TR Missile & Smart Munition Programs

[Cabatli_TR]

Kuzgun modular missile family types in accordance to propulsion;

• Solid fuel rocket motor
• Turbojet engine powered
• Glide missile

Kuzgun modular missile family types in accordance to seeker technology;

• IIR seeker
• Semi-active laser seeker
• MMW seeker

 

[Yasar_TR]

Very good interview with the Head of TÜBİTAK-Sage.
I was especially moved by two comments:
1. Ramjet engine and missile test to be carried out next year.
2. Bozdogan based Turkish RAM system.
Ramjet missile research will lead the way to our homegrown Meteor missile. Beauty of this engine is that as it uses fuel sparingly, until the missile is in it’s terminal phase. Then the full power is engaged to give the target no room to escape. (Almost all a2a missiles with solid fuel, exhaust their fuel long before they are at their terminal stage, unless they are dual pulse). Natural outcome of the ramjet engine is Scramjet (Supersonic Compression Ramjet) engine. This engine will open the road to hypersonic missiles.
If we are to fulfil the duties of CWIS, with our Gokdeniz, there is a gap between Gokdeniz and G40. The Bozdogan based RAM defence system will be as good as RAM block 2 if not better.

 

[Hexciter]

Under the light of the informations given by Mr. Gürcan Okumuş;

Turkish navy area and missile defence layers will be established as following:

• Bozdogan (modified with bigger rocket motor): Very short range missile defence
• Gökdoğan (modified with bigger rocket motor): Short/Medium range RAM Blk-2 equivalent
• G40: Medium range(40km) Medium Altitude(12km) ESSM-2 equivalent
• Hisar-Rf Medium range(50+km) High Altitude(~18-20km) Air defence
• Siper Long range High Altitude Area Air Defence (~150km)

Bro;
Bozdoğan is already a RAM Block 2 equivalent given its size
Gökdoğan will be a NASAMS, Mica, CAMM equivalent
G-40 will be a NASAMS-ER, CAMM-ER, ESSM equivalent

 

[Cabatli_TR]

Bro;
Bozdoğan is already a RAM Block 2 equivalent given its size
Gökdoğan will be a NASAMS, Mica, CAAM equivalent
G-40 will be a NASAMS-ER, CAMM-ER, ESSM equivalent

Bozdogan and Gökdoğan missiles and their modified bigger rocket motors are what Gürcan Okumuş stated in interview bro but their area of usage will be like you said.

 

[Hexciter]

Bozdogan and Gökdoğan missiles and their modified bigger rocket motors are what Gürcan Okumuş stated in interview bro but their area of usage will be like you said.

I re-read the statements in original.
Only bigger engined one is G-40.
He talks about re-engining, and then introduces G-40. In the following, he talks about Gökdoğan and Bozdoğan without mentioning bigger engines.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

I re-read the statements in original.
Only bigger engined one is G-40.
He talks about re-engining, and then introduces G-40. In the following, he talks about Gökdoğan and Bozdoğan without mentioning bigger engines.

Yes, you are right bro. I corrected the summarize.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

Gürcan Okumuş highlighted some details about EDAS;

• The EDAS System can be used with air defense missiles as well as for launching cruise missiles and guided bombs from the ground. A vision roadmap study on EDAS technology has been prepared by TÜBİTAK SAGE. This roadmap includes air defense missiles and launching systems, especially in relation to ship air defense, from self-protection to regional air defense. In addition, we see the ammunition and launch systems that can perform a precise guided attack on the land from a distance of 150 km on this road map.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

I hope we don't see two separate VLS for different missiles. Main contractor of Siper program is Tubitak SAGE and they are working together with Roketsan in many missile programs so i think EDAS is the new name of MIDAS VLS

 

[Cabatli_TR]

Tubitak SAGE's land based Göktuğ SAM system (Hisar-G) NASAMS equivalent

• Bozdogan with bigger rocket motor
• Gökdoğan with bigger rocket motor

 

[Yasar_TR]

Very good interview with the Head of TÜBİTAK-Sage.
I was especially moved by two comments:
1. Ramjet engine and missile test to be carried out next year.
2. Bozdogan based Turkish RAM system.
Ramjet missile research will lead the way to our homegrown Meteor missile. Beauty of this engine is that as it uses fuel sparingly, until the missile is in it’s terminal phase. Then the full power is engaged to give the target no room to escape. (Almost all a2a missiles with solid fuel, exhaust their fuel long before they are at their terminal stage, unless they are dual pulse). Natural outcome of the ramjet engine is Scramjet (Supersonic Compression Ramjet) engine. This engine will open the road to hypersonic missiles.
If we are to fulfil the duties of CWIS, with our Gokdeniz, there is a gap between Gokdeniz and G40. The Bozdogan based RAM defence system will be as good as RAM block 2 if not better.

Another important point that needs to be stressed about the Scramjet engined hypersonic missiles is the fact that during the last stage of it‘s flight when the missile is most vulnerable to Air-Defence systems, it can increase it’s speed up to higher hypersonic (8-10mach) velocities where it becomes impossible to intercept.
The same can be true for ramjet powered attack missiles.
Think of a SOM like missile travelling at 1-1.5 Mach to it‘s target; Then It speeds up to 4 Mach, 30km before it hits the target. It will leave 15-20seconds for the AD system to react. That too will be so difficult to intercept.

 

[Fuzuli NL]

Please replace “skyscraper” with “Gökdoğan”, “war title” with “warhead”, “raven” with “Kuzgun”
What’s “Ky abbrevation stands for in Raven-Ky?
What do you mean by “Sikh”? Those ones in India?

You proofreading devil you!
Change your moniker to Hawkeye!

 

[Hexciter]

You proofreading devil you!
Change your moniker to Hawkeye!

It’s done Sir!
“Iowa Hawkeyes”

 

[Cabatli_TR]

"TozKoparan" refers "speed" to me. It is something like "passed like a strong wind and took off the dust" so this name is giving some clue about its specifications. I believe new missile will be powerful and faster enough to deserve this name. To make it more powerful, we need a new propulsion system apart from solid fuel

Mr Gürcan Okumuş stated that they have developed Ramjet and are going to test domestic liquid RAMJET on a missile by using SAGE's supersonic test infrastructure next year. Under the lights of these speeches, I believe TozKoparan will be the new name of RAMJET missile.

The missile having Liquid Ramjet propulsion:

• Brahmos supersonic missile, @Nilgiri
• Russian P800 Oniks/Yakhont

Mr Gürcan Okumuş stated that SCRAMJET is new advanced target of Tübitak SAGE and they have started planning to build hypersonic wind tunnel infrastructure.

The missile having Scramjet propulsion:

• Russian Zircon

 

[Cabatli_TR]

Mr Gürcan Okumuş statment about EDAS VLS: "We also see ammunition and launch systems that can make a precision guided attack on land at a distance of 150 km on ships in this road map."

 

[dustdevil]

"TozKoparan" refers "speed" to me. It is something like "passed like a strong wind and took off the dust" so this name is giving some clue about its specifications. I believe new missile will be powerful and faster enough to deserve this name. To make it more powerful, we need a new propulsion system apart from solid fuel

Mr Gürcan Okumuş stated that they have developed Ramjet and are going to test domestic liquid RAMJET on a missile by using SAGE's supersonic test infrastructure next year. Under the lights of these speeches, I believe TozKoparan will be the new name of RAMJET missile.

The missile having Liquid Ramjet propulsion:

• Brahmos supersonic missile, @Nilgiri
• Russian P800 Oniks/Yakhont

Mr Gürcan Okumuş stated that SCRAMJET is new advanced target of Tübitak SAGE and they have started planning to build hypersonic wind tunnel infrastructure.

The missile having Scramjet propulsion:

• Russian Zircon

“Toz” is an old Turkish bow term:

Türk yaylarının boyu 90-134 cm’dir. Kurulmamış haldeki profili yayın savaş, hedef veya menzil yayı olmasına göre değişir. Yayın tipi de yüzey bitiminin nasıl olacağını belirler. Menzil yayları “toz” denilen huş ağacı kabuğu ile kaplanırdı. Bu şekilde, yay atıştan önce ısıtılarak “hazırlanırdı”. “Tımar vermek” denilen bu işlemde yay özel sandıkları içinde, bir fırının üst katlarındaki odalarda dört gün kadar bekletilirdi. Yay bu şekilde nemini yavaşça kaybederek sertleşir ve yay kollarının da ağırlığı azalır (kolların hafiflemesi, daha yüksek verim demektir). Çekiş gücünün artması ile yayın performansı çarpıcı biçimde artar. Savaş yayları ise, uygun olmayan hava koşullarından korumak için, at sağrısından elde edilen ince, esnek ve dayanıklı deri ile kaplanırdı. Yayın deri kaplaması ayrıca “sandaloz revgânı” denilen özel bir yağ karışımı ile izole edilerek korunurdu (Yücel, 1999).

Turkish bows are 90-134 cm in length. The unset profile of the bow depends on whether it is a combat, target or range bow. The type of bow also determines how the surface finish will be. Range type bows are covered with birch bark called “toz”. In this way, the bow would be "prepared" by heating it before shooting. In this process called "grooming", the bow was kept in special chests, in rooms on the upper floors of a bakery for four days. In this way, the bow slowly loses its moisture and hardens and the weight of the bow arms decreases (the lighter the arms, the higher efficiency). With the increase in the pulling power, the performance of the bow increases dramatically. Combat bows, on the other hand, were covered with thin, flexible and durable leather obtained from horse rump to protect it from unsuitable weather conditions. The leather covering of the bow was also protected by isolating it with a special oil mixture called “sandaloz revganı” (Yücel, 1999).

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Saadettin-Onat/publication/303910895_Turkler'de_Yay_Yapimi_ve_Agac_Kullanimi/links/575c6bd708ae9a9c95573df9/Tuerklerde-Yay-Yapimi-ve-Agac-Kullanimi.pdf

So a launcher mechanism that is strong comes to mind if used literally, but could also relate to other things if they refer to the strongest archer nick named Tozkoparan.

 

[Anmdt]

Mr Gürcan Okumuş statment about EDAS VLS: "We also see ammunition and launch systems that can make a precision guided attack on land at a distance of 150 km on ships in this road map."


View attachment 20836

Definitely a game changer, note it will possibly be quad-packed or beyond smoothly, thanks to the soft/cold launch system. if they could make fir missile in a 240 mm * 240mm canister, it may result in 3x3 in a single VLS tube.
Spare 8 tubes for land missions: 8 * 9= 72 missiles with different kind of seekers and launch mode.

With this plan even 40 Cells provide a great firepower in a mixed configuration:

• quad-packed G40:

8 cells 32 missiles point defense​

• quad-packed modified gökdoğan:

8 cells 32 missiles for various needs of rapid response against hypersonic missiles​

• single packed Hisar-N , Hisar-U & Siper :

16 cells 16 missiles for various other long-range engagement​

• 9-packed Kuzgun;

8 cells 72 missiles for surface&land engagement.​

• In addition to:

1 x CIWS launcher with a new kind of missile ,and/or​

1/2x Gun based CIWS optionally with guided shells​

“Toz” is an old Turkish bow term:

Türk yaylarının boyu 90-134 cm’dir. Kurulmamış haldeki profili yayın savaş, hedef veya menzil yayı olmasına göre değişir. Yayın tipi de yüzey bitiminin nasıl olacağını belirler. Menzil yayları “toz” denilen huş ağacı kabuğu ile kaplanırdı. Bu şekilde, yay atıştan önce ısıtılarak “hazırlanırdı”. “Tımar vermek” denilen bu işlemde yay özel sandıkları içinde, bir fırının üst katlarındaki odalarda dört gün kadar bekletilirdi. Yay bu şekilde nemini yavaşça kaybederek sertleşir ve yay kollarının da ağırlığı azalır (kolların hafiflemesi, daha yüksek verim demektir). Çekiş gücünün artması ile yayın performansı çarpıcı biçimde artar. Savaş yayları ise, uygun olmayan hava koşullarından korumak için, at sağrısından elde edilen ince, esnek ve dayanıklı deri ile kaplanırdı. Yayın deri kaplaması ayrıca “sandaloz revgânı” denilen özel bir yağ karışımı ile izole edilerek korunurdu (Yücel, 1999).

Turkish bows are 90-134 cm in length. The unset profile of the bow depends on whether it is a combat, target or range bow. The type of bow also determines how the surface finish will be. Range type bows are covered with birch bark called “toz”. In this way, the bow would be "prepared" by heating it before shooting. In this process called "grooming", the bow was kept in special chests, in rooms on the upper floors of a bakery for four days. In this way, the bow slowly loses its moisture and hardens and the weight of the bow arms decreases (the lighter the arms, the higher efficiency). With the increase in the pulling power, the performance of the bow increases dramatically. Combat bows, on the other hand, were covered with thin, flexible and durable leather obtained from horse rump to protect it from unsuitable weather conditions. The leather covering of the bow was also protected by isolating it with a special oil mixture called “sandaloz revganı” (Yücel, 1999).

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Saadettin-Onat/publication/303910895_Turkler'de_Yay_Yapimi_ve_Agac_Kullanimi/links/575c6bd708ae9a9c95573df9/Tuerklerde-Yay-Yapimi-ve-Agac-Kullanimi.pdf

So a launcher mechanism that is strong comes to mind.

And toz-koparan is nickname of a guy who had broken "Toz" several times holding the record for maximum distance & probably fastest shot.

 

[Khagan1923]

I think it means speed. It’s probably the project name for Ramjet Missile/Scramjet Missile.

Also anyone else realize how the timetable has moved forward several years.
Just 1 year ago Tübitak said Ramjet is at least a decade away for Turkey now the same institution is getting ready to test their first Ramjet next year.

How interesting. Who knows what kind of projects are in advanced stages but just kept in secrecy.

 

[dustdevil]

And toz-koparan is nickname of a guy who had broken "Toz" several times holding the record for maximum distance & probably fastest shot.

I edited my post and mentioned the guy again before seeing this part, sorry about this

 

[Anmdt]

I think it means speed. It’s probably the project name for Ramjet Missile/Scramjet Missile.

Also anyone else realize how the timetable has moved forward several years.
Just 1 year ago Tübitak said Ramjet is at least a decade away for Turkey now the same institution is getting ready to test their first Ramjet next year.

How interesting. Who knows what kind of projects are in advanced stages but just kept in secrecy.

As a foundation is being built, both development costs are reduced and it has been accelerated, also allocated money started to be invested in more strategic infa-structures.
We are talking about a 20+ years of background and installment spent to be at this position. Some people thinks the rabbit comes out of the magicians hat but in fact it is bred and grown in the farm and then placed in the hat for the audience.
This is why a culture and experience in the business is vital for companies.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Gurcan Okumus’s statement:

”TÜBİTAK SAGE geçmişten günümüze yeni teknolojilerde lider olmak için çalışmıştır. Açıkçası geçmişte bu ramjetli bir füze de bizim büyük hayalimizdi. Ama şu an RAMJET teknolojisinde geldiğimiz noktada artık SCRAMJET’i yeni ileri hedefimiz olarak görüyoruz.”

Clearly says, considering where we are with ramjet technology, our aim now is no longer Ramjet, but Scramjet.
This is very encouraging as both these engines will put Turkey in an elite class of countries that has this technology and can utilise it. This is not just a game changer technology. But a technology that will make it’s user country close to invincible, like having nuclear deterrent. It will give us more clout, make anyone contemplating attacking us, think twice before doing that.