TR Missile & Smart Munition Programs

Anmdt

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Ideally an earth observation satellite, a drone or some kind of radar locates the target and delivers location information to the missile using sat-com or other transmitter. Ideally the information is updated frequently until the missile arrives at the target location. The missile may or may not have enough time to maneuver but it would increase the odds if the missile has multiple warheads.
Too much assumption of ideality makes it quite difficult to work things out in the field. If it were, and ideality solved all the problems, anyone with an observation satellite and a communications satellite could have made such missiles.

First of all, LEO Earth observation satellites have passes (once in 1-2 days) and can be obscured by clouds, so it had better be a radar with a SAR payload and a high amount of them. Then there is the matter of minimum communication latency, i.e. not waiting for the satellite to be in position to communicate with a centre in Anatolia.

Then you have to process the data and make sense of it, check that the target is real and not an ally.

Finally, all of this has to work seamlessly together so that the observation satellite calculates the position correctly, passes it on to the ground station, then it is put into the data link and sent out to the communications satellite and from there to the missile.

Either way, it takes a solid processing and communications capability with a set of satellites to keep an eye on the target for at least minutes without interruption, and to calculate/estimate its trajectory in the background to narrow the window for the missile so that active guidance (RF or IIR or TV or hybrid) can be successful. Most of the problem here is how to get the missile to the terminal phase, where it targets the ship's location and captures in the narrow window of the seeker. A ship travelling at 15 knots will travel about 5 miles either way. And a precise active guidance seems to be a must for a decent PoK.​
 

Zafer

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Too much assumption of ideality makes it quite difficult to work things out in the field. If it were, and ideality solved all the problems, anyone with an observation satellite and a communications satellite could have made such missiles.

First of all, LEO Earth observation satellites have passes (once in 1-2 days) and can be obscured by clouds, so it had better be a radar with a SAR payload and a high amount of them. Then there is the matter of minimum communication latency, i.e. not waiting for the satellite to be in position to communicate with a centre in Anatolia.

Then you have to process the data and make sense of it, check that the target is real and not an ally.

Finally, all of this has to work seamlessly together so that the observation satellite calculates the position correctly, passes it on to the ground station, then it is put into the data link and sent out to the communications satellite and from there to the missile.

Either way, it takes a solid processing and communications capability with a set of satellites to keep an eye on the target for at least minutes without interruption, and to calculate/estimate its trajectory in the background to narrow the window for the missile so that active guidance (RF or IIR or TV or hybrid) can be successful. Most of the problem here is how to get the missile to the terminal phase, where it targets the ship's location and captures in the narrow window of the seeker. A ship travelling at 15 knots will travel about 5 miles either way. And a precise active guidance seems to be a must for a decent PoK.​
Still highly possible and this also underlines the importance of having a network of LEO satellites with a rich set of features. Drones can possibly work in the same manner. There is a good likelihood of success when you practice and prepare well.
 

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Still highly possible and this also underlines the importance of having a network of LEO satellites with a rich set of features. Drones can possibly work in the same manner. There is a good likelihood of success when you practice and prepare well.

Enlight me a monent here for all the turkish brother . Would such endeavour would consume an immense time and money in which , present a considerable challenges in this current turkish technological envelope and financial constrain ??
In other words... Unrealistic for a present pressing situation ??
Much thanks for the opportunities here ...
 

Zafer

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Enlight me a monent here for all the turkish brother . Would such endeavour would consume an immense time and money in which , present a considerable challenges in this current turkish technological envelope and financial constrain ??
In other words... Unrealistic for a present pressing situation ??
Much thanks for the opportunities here ...
Even drones can be used in the same manner with today's capabilities with slightly less accuracy. You remember a drone footage of a Russian ship in the Black Sea taken from 80 km distance. You can use drone based optical and SAR capabilities to locate a target and feed the information to the missile in a continuous manner. The missile then maneuvers slightly towards the calculated location of collision. You can probably do away with maneuvering if the target is moving in a regular pattern. Satellites with multiple payload capabilities can be swarmed at low altitude. It will probably take several more years to establish such a network but certainly doable. If you have a clue why this should not work please share your insight.
 
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BalkanTurk90

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Ready for Acceptance Tests??
Didnt they complete those tests in 2022/23 and were in mass production ? 😡😡
Every defence project have been posponed 😡😡
 

Sanchez

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Ready for Acceptance Tests??
Didnt they complete those tests in 2022/23 and were in mass production ? 😡😡
Every defence project have been posponed 😡😡
HvKK procurement is a tad different. This is not the first time these missiles were tested, and i believe they were tested with live warheads before as well. In Idef 2023, first LRIP production was signed for 25 of each. I believe this test is part of the acceptance tests of this batch. If live warhead tests are also succesful, testing will continue. Not sure about the timeframe for testing because that batch was to be delivered in 2025, not 2024.
 
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Ravager

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Even drones can be used in the same manner with today's capabilities with slightly less accuracy. You remember a drone footage of a Russian ship in the Black Sea taken from 80 km distance. You can use drone based optical and SAR capabilities to locate a target and feed the information to the missile in a continuous manner. The missile then maneuvers slightly towards the calculated location of collision. You can probably do away with maneuvering if the target is moving in a regular pattern. Satellites with multiple payload capabilities can be swarmed at low altitude. It will probably take several more years to establish such a network but certainly doable. If you have a clue why this should not work please share your insight.

Yes , i am aware of such strike . , i am aware such a potential capabilities . But there is still a differences between drone and mach 5 velocitiies . You need a very robust networking which in turn demanded a robust infrastructures for it ...and those satelites won't come in cheaps !! while drone flying requires a fuels to burn and ballons are vulnerables .
It is doable but to an extent ...
 
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Ravager

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Türkiye is actually very close to acquiring the capability to launch low orbit satellites.

On what cost ? And how many it would be needed ?? Sure , turkey will need it at some point of time out of neccesaity . But , i reckon not today ...not at the present turkey economy ...
You have to be smarter and more effecient in spending
 

Zafer

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On what cost ? And how many it would be needed ?? Sure , turkey will need it at some point of time out of neccesaity . But , i reckon not today ...not at the present turkey economy ...
When you make them with domestic means you can make them at a fraction of the commercial market cost. Remember just a couple days ago Türkiye started the making of a bunch of Navy vessels with one decision and this year's defense budget is increased by quite a bit. I think it should take about 3 years to start deploying such satellites. Until that time we have the drones with their sharper eye that they are being equipped with this year.
 
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Nutuk

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While we talk about smart missiles comes to my mind Gürcan Okumus, we still do not know what happened to this guy.

Is it so easy to sacrifice someone important like that, we have very important project ongoing: Kuzgun, Gokhan, gezgin and hoooop the guy leading the projects get wasted just like that. Is there no one responsible in the country, to explain why and how they waste a good person just like that.

Are we all that numb that we do not even ask?
 

Zafer

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While we talk about smart missiles comes to my mind Gürcan Okumus, we still do not know what happened to this guy.

Is it so easy to sacrifice someone important like that, we have very important project ongoing: Kuzgun, Gokhan, gezgin and hoooop the guy leading the projects get wasted just like that. Is there no one responsible in the country, to explain why and how they waste a good person just like that.

Are we all that numb that we do not even ask?
If he were in China he would disappear for good. There was a lack of news coming from SAGE lately. I think he appeared in a YouTube video after he signed off.
 

IC3M@N FX

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silly question: Why doesn't BVRAAM use a hybrid seeker that can switch on both radar and infrared as soon as it is in sight? Basically a dual bearing running parallel against the enemy aircraft.

Doesn't that make much more sense? With a hybrid BVR infrared/radar seeker, electronic jamming and decoys could be better countered.

Furthermore, it is not possible to train the seeker in general in the form of an image algorithm of different types of fighter aircraft in 3D in all perspectives.
That the search head also focuses on the silhouette of the aircraft in real time, as a third option that would run in parallel.
Smartphones also have facial recognition for portrait photos or group photos, because the internal software is trained to recognize faces. Can't this generally be transferred to weapons technology in the in the image processor form of seeker heads?

In principle, when the BVR Hybrid Missile is launched in the following mode.
Radar: True /Lock On
Infrared: False /Standby
3d image Silhouette: False /Standby

As soon as the target is in sight jumps to the mode
Radar: True /Lock On
Infrared: True -> Searching Heat Signature -> Lock On
3D Image Silhouette: True -> Searching -> Lock On
 
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Guys, off topics were moved to the thread below. Please continue discussions regarding air defence developments in the thread below. :)

Thank you!

 

BaburKhan

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In my Opinion Tayfun is comparable with PrSM and it seems to be with similar Seeker Technology(RF, Radar, IIR) more Advanced than ATACMS.

 

BaburKhan

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US Army conducts ‘static' test with ramjet for future Precision Strike Missile
by Ashley Roque May 13, 2022, 16:35 PM

Advancements in designing and testing a potential ramjet for the US Army Precision Strike Missile (PrSM) could extend the weapon's range up to 1,000 kilometers, and a...

LRMF-Graphic-1920x1080-1-1070x602.png




Is a Ramjet or Scramjet Propulsion for Tayfun or Cenk possible ?
 

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