TR Missile & Smart Munition Programs

[UkroTurk]

$20000 was reported.

noway. AFAIK Laser guided CİRİT costs app 20k.

 

[Zafer]

We need to make it clear that Kemankeş will come in several different sizes so there will be varying prices.

 

[Heartbang]

Although, I am wondering what kind of targets it will be used against with such low payload at such long range.

SAM radars,for a start.

 

[Yasar_TR]

What turbine it uses?

38 lbf IL170 turbojet engine of IdeaLab.

Meet Baykar’s jet powered KEMANKES loitering munition

Baykar's KEMANKES (Alternatively KAGEM) jet powered loitering munition was revealed for the first time to the public in TEKNOFEST 2023

en.defenceturk.net

This is an ingenious missile.
I do have reservations on the prices quoted here. It has to be more expensive than suggested.

EDIT

Although the maximum range is given as 200+km, it’s LOS communication range is 50km. Hence it is a 50Km range loitering ammunition/missile.

 

[Zafer]

An equivalent power hobby engine is $5500 in the US. There are several engines on this link.

AMT Netherlands - Dreamworks Model Products - #1 in Radio Controlled Jets and Accessories

dreamworksrc.com

 

[Yasar_TR]

For manned systems like fighter aircrafts, there is no restriction on ranges. But for UAVs and missiles on their own or carried by UAVs, there are restrictions regarding MTCR.
In this context, the MTCR places particular focus on rockets and unmanned aerial vehicles capable of delivering a payload of at least 500 kilograms (1,100 lb) to a range of at least 300 kilometres (190 mi) and on equipment, software, and technology for such systems.
The MTCR divides weapons into two categories. Exports of Category I systems, including cruise missiles and unmanned aircraft that have a range of at least 300 kilometers and the ability to carry a payload of at least 500 kilograms, are subject to a “strong presumption of denial.”
The revised U.S. policy will reinterpret how the MTCR applies to drones that travel at speeds under 800 kilometers per hour. Category II systems although are allowed as they cover missiles or aerial vehicles with less than 300km range irrespective of their weights there are still certain restrictions on them on a case by case basis.

So, technically, if TB2 has a LOS range of 150km and a Kemankes can deliver a bomb 200+ km away, then it is in violation of the MTCR. We can manufacture it. But should not export it. But with 150km LOS range of TB2 and a 50km communication range of Kemankes it is exportable.

 

[Oublious]

Let's see if we can arm our TB-2s with this.

Although, I am wondering what kind of targets it will be used against with such low payload at such long range.

It does not have to destroy a target, make it burst or not operational is enough like Radar systems.

 

[Oublious]

For manned systems like fighter aircrafts, there is no restriction on ranges. But for UAVs and missiles on their own or carried by UAVs, there are restrictions regarding MTCR.
In this context, the MTCR places particular focus on rockets and unmanned aerial vehicles capable of delivering a payload of at least 500 kilograms (1,100 lb) to a range of at least 300 kilometres (190 mi) and on equipment, software, and technology for such systems.
The MTCR divides weapons into two categories. Exports of Category I systems, including cruise missiles and unmanned aircraft that have a range of at least 300 kilometers and the ability to carry a payload of at least 500 kilograms, are subject to a “strong presumption of denial.”
The revised U.S. policy will reinterpret how the MTCR applies to drones that travel at speeds under 800 kilometers per hour. Category II systems although are allowed as they cover missiles or aerial vehicles with less than 300km range irrespective of their weights there are still certain restrictions on them on a case by case basis.

So, technically, if TB2 has a LOS range of 150km and a Kemankes can deliver a bomb 200+ km away, then it is in violation of the MTCR. We can manufacture it. But should not export it. But with 150km LOS range of TB2 and a 50km communication range of Kemankes it is exportable.

What is the difference shooting a cruisemissile from a figther and a UAV? If ther is no differences why are you compiling the range of TB2 and Kemankes? You can do that to F16 and the max range of a cruisemissile will be 50km.

 

[Yasar_TR]

What is the difference shooting a cruisemissile from a figther and a UAV? If ther is no differences why are you compiling the range of TB2 and Kemankes? You can do that to F16 and the max range of a cruisemissile will be 50km.

Please read the MTCR original and revised conditions first, then ask this question. Manned fighter planes (f16) are not covered by MTCR. An unmanned armed air vehicle is covered under MTCR.

 

[Trakya_forever]

Kemankeş has a 6 Kgs warhead. It is not so small. Lancet with 3 Kgs warhead destroys/damages lots of targets.

And 50-60-70k USD is not too much. You will destroy much more expensive vehicles, guns, radars etc with it.

 

[UkroTurk]

How does Kemankeş lock on target? Before launch or after launch? Because 250km range is too much . TB2 cant identify the target from 250km.

İt is not an antiship missile which flies over the empty see and search a ship.

 

[Afif]

How does Kemankeş lock on target? Before launch or after launch? Because 250km range is too much . TB2 cant identify the target from 250km.

Its range is practically 50km.
It is a loitering ammunition with endurance of 1 hour.
So it can loiter and hunt for potential target in suspected Area. (Or it can be launched against fixed targets)

 

[Trakya_forever]

Its two way data link range is 50 km for now. Soon it will be 100 km.

 

[TheInsider]

Its range is practically 50km.
It is a loitering ammunition with endurance of 1 hour.
So it can loiter and hunt for potential target in suspected Area. (Or it can be launched against fixed targets)

No. It has ATA(Automatic target acquisition) mode for targets beyond 50km.
It is a loitering munition with man-in-the-loop capability within a radius of 50 (soon to be 100km). Outside that range it is a cruise missile (similar to SOM) with ATA capability.

 

[AzeriTank]

Let's see if we can arm our TB-2s with this.

Although, I am wondering what kind of targets it will be used against with such low payload at such long range.

If 3kg lancet able to go through the Leo2a6 turret, you imagine what 6kg warhead could do.. we talked about it just a day ago,
Also, another advantage of it, it will process the video in it and then send it, which th2 used to do it, means you can send many of the at the same time

 

[Trakya_forever]

According to Baykar, in time, there will be variants of Kemankeş. There will be bigger ones and highly possible land-launched versions. I think, at the end of this year, first version will be ready for serial production.

 

[uçuyorum]

One thing visible from Kemankeş video that I hadn't thought of is since it's a turbojet cruise missile it can fly close to surface, which makes it even more useful

 

[Afif]

No. It has ATA(Automatic target acquisition) mode for targets beyond 50km.
It is a loitering munition with man-in-the-loop capability within a radius of 50 (soon to be 100km). Outside that range it is a cruise missile (similar to SOM) with ATA capability.

Of course, with its ATA it can always engage targets of opportunity.

However, when data link is lost you simply don't know what it is hitting nor you have any control over it. (I don't see any point in letting it loose after 50km, unless you launched it to a predermined target.)

But with SOM you have the data link that extend as far as its range. Which enables your situational awareness and control until the last moment.

Anyway, I should stop talking about KEMANKES. We are not gonna get this with our TB-2s anyway. As @Yasar previously pointed out about MTCR restriction. (Even though BD is not part of it, TR is)

 

[Brokengineer]

It seems from the footage that kemankes range is very much depends on altitude, given initial velocity, it immediately lose altitude to gain speed to level itself. Considering its capability to hit targets from outside of many sam batteries' effective range, it is a strategic asset.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Of course, with its ATA it can always engage targets of opportunity.

However, when data link is lost you simply don't know what it is hitting nor you have any control over it. (I don't see any point in letting it loose after 50km, unless you launched it to a predermined target.)

But with SOM you have the data link that extend as far as its range. Which enables your situational awareness and control until the last moment.

Anyway, I should stop talking about KEMANKES. We are not gonna get this with our TB-2s anyway. As @Yasar previously pointed out about MTCR restriction. (Even though BD is not part of it, TR is)

Kemankes missile has some form of AI which controls the targeting system. But the missile is specifically made to be controlled from ground. It has a command system control via the TB2 that launched it. It has 36x zoom camera that relays ground info to command centre.
We know that our and Ukraine’s TB2s have a LOS range of 300km. Add to this the prospective 100km range, the missile will have a total range of 400km.

quote:

The Kemankeş missile has a declared range of "more than 200 km" and a flight duration (barrage) of up to 1 hour. The cruising flight speed is 360 km/ h, the maximum speed is up to 720 km/ h, the ceiling is up to 6000 m. The missile has command guidance and is equipped with an electron-optical guidance head with a wide-field stable television camera with 36x magnification, combined with a laser rangefinder, and a two-way data transmission channel. The effective control range is up to 50 km (apparently from a carrier drone used as a repeater), with plans to increase to 100 km. The operator is capable of both aiming the missile before hitting the target, and capturing the target, after which the missile follows the target in autonomous mode.

Unquote.

New Turkish small-sized cruise missile Bayraktar Kemankeş

The Turkish Baykar Group on April 27, 2023, at the TEKNOFEST 2023 aviation and industrial show that opened at Istanbul Ataturk Airport, officially presented a new small-sized (rather even miniature) Bayraktar Kemankeş aviation cruise missile (also called barrage ammunition), designed for use...

vpk.name

export version of these will be 150km range TB2 with up to 100km communication range Kemankes.
I can’t see Baykar manufacturing this missile if they can’t export it.

Even in reduced trange as @Brokengineer has said it; it is a strategic weapon.