TR Missile & Smart Munition Programs

[Yasar_TR]

What is max speed of Sungur?

2.2+ Mach speed according to below magazine.

SUNGUR: A Real 4th Generation MANPADS!

www.defenceturkey.com

 

[Huelague]

2.2+ Mach speed according to below magazine.

SUNGUR: A Real 4th Generation MANPADS!

www.defenceturkey.com

As Stinger missile. I heard it is faster than Stinger.

 

[Bogeyman]

Rear Admiral (LH) Timur YILMAZ "We will soon see that we are firing ATMACA and GEZGİN G/ Ms from our submarines."

https://www.defenceturkey.com/files/issues/DT_128_DzKK.pdf

 

[Kaan Azman]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1771952997301473296

 

[Huelague]

Rear Admiral (LH) Timur YILMAZ "We will soon see that we are firing ATMACA and GEZGİN G/ Ms from our submarines."

https://www.defenceturkey.com/files/issues/DT_128_DzKK.pdf

They will firing Gezgin from submarine first?

 

[Yasar_TR]

As Stinger missile. I heard it is faster than Stinger.

According to TurDef article it is faster than Stinger.

quote:

SUNGUR is a new generation MANPADS fitted with IIR guidance. The missile was first fired from a BMC VURAN 4x4 tactical wheeled vehicle’s turreted 2x2 launcher. SUNGUR was later tested in shoulder-fired configuration, shooting down a high-speed target drone.

The missile’s two-stage rocket motor allows for increased terminal performance with a range of up to 8 km.

SUNGUR surpasses the current in-service FIM-92 Stinger missiles in terms of guidance and range. The difference between the two missiles’ guidance is that Stinger missiles lock on the heat while IIR seekers, mostly used on modern air-to-air missiles, track the image of the target in addition to heat, increasing the resistance against countermeasures.

Following the land vehicle integration and shoulder-fired configurations, SUNGUR will also be integrated on Baykar’s Bayraktar TB2, AKINCI and Bayraktar TB3 armed UAVs. AKINCI was displayed with two-tube launchers, but Bayraktar TB3 was displayed with a single-tube launcher during UMEX 2024.

Unquote.

As both missiles‘ specs are similar in given range, altitude and speed values, you are correct to question it.

Stinger missile rotates around its axis to achieve lock on target. It has an effective operational envelope that is actually less than Sungur’s.
Sungur has a much better and more developed seeker head. It has an overall range and altitude advantage over Stinger in terms of number of kill ratios per the number of firings for the same distance and altitude. (In short; Sungur over a given number firings at a distance of 8 km and 4km altitude will have more success than a Stinger).

Also keep in mind that Sungur is ours and we are not very forthcoming when it comes to specification of weapons. Hence, it is totally feasible to expect that true values are somewhat not reflected in the given ones.

 

[zio]

Is there any multipupose tube on reis class submarines,I think all 8 tube for heavy weight torpodes or atmaca missiles,and mines,gezgin missile is another concept,huge missiles needs huge tubes.

 

[TheInsider]

Gezgin is compatible with a 533mm torpedo tube.

 

[Osman]

What is the max torpedo/missile load for preveze(gür)/reis class subs? 16/22?

 

[Kaan Azman]

Fewer GEZGİNs can be carried by a submarine but the element of surprise compensates well to be honest.

 

[UkroTurk]

Although they haven't revealed Gezgin, now they are saying how to launch. We want to see GEZGİN right now!!!

 

[Quasar]

We already know that our missile has well exceeded the 100km range. The engine class Gokdogan uses is used by US and Chinese in their 200km + range a2a missiles.

Guess for the sake of realizing the full potential of Gökdoğan or Gökhan the importance of our national AESA radar is clear now

 

[Anmdt]

Fewer GEZGİNs can be carried by a submarine but the element of surprise compensates well to be honest.

Submarines (speaking of an average submarine, not those operated by the US) designed to carry little ammunition and do surgical operations, stay covert and leave the scene afterwards. Probably 4 of the tubes can be configured for Gezgin, and not giving a chance to install that on the tubes from internal stocks, so 4 is the most that can be carried by Reis class or whatever class equipped with Akya.

Milden, however, will carry more Gezgin, both VL (Tomahawk-like) and 533 mm tube launched.

TN has not yet shifted the doctrine to prioritize underwater platforms for land strike missions.

 

[UkroTurk]

Submarines (speaking of an average submarine, not those operated by the US) designed to carry little ammunition and do surgical operations, stay covert and leave the scene afterwards. Probably 4 of the tubes can be configured for Gezgin, and not giving a chance to install that on the tubes from internal stocks, so 4 is the most that can be carried by Reis class or whatever class equipped with Akya.

Milden, however, will carry more Gezgin, both VL (Tomahawk-like) and 533 mm tube launched.

TN has not yet shifted the doctrine to prioritize underwater platforms for land strike missions.

Edit:
So Gezgin's capsule slimmer than torpedo tube ( or equal 533mm).
And gezgin is slimmer than 533mm.

Tomahawk missile diameter is 520

 

[Anmdt]

So Gezgin is slimmer than torpedo tube ( or =533mm).

View attachment 66832

I think it will be made to fit 533 mm, not sure if it will be equipped with a capsule as planned with Atmaca, or even if it it wouldn't have the same swim-out distance.

 

[TheInsider]

Sub-Atmaca will have a smart capsule that has propulsion. The smart capsule is like an empty torpedo that can carry a missile to a pre-programmed destination. This way the submarine can stay under the thermocline layer and the missile surfaces a safe distance away from the submarine. Those two things are major advantages for the submarine to stay undetected.

There is no news on whether Gezgin will have a smart capsule or not. Both Tomahawk and MdCN use the TACTOM approach. The missile is put in a capsule like the Pringles can and launched from the torpedo tube. It goes mostly vertically to the surface and the booster engine starts. With the TACTOM approach, you can only launch missiles above the missile depth and capsule surfaces near the submarine. Gezgin is a heavy cruise missile so it might not get a smart capsule similar to sub-Atmaca.

I expect Gezgin to be lighter than Tomahawk. The diameter of the missile should be around 500mm. The launch weight with the smart capsule or launch capsule+booster should be around 1500kg. I expect the Arat turbojet engine to have a lot better fuel economy than the TR-50 but It will certainly fall short of F107-WR-402 turbofan. There are also plans to launch Gezgin from land platforms and the fighters. I expect the weight of air-launched Gezgin to be around 1000kg

Gezgin air-launched ~1000kg (it should be air-launchable from F-16 pylon 3,4, 6 and 7 though F-16 can only pull 5.5 G if the missiles are loaded in pylons 3 and 7)
Gezgin+solid booster/Gezgin land-launched (1200-1300kg, a solid booster with a weight of %20 of the base missile will be enough to give the missile the initial boost)
Gezgin+solid booster+capsule/ Gezgin submarine-launched (~1500kg, similar weight to the Akya heavy torpedo)

TR-50
Thrust: 250-340 daN (2.5 to 3.4 kN)
SPC: 2.64 lbs/daN/h (299kg per hour for 2.5kN and 407 kg per hour for 3.4kN thrust)
Dry Weight (depending on applications): 88-99 lb (40 to 45 kg)
Diameter: 11 in (280mm)
Lenght: 26.8 in ( 680mm


F107-WR-402
Thrust: 700 lbf (3.1 kN)
SPC: 0,683 lbs/lbf/h =1.54 lbs/daN/h ( 217 kg per hour for 3.1 kN thrust)
Dry weight: 67 lb (30kg)
Diameter: 12 in (300mm)
Lenght: 24in (610mm)

KTJ-3200
Thrust: 3.2 kN
SPC: 2.64 lbs/daN/h (SLS, Max RPM, includes bearing lubrication, 383 kg per hour for 3.2 kN thrust)
Length: 630mm
Diameter: 330mm
Weight: 50kg

KTJ-3700
Thrust: 3.7 kN
SPC: %10 better than the KTJ-3200 2,376 lbs/daN/h (SLS, Max rpm, includes bearing lubrication, 399kg per hour for 3.7 kN thrust)
Length: 630mm
Diameter:330mm
Weight: 50kg

KTJ-1750
Thrust: 1.75 kN
SPC: 2.64 lbs/daN/h (SLS, Max rpm, includes bearing lubrication, 209,5 kg for 1.75 kN thrust)
Length: 464 mm (609mm with a long nozzle for the Çakır missile)
Diameter: 202mm (227mm with pyrotechnic igniters)
Weight: 22.5kg

I expect Arat to have a thrust similar to KTJ-3700(3.7kN) and another %10 SFC improvement over KTJ-3700 (2.13 lbs/daN/h).

 

[Bogeyman]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1772359627545469333

CENK!!!

 

[Afif]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1772359627545469333

CENK!!!

Not found!!!

 

[Heartbang]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1772359627545469333

CENK!!!

Its gone

 

[Bogeyman]

Not found!!!

You are to late. They deleted the video. It showed the engine tests and the warhead.

Correction: Let's also share the screenshot of the tweet in order not to be seen as a liar.