• Forum restore complete (see latest announcement thread)

TR Missile & Smart Munition Programs

somegoodusername

Committed member
Messages
225
Reactions
2 378
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey

TOLUN-S, a new TOLUN variant, possibly the surface-launched one announced by İsmail Demir last year
Two of our potential adversaries have a qualitative edge in the air over us. While I believe Kaan will be a good plane on paper, the Americans weren’t busy with picking pears on working on the F-35 project. There’s a possibility we may be unable to perform air-to-ground missions in future conflicts.

Ground launched SDB has a range of 150 km. It can substitute for lack of air to ground missions for some degree in such scenario.
 

what

Experienced member
Moderator
Messages
2,365
Reactions
17 6,976
Nation of residence
Germany
Nation of origin
Turkey

TOLUN-S, a new TOLUN variant, possibly the surface-launched one announced by İsmail Demir last year
This could be our alternative to GLDSB, although it didnt perform well in Ukraine, adds some diversity to the battlefield.

GÜRCAN OKUMUŞ: ASSAN will be the center of mass production in defense​


View attachment 70953

ASSAN Group Defense General Manager Gürcan Okumuş answered our questions about the company's mass production infrastructure and future goals.

Gürcan Okumuş, who stated that ASSAN Group Defense continues its work with the aim of becoming a mass production center in the field of defense industry, gave information about the ongoing and future productions, especially 122mm Rockets, General Purpose Bombs, 155mm Howitzer Ammunition and 60/81/120mm Mortar Ammunition.

In the statement made by Okumuş to SavunmaSanayiST.com Editor-in-Chief Anıl Şahin, the following statements were made:

“ASSAN GROUP has transferred its 40-year machinery production capability to the defense industry sector. Now, the defense industry has become a much more important sector for ASSAN GROUP. We produce MK Series General Purpose Bombs, 122mm Rockets, 155mm Howitzer Ammunition and 60/81/120mm Mortar Ammunition.

We have various subcontractor agreements with Roketsan, ASELSAN and MKE Inc. We have a team of approximately 700 people and our main locations are Sincan and Gerede.

View attachment 70954

Production of 80 thousand MK Series General Purpose Bombs per year!​

We can produce approximately 50 thousand mechanical bodies per year for MK Series General Purpose Bombs. We export a large portion of these to EDGE, a company based in the United Arab Emirates (UAE). Since 2021, we have signed contracts with the UAE to export various amounts of MK Series Bombs and have delivered a large portion of them. We plan to sign a contract with EDGE soon for the supply and joint production of new bombs. Our annual MK Series Bomb production capacity will soon be 80 thousand.

Up until now, we have exported these bombs as mechanical bodies to more than 20 countries, including Bulgaria, Brazil and Romania. We have exported bombs in full ammunition configuration to Azerbaijan by receiving the filling service from outside.

MK Series Bomb Production Line for Nakhchivan​

We are currently working with a local partner to establish a MK Series Bomb Production Line in Azerbaijan, it has been approved by the government and the permitting process is ongoing. We plan to put the line into operation in 2025. It will be in Nakhchivan and will have the capacity to produce 10 thousand full-shot ammunition per year. We also have capabilities in industrial facility installation. In our ongoing investments in Gerede, we have produced many things such as mixers and reactors with our own engineering capabilities. Our negotiations with different countries for the establishment of a MK Series Bomb Production Line are ongoing.

View attachment 70955

We have become one of the main subcontractors of ASELSAN's TOLUN Ammunition. We provide an end-to-end service such as mechanical body production, energetic material filling, integration of ammunition with electronics from ASELSAN, and then crated and delivered to ASELSAN's desired location with our ADB trucks.

360 thousand 155mm Howitzer Ammunition to be Produced Annually​

We have plans to fill aircraft bombs and TNT for 155 in our facilities in Gerede. Our facility construction activities for explosive production and filling are ongoing there. We plan to start producing 155mm Howitzer Ammunition as of mid-2025 and reach full capacity by the end of the year.

Our capacity will be to produce 360 thousand 155mm Howitzer Ammunition per year. Some of this will be in different configurations such as 20 kilometers and some 40 kilometers range. Of course, we will not be able to provide all 360 thousand units as loaded, our first goal is to fill 200 thousand units. We plan to sell the remaining part as ready-to-load bodies to various customers.

View attachment 70956

We plan to produce the fuses for both 122mm and 155mm ammunition ourselves, both through our own R&D activities and through technology transfer. We want to do many things ourselves, as much as possible, within vertical integration.

We have a future investment plan for gunpowder in Kırıkkale. Initially, we may have a single-based investment roadmap, and later we have a roadmap for modular gunpowder


This should address the concern of many members on production capacity of Turkish Ammunition manufacturers. @TR_123456 @Yasar_TR @Sanchez @dBSPL @Kartal1 @what @Saithan @Rooxbar et al.



Usually these numbers are state secrets, but this is Turkey. Anyway good to see him and to see their ambitions.
Mass production center with ambitions to vertically integrate with R&D and tech-transfer. Sounds like TSMC in its early years but for bombs.
 

Kaan Azman 

Contributor
DH Visual Specialist
Messages
610
Reactions
30 2,434
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
The reason it didn't perform well is the GPS jamming and baseline GBU-39 has no other way to accurately navigate

It is left to ASELSAN to take notes and overcome
 

Rooxbar

Contributor
Think Tank Analyst
Messages
944
Reactions
71 2,897
Nation of residence
Nethelands
Nation of origin
Turkey
Gürcan bey is a beast, I'm certain he'll achieve whatever he puts his mind to in this private endeavour.
 

Saithan

Experienced member
Moderator
Denmark Correspondent
DefenceHub Diplomat
Messages
9,865
Reactions
67 22,008
Nation of residence
Denmark
Nation of origin
Turkey
I'm sorry, but from the comments I get the impression that Assan group is not a production company, but work with suppliers to deliver products

And another impression I get is that they're not adding to the production capacity, but redistributing/redirecting existing productionlines.

Or did I get something wrong.

Apparently they're supplying Edge in UAE, so they keep their productionline open for export, which is good. But why involve Assan is domestic supply for TSK, if they're making good money from export. Don't we have enough domestic production from MKE and other state owned companies ?

Is this another scheme where privat companies will shrink into only delivering to domestic market and grow fat and lazy from it ?
 

Saithan

Experienced member
Moderator
Denmark Correspondent
DefenceHub Diplomat
Messages
9,865
Reactions
67 22,008
Nation of residence
Denmark
Nation of origin
Turkey
We absolutely do not.
So in between the lines. we're redirecting any unfilled production capacity to our own needs.

I remember a member once mentioned that some things were still very old school in MKE, so I was wondering if we had move on to modern production methods using robots, and automated processes.

For instance if we're using CNC machine and such, do we produce these CNC machine that will enable us to automate more processes ?

Machines would be able to produce through out the night with a few technicians to ensure smooth production and such.
 

Zoth

Active member
Messages
144
Reactions
6 294
Nation of residence
Greece
Nation of origin
Turkey
For instance if we're using CNC machine and such, do we produce these CNC machine that will enable us to automate more processes ?

Machines would be able to produce through out the night with a few technicians to ensure smooth production and such.
Yes, In fact, Turkey is very advanced in this matter where we are making one of the most advanced CNCs and even export them to other countries.

Some of the companies in different industries who make their own CNCs:
Akyapak Makina, Taksan Makina, Durma Makina, Baykal Makina, Mikron Makina, Bimatek CNC, Mustek CNC, Protek Otomotive, İğrek Makina.

More related to Defence Industry video with Igrek Makina's founder.


One of the most advanced CNC models(5 AXIS CNC) is also made my them.

 
Last edited:

Kaan Azman 

Contributor
DH Visual Specialist
Messages
610
Reactions
30 2,434
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
I'm a big fan of pickups myself, I totally absolutely approve but why not adding proximity fuse to CİRİT for C-UAS capability?
 

UkroTurk

Experienced member
Land Warfare Specialist
Professional
Messages
2,970
Reactions
62 5,304
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
I'm a big fan of pickups myself, I totally absolutely approve but why not adding proximity fuse to CİRİT for C-UAS capability?
How does it detonate itself? İmpact fuse? IMO Cirit must have proximity fuse.
 

UkroTurk

Experienced member
Land Warfare Specialist
Professional
Messages
2,970
Reactions
62 5,304
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
As far as we know, it is impact fuse for now, its on my ask bucket for SAHA EXPO

At 3:40 new ammunition against swarm attacks. Kinda short CIRIT. Very interesting ammunition, do they have time fuse? could it replace autocannons with smart ammunition?

Looks like our 40mm laser guided METE missile. Is it possible adding time fuse in METE? Would be efficient?


EDIT: Cirit or other laser guided weapons could not be time fused????
Remember they also don't have top attack capability.

laser guidence needs reflected energy. İf there is no reflection, missile could not engage.


I mean if you send laser beam on empty sky- where the target will pass through -missile will fly as much as possible. CIWS with Smart ammunition doesn't work like this. Am i wrong?

Hedefin bir iki saniye sonra muhtemelen nerede olacağını hesaplıyor, sonrada muhtemel noktada önceden patlayarak, tungsten bulut oluşturuyor. Demekki hedeften yansıma olmadığı sürece, lazer güdümü bunu yapamaz.??
Derdimi s.k.y.m:)
@Yasar_TR


Edit2: there is a just rearward laser guided missile: Star streak!!!

Starstreak has rearward faced sensors.

The missile does not home in on laser energy reflected from the target; instead, the aiming unit projects two laser beams which paint a two-dimensional matrix upon the target. The lasers are modulated, and by examining these modulations the sub-munitions sensor can determine the dart's location within the matrix.

EDIT 3:
Thales LMM guided missile (UK) appears to have same rearward faced sensors.

images.jpeg



Long story short:
Korkut CIWS and 40mm ATOM are irreplaceable,matchless!!!
 
Last edited:

Kaan Azman 

Contributor
DH Visual Specialist
Messages
610
Reactions
30 2,434
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
LMM has already demonstrated itself against fixed wing UAVs in Ukraine so it is pretty viable as a dual-purpose effector
 

Sanchez

Experienced member
Moderator
Think Tank Analyst
DefenceHub Diplomat
Messages
4,206
Reactions
127 19,085
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
"The first firing tests of the ramjet-propelled long-range air-to-air missile GÖKHAN, which is under development under the Prime Contractor TÜBİTAK SAGE, are expected to be carried out in 2025. However, in order to see the real performance of GÖKHAN, the MURAD AESA Nose Radar with long detection range capability must also be ready.... "


There's nothing to suggest so far that "a longer range Air-to-Air Missile than GÖKDOĞAN", isn't Gökhan.
"GÖKHAN, which is announced to be able to reach speeds close to Mach 5, will be equipped with the ASELSAN product AGRAS-200AA Active RF Seeker Head.."

As I thought, this was not a previously unannounced missile but the Gökhan.

"If the source code supply required for the integration of national missile and sensor systems (for the Tranche 3+ Block 7 version, which is also in the QEAF inventory) is possible as requested, we will be able to see GÖKHAN on the Eurofighter Typhoon as well..."
 
Last edited:

Quasar 

Contributor
Moderator
Messages
920
Reactions
54 4,037
Nation of residence
Nethelands
Nation of origin
Turkey
1729518004420.png


GÖKKURT Smart Ammunition (GAM) Family will be introduced for the first time at SAHA EXPO 2024 • The GAM Smart Ammunition Family developed by ASTECH draws attention with its warheads that are 2-3 times more powerful than its counterparts in the sector, long ranges and wide shooting envelope. • The GAM ammunition family, which can be used in SİHAs and fixed-wing aircraft, will provide operational superiority to the user in the battlefield with range options of 20, 40 and 80 kilometers and 16-kg warheads.

 

Kartal1

Experienced member
Moderator
Messages
5,291
Reactions
114 19,734
Nation of residence
Bulgaria
Nation of origin
Turkey
View attachment 71304

GÖKKURT Smart Ammunition (GAM) Family will be introduced for the first time at SAHA EXPO 2024 • The GAM Smart Ammunition Family developed by ASTECH draws attention with its warheads that are 2-3 times more powerful than its counterparts in the sector, long ranges and wide shooting envelope. • The GAM ammunition family, which can be used in SİHAs and fixed-wing aircraft, will provide operational superiority to the user in the battlefield with range options of 20, 40 and 80 kilometers and 16-kg warheads.

Lets see. While MAM-L are still good and useful, there are instances where the ammunition misses by a centimeter and the effect on target is greatly reduced. For some reason our drone operators are often reluctant on a double tap and in result the targeted HVT is getting away with injuries. If they manage to keep the price low and have a decent production rate then I think it is time for TSK and MIT to think about it.
 
Top Bottom