TR Air Defence Programs

[Afif]

Booster-laden quad-packed ESSM proposal.

This is most likely what the Hisar-D / Sapan will eventually look like.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1748451140360888593

I think this is an adhoc solution from RTX to offer point defense solution against hypersonics. However, chances are with the integration of dual packed PAC-3 MSE with AEGIS L&M will beat them to it.

 

[uçuyorum]

Booster-laden quad-packed ESSM proposal.

This is most likely what the Hisar-D / Sapan will eventually look like.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1748451140360888593

Most important point seems to be that as seekers get better, they go all in on hit to kill, reducing need for larger missiles

 

[Heartbang]

I think this is an adhoc solution from RTX to offer point defense solution against hypersonics. However, chances are with the integration of dual packed PAC-3 MSE with AEGIS L&M will beat them to it.

ESSM itself has evolved into a much more capable missile than anticipated. It is the example when you look up "mission creep"

There are several EU naval platforms who just use ESSM's for general air defence purposes.
Bet you'll see this missile used for that purpose as soon as it becomes available.

But as you've said, the US navy will pick PAC-3 with AEGIS due to the sole reason of manufacturing numbers (twice the annual production capacity compared to the SM-6's.).

 

[UkroTurk]

A crazy idea came to my mind. Siper, Sapan , Hisar whatever it is called. . Instead of putting 4 AD missiles With 4 boosters in a canister, "putting two AD missiles vertically then making it 8 packed." In this way, there will be 8 missiles in one canister.!!!

I know, Now you will say: How could you hot launch two missiles in a row? When you launch the missile onnthe top, the upper missile will burn the bottom one.
Okay right. But how many missiles are being launched when there is one threat and target? AFAIK two missiles are being launched on to one rapid and low flying target. 2ESSM per threat!

In that case, you could send two vertically connected missiles to a single target simultaneously.
The bottom missile ignites first (Like Booster) upper missile waits ,after the launch when they reach a certain altitude, they separate each other and the second missile ignites itself ( this is like separation of Booster but earlier)
If increasing the range of the missile with a booster is not very important, but sending more than one AD missile to the same target is more important, someone might consider this. Yes, I'm thinking of something crazy.

İnstead of a booster connection, connecting with the second AD missile!! Launching them together!

@Yasar @Anmdt
@dBSPL

 

[boredaf]

A crazy idea came to my mind. Siper, Sapan , Hisar whatever it is called. . Instead of putting 4 AD missiles With 4 boosters in a canister, "putting two AD missiles vertically then making it 8 packed." In this way, there will be 8 missiles in one canister.!!!

I know, Now you will say: How could you hot launch two missiles in a row? When you launch the missile onnthe top, the upper missile will burn the bottom one.
Okay right. But how many missiles are being launched when there is one threat and target? AFAIK two missiles are being launched on to one rapid and low flying target. 2ESSM per threat!

In that case, you could send two vertically connected missiles to a single target simultaneously.
The bottom missile ignites first (Like Booster) upper missile waits ,after the launch when they reach a certain altitude, they separate each other and the second missile ignites itself ( this is like separation of Booster but earlier)
If increasing the range of the missile with a booster is not very important, but sending more than one AD missile to the same target is more important, someone might consider this. Yes, I'm thinking of something crazy.

İnstead of a booster connection, connecting with the second AD missile!! Launching them together!

@Yasar @Anmdt
@dBSPL

If I write what I really think about this idea, I'd probably get banned; so I'll just say this isn't a crazy idea mate, it is simply nonsensical, laws of physics alone make this a terrible idea.

 

[UkroTurk]

Usually at First people laugh then ...Anyway i am neither a scientist nor a rocket engineer.

 

[TheInsider]

PAC-3 MSE is a great missile. IMHO it is the best endo-atmospheric interceptor. The only weakness of the Patriot system was its radar. It is no surprise the US navy wants PAC-3 missiles on its warships.

 

[Afif]

PAC-3 MSE is a great missile. IMHO it is the best endo-atmospheric interceptor. The only weakness of the Patriot system was its radar. It is no surprise the US navy wants PAC-3 missiles on its warships.

Well, patriot batteries will get superb LTAMDS now.

 

[TheInsider]

Well, patriot batteries will get LTAMDS now.

That is why I wrote "was".

 

[UkroTurk]

I recall that the SAPAN project was titled as 'Surface to Air Defense Missile Project' over 5-6 years ago. Currently, it covers the Fire Control System developed by Aselsan (that rumored to control both ESSM and Hisar-D) and the Missile System developed by Roketsan. It was originally a PMADS (that covers any Point Defense missile, from one perspective) system and was initially in the form of a RAM missile. The name was later allocated for the ESSM equivalent, which has caused some confusion.

Up up up

 

[KhanOfEurasia]

ASELSAN's GÜRZ Hybrid AD System Joins World Defence Show | TURDEF

ASELSAN’s combined gun and missile-based mobile solution for low-altitude air defence, GÜRZ, has joined the World Defense Show exhibition in Saudi Arabia.

www.turdef.com

 

[Aqerdf]

C-UAS exercise:

 

[Sanchez]

C-UAS exercise:

Grandpa in action.

 

[UkroTurk]

C-UAS exercise:

Waouuvv.I didn't know.

4x 50cal turret on m113.

Butcher!!!

 

[boredaf]

Grandpa in action.

View attachment 65342

These type of systems are really making a comeback all over the world because of UAVs, whether small ones or kamikaze drones. We've also been getting Göker (I think that was the name? I can't keep up lol) as well as modernising 35mm Oerlikon's.

 

[Sanchez]

These type of systems are really making a comeback all over the world because of UAVs, whether small ones or kamikaze drones. We've also been getting Göker (I think that was the name? I can't keep up lol) as well as modernising 35mm Oerlikon's.

Certainly. But when the 65 year old M113 decides to throw a fit and breaks down when the base is under attack or if the FPVs are too fast for the hand cranked 80 year old turret, questions arise. We are not Ukraine being invaded by Russia. Number of bases we actively defend on the contact line and and on our borders are limited and this country of 90 million people should be able to build and deliver these systems in numbers instead of relying on grandpas.

 

[boredaf]

Certainly. But when the 65 year old M113 decides to throw a fit and breaks down when the base is under attack or if the FPVs are too fast for the hand cranked 80 year old turret, questions arise. We are not Ukraine being invaded by Russia. Number of bases we actively defend on the contact line and and on our borders are limited and this country of 90 million people should be able to build and deliver these systems in numbers instead of relying on grandpas.

On that, I completely agree with you.

 

[Sanchez]

Aselsan's Şahin pedestal mounted 40mm gun with ATOM, made specifically against drones, would have a lower range against drones compared to a 50 cal on paper, at I believe about 600 meters. But in reality a hand cranked quad 50 cal turret without any real optics will be effective at 500 meters at most. A solution exists and is operational in low numbers. It just needs to be built and delivered more. It can auto determine, track and engage. It can be slaved to radars on base, or operated manually from a console.

Time to act was yesterday, best next time for it is today. Iranian militias in Iraq and Syria will only be a bigger threat to our soldiers in the future and we still be relying on quad 50 cals.

 

[boredaf]

Aselsan's Şahin pedestal mounted 40mm gun with ATOM, made specifically against drones, would have a lower range against drones compared to a 50 cal on paper, at I believe about 600 meters. But in reality a hand cranked quad 50 cal turret without any real optics will be effective at 500 meters at most. A solution exists and is operational in low numbers. It just needs to be built and delivered more. It can auto determine, track and engage. It can be slaved to radars on base, or operated manually from a console.

Time to act was yesterday, best next time for it is today. Iranian militias in Iraq and Syria will only be a bigger threat to our soldiers in the future and we still be relying on quad 50 cals.

I wonder if this can be tweaked to work with Mete, which is also 40mm, instead of just 40mm grenades. That would, in theory, give it more range and targeting.

 

[Sanchez]

I wonder if this can be tweaked to work with Mete, which is also 40mm, instead of just 40mm grenades. That would, in theory, give it more range and targeting.

Aselsan touted modular structure for Şahin in the past so a more comprehensive C-UAS package they can offer to Gulf(as we'll never pay for such a thing) can be made.