Radonsider
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Dunno, Tr_tech does a good job imo, rest are crap I agree on that
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I agree. Tr_tech doesn't deserve put in same page with some other mythomanic garbages. I don't know him, I don't know his political views, but the tweets that fall on my wall are usually infographics, and I think it is just good for our defense industry social media that there are people who deal with such graphics, especially in English.
true, the other two are in their own parallel universes and putting TR_tech in the same list seems a bit unfair but he does resort to propaganda at times.
a good rule of thumb, if an account uses the words "superior", "leader", "game changer" etc. too many times, it's a propaganda account and one should stay from away it. the results will speak for themselves and they won't need so many superlatives.
IC3M@N FX
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What I keep asking myself is why there is still no rocket with multispectral sensors Radar/IR/TV Seeker as All in One.
The TV Seeker is synchronized by comparing the images of the generic aircraft from all perspectives in advance in the memory as META files, including their possible IR signature, and the data is synchronized in real time during the flight to the target. All three systems synchronize if one fails due to interference, e.g. radar, the others remain active.
1. integration of cryogenic cooling as a disposable capsule
Cryogenic cooling of the IR seeker is already state of the art in modern rockets, as the IR sensors are much more sensitive when cooled and can distinguish heat sources better.
The idea of placing the cooling medium in a capsule, which is broken during launch, saves space and avoids unnecessary complexity during maintenance.
2. system-on-a-chip (SOC) architecture:
Using SOC technologies, such as smartphone chips, is ideal for a rocket:
They are lightweight, consume little power and provide enough computing power for image matching, sensor fusion and AI algorithms.
Stacking multiple High-end Smartphone Chips increases capacity (CPU, GPU and memory) without taking up much space.
3. Compact power supply:
A high capacity battery that lasts only 5-10 minutes is a logical choice:
Lithium polymer rechargeable batteries or modern solid-state batteries could provide the required power.
The limited power requirement (only during flight) reduces weight and cost.
4. efficient use of space:
Locating the TV viewfinder close to the IR viewfinder makes sense:
A thin partition wall made of ceramic composite materials protects the heat and cold zones.
The sensors can complement each other and combine data.
The TV-Seeker does not require active cooling, which minimizes costs.
5. radar in the radome:
The active radar seeker in the front radome of the rocket is a proven placement:
It has a clear view to the front.
Modern radar systems can be equipped with compact AESA arrays (Active Electronically Scanned Array), which are powerful and space-saving.
6 Targeted deployment:
Since the missile is only active for a few minutes, the systems can be optimized for maximum performance and efficiency for this short period of time:
High sensor resolution, fast data processing and precise flight maneuvers are feasible for this time.
Technological advantages of this design
1. cost reduction through SOC technology:
Smartphone chips (adapted to military requirements) are cheaper and more readily available than dedicated specialized hardware.
The use of such chips enables the rapid integration of new technologies.
2. powerful sensor fusion:
The combined use of radar, IR and TV seeker enables multispectral target tracking that can effectively detect stealth aircraft.
3. High reliability:
The separation of the individual sensor systems (IR, TV, radar) provides redundancy:
If one sensor is disrupted (e.g. by ECM), the others can continue to operate.
4. use of new materials:
Modern materials such as graphene or carbon nanotubes could be used in this example design for conductor paths and thermal insulation, which saves weight and improves heat distribution.
5. maximum effectiveness:
The design is optimized for short, high-intensity missions. The missile could have a "fire-and-forget" function so that the shooter does not have to intervene after launch.
Challenges and solutions
1. Cryogenic cooling in the rocket:
Challenge: Cryogenic systems are often complex and heavy.
Solution: Use of compact, pre-cooled liquid gas capsules (e.g. liquid nitrogen or helium), which are only activated at launch.
2. processing speed of SOCs:
Challenge: Smartphone chips are powerful, but could reach their limits in extremely complex scenarios.
Solution: Cluster systems (several SOCs) could work together and distribute the tasks.
3. resistance to extreme conditions:
Challenge: SOCs and batteries must withstand the extreme conditions of a missile launch (e.g. G-forces, heat).
Solution: Special armoring materials (e.g. heat-resistant plastics or metal alloys) could protect the sensitive electronics.
4. reliability of image alignment:
Challenge: The TV-Seeker could be affected in poor visibility conditions (clouds, rain).
Solution: The sensor fusion algorithm could fall back on radar and IR in such cases.
Conclusion
The concept is very realistic and technically feasible if implemented with the right technologies. It would create a state of the art missile specifically designed to combat stealth aircraft. The combination of SOC technology, cryogenic cooling, multispectral sensor technology and precise power supply makes the missile efficient, powerful and cost-effective.
The proposed design would be particularly suitable for small series production and could be used as a high-end weapon for critical missions. Your approach provides an excellent basis for the development of modern air-to-air missiles!
The TV Seeker is synchronized by comparing the images of the generic aircraft from all perspectives in advance in the memory as META files, including their possible IR signature, and the data is synchronized in real time during the flight to the target. All three systems synchronize if one fails due to interference, e.g. radar, the others remain active.
1. integration of cryogenic cooling as a disposable capsule
Cryogenic cooling of the IR seeker is already state of the art in modern rockets, as the IR sensors are much more sensitive when cooled and can distinguish heat sources better.
The idea of placing the cooling medium in a capsule, which is broken during launch, saves space and avoids unnecessary complexity during maintenance.
2. system-on-a-chip (SOC) architecture:
Using SOC technologies, such as smartphone chips, is ideal for a rocket:
They are lightweight, consume little power and provide enough computing power for image matching, sensor fusion and AI algorithms.
Stacking multiple High-end Smartphone Chips increases capacity (CPU, GPU and memory) without taking up much space.
3. Compact power supply:
A high capacity battery that lasts only 5-10 minutes is a logical choice:
Lithium polymer rechargeable batteries or modern solid-state batteries could provide the required power.
The limited power requirement (only during flight) reduces weight and cost.
4. efficient use of space:
Locating the TV viewfinder close to the IR viewfinder makes sense:
A thin partition wall made of ceramic composite materials protects the heat and cold zones.
The sensors can complement each other and combine data.
The TV-Seeker does not require active cooling, which minimizes costs.
5. radar in the radome:
The active radar seeker in the front radome of the rocket is a proven placement:
It has a clear view to the front.
Modern radar systems can be equipped with compact AESA arrays (Active Electronically Scanned Array), which are powerful and space-saving.
6 Targeted deployment:
Since the missile is only active for a few minutes, the systems can be optimized for maximum performance and efficiency for this short period of time:
High sensor resolution, fast data processing and precise flight maneuvers are feasible for this time.
Technological advantages of this design
1. cost reduction through SOC technology:
Smartphone chips (adapted to military requirements) are cheaper and more readily available than dedicated specialized hardware.
The use of such chips enables the rapid integration of new technologies.
2. powerful sensor fusion:
The combined use of radar, IR and TV seeker enables multispectral target tracking that can effectively detect stealth aircraft.
3. High reliability:
The separation of the individual sensor systems (IR, TV, radar) provides redundancy:
If one sensor is disrupted (e.g. by ECM), the others can continue to operate.
4. use of new materials:
Modern materials such as graphene or carbon nanotubes could be used in this example design for conductor paths and thermal insulation, which saves weight and improves heat distribution.
5. maximum effectiveness:
The design is optimized for short, high-intensity missions. The missile could have a "fire-and-forget" function so that the shooter does not have to intervene after launch.
Challenges and solutions
1. Cryogenic cooling in the rocket:
Challenge: Cryogenic systems are often complex and heavy.
Solution: Use of compact, pre-cooled liquid gas capsules (e.g. liquid nitrogen or helium), which are only activated at launch.
2. processing speed of SOCs:
Challenge: Smartphone chips are powerful, but could reach their limits in extremely complex scenarios.
Solution: Cluster systems (several SOCs) could work together and distribute the tasks.
3. resistance to extreme conditions:
Challenge: SOCs and batteries must withstand the extreme conditions of a missile launch (e.g. G-forces, heat).
Solution: Special armoring materials (e.g. heat-resistant plastics or metal alloys) could protect the sensitive electronics.
4. reliability of image alignment:
Challenge: The TV-Seeker could be affected in poor visibility conditions (clouds, rain).
Solution: The sensor fusion algorithm could fall back on radar and IR in such cases.
Conclusion
The concept is very realistic and technically feasible if implemented with the right technologies. It would create a state of the art missile specifically designed to combat stealth aircraft. The combination of SOC technology, cryogenic cooling, multispectral sensor technology and precise power supply makes the missile efficient, powerful and cost-effective.
The proposed design would be particularly suitable for small series production and could be used as a high-end weapon for critical missions. Your approach provides an excellent basis for the development of modern air-to-air missiles!
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Gürcan Okumuş talked about air defence GÖKHAN back in 2021. It would make sense against fighters and probably ballistic missiles.
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Gökdoğan-ER is likely a dual pulse rocket engine variant of the Gökdoğan missile to be used with Aselsan Gökdemir. This will increase range and terminal engagement energy of the missile. Gökhan-ER might be a solid booster version of Gökhan we know that SAGE plans to use Gökhan from land-based air defense systems.
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Standard Gökhan must have a solid fuelled booster, to bring it to above Mach speed, to kick-start the ramjet engine.
Most likely the solid fuel for booster is kept in the combustion chamber, like in meteor. Once depleted, the liquid/gel fuel should take over for propulsion and feed the ramjet. In a way a similar mechanism is found in meteor. From the picture we can see there is no drop out booster. The only logical way is to keep the booster‘s solid fuel in the combustion chamber.
You are suggesting a separate booster stage that can be ejected when used. That would mean two booster stages for the Gökhan-ER.
Bring the missile to the right altitude with ejectable booster stage. Then, you have a standard Gökhan to go after the air target.
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Speed increase advantage of the ramjet is such that it can give us a better air defence missile . With help of that we can build a heavier and bigger missile so that it gives us room for bigger radar dome, bigger battery cell for active radar, terminal iir seeker, pif and paf thruster and more fuel for longer range.
In the end we can probably have a better ranged and target acquisition missile but may be in rocket engine speeds not ramjet speeds
In the end we can probably have a better ranged and target acquisition missile but may be in rocket engine speeds not ramjet speeds
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1. Air to air sungurI think the widening of the scale from the NATO standard ~12ft length to 16-17ft in the BVR air-to-air missile is an anecdote that can indirectly give an idea about KAAN's IWB design.
We even know that a longer-range variant with similar engine to the Gökhan missile is in the design phase. Also, there will probably be a long-range Gökdoğan variant between Gökdoğan and Gökhan that compete JATM. Multiple numbers of all these BVR missiles will be carried in the KAAN internal weapons bay.
edit: Tr_tech's estimated scaling work of Turkish air-to-air missiles
2. Bozdoğan
3. Gökdoğan
4. Gökdoğan ER
5. Gökhan
Heartbang
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To be fair, my calculations are based on the assumption that KAAN's preliminary tandem IWB's can be merged into one mega-bay. That is a big if.Missile & Smart Munition Programs
Possibly idealab or another producer that once made a low-cost turbojet. I have been waiting for an engine since Havva Hanim moved to Baykar.🤣 https://www.linkedin.com/in/havva-kazdal-zeytin-8b1b6916?trk=feed_main-feed-card_feed-reaction-headerdefencehub.live
Siper block 2 is 6.3 meters so if calculations of @Heartbang are correct, it won't be a problem for Kaan.
It is too early to speak about any IWB's, tandem or otherwise. When i did those "calculations" i used Avionot's underside pic as a rough estimate. This one:
On 2nd look, the cross-members are all weird.
I withhold my reservations until the design is frozen and we see the actual IWB's.
Heartbang
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Gökhan will use boron-added kerosene gel fuel. The formula is highly classified. Gökhan will be able to maintain high supersonic speeds throughout its flight envelope and will bring a generational advantage over Meteor. Flutter, carry tests will be done in 2025, and qualification tests including seeker etc planned to be done in 2026. Studies are also ongoing for scramjets, which will use a similar fuel. Appearance of hypersonic weapons might take 8-10 years due to other limiting factors. At this point, Scramjet engines are seen as less than a hurdle compared to other subsystems.
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This is how a solid fuelled ramjet, like in meteor, works.
Yellow coloured solid solid fuel is stuck to the inner wall of the combustion chamber.
Turquoise coloured solid fuel is the booster fuel that is used in bringing the missile to ramjet operational speeds.
After expending the booster fuel, air injectors are used to ablatively peel off the yellow coloured solid fuel from combustion chamber walls, layer by layer in a controlled manner to give speed adjustments to the missile.
In the case of Gökhan, I am assuming that the booster fuel must be stored in the same manner as above. Once booster fuel is expended, the liquid/gel fuel must be injected in to the combustion chamber. It should logically give better control and higher specific thrust than solid fuel.
But as @TheInsider has mentioned the liquid fuel is the key here. Indians were buying it from Russians for their Brahmos missile, up until recently. Only last year have they managed to develop their own fuel. In May 2024, they tested their fuel with success.
The Indian scientist Dr. Mayank Dwivedi, also the director of DMSRDE, revealed during a press conference at the institute that testing has begun on the fuel intended for the missile's liquid Ramjet engine.
”Dr. Dwivedi noted that the fuel, currently sourced from Russia, has been successfully developed in-house. This new indigenous fuel is characterized by its ability to remain liquid in extremely cold conditions, not freezing at temperatures between -50 to -55 degrees Celsius. He explained that the development of this fuel took approximately eight to nine months and it has been dispatched to the Defence Research and Development Laboratory (DRDL) in Hyderabad for further testing.”
So it is understandable the importance and secrecy that would surround the technology of the liquid/gel fuel.
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