Our problem is we have a limited budget. R&D takes money and time but so does finalizing a product and establishing production lines. If we spread the budget and work force too thin to make new prototypes, we won't have resources to focus on establishing enough serial production lines for those we have made. Too many companies producing redundant stuff that they won't be able to sell, especially smaller companies chasing trend with 0 idea what they are doing or what actual military requirements are. Instead they could have taken a part in helping mass production of another and have a healthier supply chain. Establishing a supply chain and creating production lines is neither cheap nor easy.
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Once the R&D of the prototypes, especially the engine prototypes, is completed, we can focus on mass production with all our strength. The challenging part is that we target the highest segment engines. Like TF-35000 and BATU.
Akıncı can not see anything with infrared or tv electro optics,on high altitute over cloud position but can engage on fixed known land targets with these iir and tv mam T and mam L ammunutions,but if she use sar radar could be engage oportunity targets with the observation of post strike situation.
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Hepdert
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This shows that we are very close to the test firing of domestic engine powered (KTJ3200) SOM missile or that it has already been done. A video might be released in a week.Strike Power of our Air Force: #SOM and #SOMJ
Long Range, High Survivability, Superior Ability
#YarınİçinYüksel
#Roketsan
KhanOfEurasia
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Is it also planned to integrate KTJ-3700 in SOM ALCM ?
KhanOfEurasia
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begturan
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We were sad that we only had M72LAW anti-tank missiles In the old days, we was even looking for RPG7
but look at today we cant even count how many guided anti tank missiles we have! Cirit, Yatagan, Karaok, Omtas families, Umtas families and others...
KhanOfEurasia
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Making a long range AA missiles benefits limited to a bit longer no escape zone due to draining energy of the missiles against low altitute defensive maneuvares of the fighters if the tracking range of nose radar of J17s is shorter than gökdoğans range ,but gökdoğan is double rocket motor and makes these advantage less prominent.
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Sorry to be a bit pedantic . But this post isn’t very explanatory of Gokdogan as it is contradictory in it self and doesn’t really explain what you are really trying to convey.
Gokdogan is a BVR air to air missile specifically produced to replace our Aim120 AMRAAM series. Unlike the Aim120 that uses dual thrust engines which gives initial high speed and then a sustain mode to the missile, our Gokdogan, if what below article is correct, apparently has a dual pulse engine which is analogous to higher spec and longer range missile performance levels. We already know that our missile has well exceeded the 100km range. The engine class Gokdogan uses is used by US and Chinese in their 200km + range a2a missiles.
Gokdogan does not have double motor.
It apparently has a dual pulse motor. This is, in a broad sense, a solid fuel propellent motor that has two sections of fuel tank whereby the missile uses first section to gain high speed and cruise towards target. Then as it‘s speed decreases and engages target it will use the fuel in the second section to give it more thrust and less chance for the target to escape, in the terminal phase.
quote:
Powered by solid fuel dual pulse rocket motor GÖKDOĞAN can travel at a speed of Mach 4.
unquote.
President ERDOĞAN Announces Successful Test of BOZDOĞAN WVR Air-to-Air Missile
On April 14, 2021, President Recep Tayyip ERDOĞAN announced that the BOZDOĞAN IIR guided within visual range (WVR) air-to-air missile developed by youth Turkish technicians and engineers under GÖKTUĞ Project has successfully destroyed its target (TUSAŞ`s ŞİMŞEK high-Speed target Drone) during...
www.defenceturkey.com
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Sorry to be a bit pedantic . But this post isn’t very explanatory of Gokdogan as it is contradictory in it self and doesn’t really explain what you are really trying to convey.
Gokdogan is a BVR air to air missile specifically produced to replace our Aim120 AMRAAM series. Unlike the Aim120 that uses dual thrust engines which gives initial high speed and then a sustain mode to the missile, our Gokdogan, if what below article is correct, apparently has a dual pulse engine which is analogous to higher spec and longer range missile performance levels. We already know that our missile has well exceeded the 100km range. The engine class Gokdogan uses is used by US and Chinese in their 200km + range a2a missiles.
Gokdogan does not have double motor.
It apparently has a dual pulse motor. This is, in a broad sense, a solid fuel propellent motor that has two sections of fuel tank whereby the missile uses first section to gain high speed and cruise towards target. Then as it‘s speed decreases and engages target it will use the fuel in the second section to give it more thrust and less chance for the target to escape, in the terminal phase.
quote:
Powered by solid fuel dual pulse rocket motor GÖKDOĞAN can travel at a speed of Mach 4.
unquote.
President ERDOĞAN Announces Successful Test of BOZDOĞAN WVR Air-to-Air Missile
On April 14, 2021, President Recep Tayyip ERDOĞAN announced that the BOZDOĞAN IIR guided within visual range (WVR) air-to-air missile developed by youth Turkish technicians and engineers under GÖKTUĞ Project has successfully destroyed its target (TUSAŞ`s ŞİMŞEK high-Speed target Drone) during...
Dual thrust vs dual pulse missile propulsion
I am trying to understand why would a dual pulse solid fuel motor provide additional range over a dual thrust motor of same weight. I’ve read many times proposals that AIM-120 should be upgraded with a dual pulse motor to extend range beyond the current AIM-120D variant. How would that work...
www.secretprojects.co.uk
Simulation: if AIM 120 had dual pulse.
What is the dual pulse:
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The Aim120 missiles are all boost+sustain mode (dual thrust) operation missiles.
AIM-120 Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missile (AMRAAM) Archives | Air & Space Forces Magazine
AMRAAM is an active, radar-guided, medium-range, supersonic air-to-air missile. It is a joint USAF-Navy follow-on to the AIM-7 Sparrow with launch-and-leave capability. The AIM-120B is an upgraded, re-programmable variant of the original missile. The AIM-120C incorporates smaller control...
www.airandspaceforces.com
There was a development work re dual pulse. But if memory serves, it only was planned to be used in Aim 260 which has boost+cruise+boost mode of operation.
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For sure. The charts i shared was the simulation: if AIM-120 were dual pulse.The Aim120 missiles are all boost+sustain mode (dual thrust) operation missiles.
AIM-120 Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missile (AMRAAM) Archives | Air & Space Forces Magazine
AMRAAM is an active, radar-guided, medium-range, supersonic air-to-air missile. It is a joint USAF-Navy follow-on to the AIM-7 Sparrow with launch-and-leave capability. The AIM-120B is an upgraded, re-programmable variant of the original missile. The AIM-120C incorporates smaller control...
There was a development work re dual pulse. But if memory serves, it only was used in Aim 260 .
I edited my post.
İnteresting thing is , delay doesn't increase range too much.
To be honest i didn't know about dual thrust. I googled it.
Dual-thrust rocket motor - Wikipedia
Then our BVR doesn't need dual pulse since it burns two different type of fuel.
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Well according to the above magazine excerpt, it has a double pulse engine.For sure. The charts i shared was the simulation: if AIM-120 were dual pulse.
I edited my post.
İnteresting thing is , delay doesn't increase range too much.
To be honest i didn't know about dual thrust. I googled it.
Dual-thrust rocket motor - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
Then our BVR doesn't need dual pulse since it burns two different type of fuel.
I would have thought like you and said it wouldn’t need a double pulse and dual thrust would have sufficed.
But apparently we have chosen a double pulse engine for our BVR missile.
The big deal with dual thrust is, if you have thrust vector nozzles like Hisar, then you can make maneuvers you couldn't really do at terminal stages otherwise or against targets that are already close which will require higher angular velocity for turns. That being said, from what I understand especially longer range missiles that have more modern guidance and those with already very high kinetic energy from get go are less dependent on the need to maneuver at terminal stages against air breathing targets. Ballistic missiles and exo atmospheric targets where you have no air to maneuver othwerwise still need stuff like pif paf.
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I asked my intelligent friend.
The advantage of dual pulse Beyond Visual Range (BVR) air-to-air missiles over dual thrust air-to-air missiles includes:
Enhanced range and speed: Dual pulse propulsion allows BVR missiles to achieve greater range and speed, enabling them to engage targets at longer distances and with higher velocities.
Improved maneuverability: The dual pulse propulsion system provides BVR missiles with enhanced maneuverability, allowing them to adjust their trajectory and pursue evasive targets more effectively.
Better energy management: Dual pulse propulsion enables BVR missiles to manage their energy more efficiently, optimizing their performance during various phases of flight.
Dual pulse air-to-air missiles are generally faster due to their ability to throttle between high and low speeds, allowing for increased agility and speed when needed.
These advantages make dual pulse BVR air-to-air missiles a preferred choice for engaging targets beyond visual range, offering improved range, speed, maneuverability, and energy management compared to dual thrust missiles.
Then........
The advantages of dual thrust air-to-air missiles over dual pulse air-to-air missiles include:
Simplicity and reliability: Dual thrust propulsion systems are often simpler in design, leading to potentially higher reliability and lower maintenance requirements compared to dual pulse systems.
Cost-effectiveness: Dual thrust propulsion systems may offer a more cost-effective solution for certain applications, as they can be less complex to manufacture and maintain.
Flexible performance: Dual thrust missiles may provide more flexibility in terms of optimizing performance for specific engagement scenarios, depending on the required trade-offs between range, speed, and maneuverability.
These advantages make dual thrust air-to-air missiles suitable for certain operational needs, offering simplicity, reliability, cost-effectiveness, and flexible performance in specific engagement scenarios.
To sum up:
Dual pulse air-to-air missiles offer enhanced range, speed, and maneuverability, while dual thrust missiles provide simplicity, reliability, and potential cost-effectiveness.
@Yasar_TR are we agree with AI guy?
@Nilgiri what about you? India's Astra MK2 is dual pulse .
And what I understood is at low Altitude where the air is thick , the missile need more thrust.
The advantage of dual pulse Beyond Visual Range (BVR) air-to-air missiles over dual thrust air-to-air missiles includes:
Enhanced range and speed: Dual pulse propulsion allows BVR missiles to achieve greater range and speed, enabling them to engage targets at longer distances and with higher velocities.
Improved maneuverability: The dual pulse propulsion system provides BVR missiles with enhanced maneuverability, allowing them to adjust their trajectory and pursue evasive targets more effectively.
Better energy management: Dual pulse propulsion enables BVR missiles to manage their energy more efficiently, optimizing their performance during various phases of flight.
Dual pulse air-to-air missiles are generally faster due to their ability to throttle between high and low speeds, allowing for increased agility and speed when needed.
These advantages make dual pulse BVR air-to-air missiles a preferred choice for engaging targets beyond visual range, offering improved range, speed, maneuverability, and energy management compared to dual thrust missiles.
Then........
The advantages of dual thrust air-to-air missiles over dual pulse air-to-air missiles include:
Simplicity and reliability: Dual thrust propulsion systems are often simpler in design, leading to potentially higher reliability and lower maintenance requirements compared to dual pulse systems.
Cost-effectiveness: Dual thrust propulsion systems may offer a more cost-effective solution for certain applications, as they can be less complex to manufacture and maintain.
Flexible performance: Dual thrust missiles may provide more flexibility in terms of optimizing performance for specific engagement scenarios, depending on the required trade-offs between range, speed, and maneuverability.
These advantages make dual thrust air-to-air missiles suitable for certain operational needs, offering simplicity, reliability, cost-effectiveness, and flexible performance in specific engagement scenarios.
To sum up:
Dual pulse air-to-air missiles offer enhanced range, speed, and maneuverability, while dual thrust missiles provide simplicity, reliability, and potential cost-effectiveness.
@Yasar_TR are we agree with AI guy?
@Nilgiri what about you? India's Astra MK2 is dual pulse .
And what I understood is at low Altitude where the air is thick , the missile need more thrust.
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