TR Missile & Smart Munition Programs

[TheInsider]

My humble guess range of Tayfun block 4 is 1700-2100km
@TheInsider accurate ballpark?

Yes, I think so, but it depends on the warhead. Roketsan might have gone for a bigger 1000 or 1500kg warhead we don't know the details.

Confirmation from Commander of the land forces General Selçuk Bayraktaroğlu.
Tayfun block 4 will enter the inventory by the end of this year.

I want to add this, a final firing test will be done this year before the system enters the inventory.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1947709499621384302

 

[BalkanTurk90]

My humble guess range of Tayfun block 4 is 1700-2100km
@TheInsider accurate ballpark?

i would say 1200- 1600 km but depends aslo what type and size of warhead it has . I wonder more about the carry lunch vihacle , it will look like df 16 ones or what ? It will be national or foreight 8 x 8 , 6 x 6 ??

 

[Philip the Arab]

i would say 1200- 1600 km but depends aslo what type and size of warhead it has . I wonder more about the carry lunch vihacle , it will look like df 16 ones or what ? It will be national or foreight 8 x 8 , 6 x 6 ??

I was using Pershing-2 as it has very similar weight and dimensions as a reference but yeah payload is definitely going to be a big factor.

Forgot it’s a two stage as well but theoretically a MARV wouldn’t be impossible with the Tayfun.

 

[Strong AI]

Tayfun block 2 and 3 are classified and won't be announced or unveiled.

Ok imo this confirms some speculations we did. And imo it makes sense to not unveil them.

 

[Bogeyman]

Yes, I think so, but it depends on the warhead. Roketsan might have gone for a bigger 1000 or 1500kg warhead we don't know the details.

Confirmation from Commander of the land forces General Selçuk Bayraktaroğlu.
Tayfun block 4 will enter the inventory by the end of this year.

I want to add this, a final firing test will be done this year before the system enters the inventory.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1947709499621384302

I'm reminded of the scramjet article in Roketsan magazine. Therefore, we may have developed a hypersonic glide vehicle capable of reaching altitude with a ballistic missile. Claiming to be a scramjet requires that the average cruise speed be hypersonic once the engine is running. Indeed, when the Tayfun Block-4 was mentioned, it was assumed that the missile would be hypersonic. Normally, such a definition isn't used for ballistic missiles based on maximum cruise speed. Therefore, I hope we develop an HGV and add it to the inventory.

 

[TheInsider]

Gökbora
Length: 3.75m
Diameter: 180mm
Weight: ~200kg (estimate)
Propulsion: Solid fuel ramjet
Midcourse Guidance: INS+two-way data-link
Terminal Guidance: Aselsan AESA seeker+optimal guidance algorithms
Warhead: HE Frag
Fuses: Impact, Tubitak SAGE Laser target proximity sensor.
Foldable fins


Meteor
Length: 3.7m
Diameter: 178mm
Weight: 190kg
Propulsion: Solid fuel ramjet
Midcourse Guidance: INS+ two-way data-link
Terminal Guidance: AD4A based Active RF seeker
Warhead: HE Frag
Fuses: Impact, RF Proximity
Cropped fin variant for F-35

 

[GoatsMilk]

what is the accuracy of the Tayfun? Because the major problem with the iranian ballistic missiles used against isreal they really served no strategic value due to low accuracy and were mainly launched on cities hitting civilian structures. Are these able to directly target say air defence systems?

 

[Yasar_TR]

I'm reminded of the scramjet article in Roketsan magazine. Therefore, we may have developed a hypersonic glide vehicle capable of reaching altitude with a ballistic missile. Claiming to be a scramjet requires that the average cruise speed be hypersonic once the engine is running. Indeed, when the Tayfun Block-4 was mentioned, it was assumed that the missile would be hypersonic. Normally, such a definition isn't used for ballistic missiles based on maximum cruise speed. Therefore, I hope we develop an HGV and add it to the inventory.

Bro, reading above doesn’t make sense.
You are showing CRDE details and talking about scramjet.
Then you are talking about hypersonic and ballistic missiles.

Can you please explain in depth what you mean?

Ballistic missiles like Bora, Tayfun reach hyoersonic speeds during their flights. (Mainly in midcourse)
Yet ICBMs are hyoersonic all the way.
Where as a Bora may hit target with 1.5 Mach , an ICBM may hit target with 8-10 Mach.
Bora may fly hypersonic for a very short time. Yet Tayfun B4 may fly most of its trajectory in hypersonic speed. But still hit target at high supersonic.

 

[CAN_TR]

what is the accuracy of the Tayfun? Because the major problem with the iranian ballistic missiles used against isreal they really served no strategic value due to low accuracy and were mainly launched on cities hitting civilian structures. Are these able to directly target say air defence systems?

It hit the target bullseye, so it's safe to say less then 10m.

 

[Bogeyman]

Bro, reading above doesn’t make sense.
You are showing CRDE details and talking about scramjet.
Then you are talking about hypersonic and ballistic missiles.

Can you please explain in depth what you mean?

Ballistic missiles like Bora, Tayfun reach hyoersonic speeds during their flights. (Mainly in midcourse)
Yet ICBMs are hyoersonic all the way.
Where as a Bora may hit target with 1.5 Mach , an ICBM may hit target with 8-10 Mach.
Bora may fly hypersonic for a very short time. Yet Tayfun B4 may fly most of its trajectory in hypersonic speed. But still hit target at high supersonic.

The image shows a cruise speed of 1500-2500 m/sec. This falls between the high supersonic and hypersonic ranges. I'm guessing the ballistic missile ignites its scramjet engine in the second stage after reaching an altitude of 50 km+. We don't have the power to launch an HGV like the Russians, which dives from a Sarmat ICBM. We don't have any ballistic missiles with such a long range. Therefore, it makes more sense to launch into space with a conventional engine and handle the remaining critical phase with a scramjet engine. Furthermore, hybrid rocket technology can't carry twice the payload of an average ballistic missile.


WHAT IS A RDE?

A Rotating Detonation Engine (RDE) is essentially a more compact and efficient method of creating thrust for a wide variety of military relevant systems. These mechanically simple engines have no moving parts making them less complex than gas turbine engines and therefore potentially lower cost and simpler to manufacture.

RDEs rapidly burn fuel via a supersonically travelling detonation wave; this in turn delivers high performance in a small volume. This volume savings can be used to increase fuel and/or payload volume providing potential range, speed and affordability benefits compared to rockets, ramjets and gas-turbines.

This rapidly developing technology enables a wide range of military applications including air-to-ground, air-to-air and surface weapons. Building on sustained Air Force and Navy investment, current research is targeted at expeditiously transitioning truly disruptive effects to the warfighter.

It is possible to leverage a detonation wave in systems from ground power to turbine engines, ram/scramjets and rockets. Each of these systems, benefits from a reduced volume/mass and an increased performance.

The illustration to left and described below is for the simplest of applications a rotating detonation ramjet:

• Composed of 2 coaxial cylinders with gap between
• Fuel & oxidizer continuously flow into annular gap
• Detonation travels around annulus & burns mixture
  • Delivering extremely compact heat release
  • Increasing pressure and cycle efficiency without mechanically complex rotating machinery
• Products leave nozzle axially creating thrust

Military relevance of RDE ramjets is enhanced by:

• Simple design potential enables production at rates necessary for mass weapon employment
• High-speed detonation wave delivers continuous thrust and minimizes integration challenges

Air-to-ground weapons

• RDE powered weapons have the potential to provide a clear advantage to our military:
• Range, survivability, loadout and payload that enhances legacy platform utility in near peer fight
• High-speed standoff with better loadout and versatility
• Compatible on a wide range of platforms
• Price point that delivers affordable destruction of high-value, time-sensitive targets and mass effects
• Addresses SECAF air dominance, moving target engagement and long-range strike Operational Imperatives (OI)

WHY ARE RDE IMPORTANT TO WARFIGHTER?

As stated earlier, rotating detonation can be employed in a wide range of engine configurations including in ramjets, rockets and gas turbines. The discussion here will center on two applications of the RDE ramjet illustrated on page 1.

Both internally and externally carried munitions are constrained in overall dimension and launch mass by several factors including associated weapons platforms, ground handling equipment and logistical concerns. The small volume for the RDE combustor allows critical volume to be applied to fuel and payload.

ROTATING DETONATION ENGINES (RDE) – Air Force Research Laboratory

afresearchlab.com

This is how the US defines the technology we work with

 

[Kaan Azman]

ROKETSAN revised PUSU to be a literal swiss knife to be honest

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1947761753669980312

 

[Pokemonte13]

ROKETSAN revised PUSU to be a literal swiss knife to be honest

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1947761753669980312

This is against ground targets as well as larger drones like shahed style thats why the changed the designator to track fast moving targets

 

[Bogeyman]

The R&D department of the Ministry of National Defense announced that it has developed an air-to-air missile.

The second missile on the back says "air-to-air" and "air defense missile".

 

[Strong AI]

@TheInsider

Both ST and GDH claim the range of Göktan as 150 km. But that doesn't have to mean much. And ST says in the video the rocket is solid fuel (kati yakit), but that has to be an error.

 

[Strong AI]

Containerized missile launcher from Roketsan

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1947892261158850702

 

[Strong AI]

what is the accuracy of the Tayfun? Because the major problem with the iranian ballistic missiles used against isreal they really served no strategic value due to low accuracy and were mainly launched on cities hitting civilian structures. Are these able to directly target say air defence systems?

 

[Pokemonte13]

View attachment 76604

The R&D department of the Ministry of National Defense announced that it has developed an air-to-air missile.

The second missile on the back says "air-to-air" and "air defense missile".

60km range 122 Artillery rocket? got it a smaller warhead?

 

[Barry]

Sensational developments.

 

[Yasar_TR]

I'm guessing the ballistic missile ignites its scramjet engine in the second stage after reaching an altitude of 50 km+.

Bro you have mixed different technologies and made a concoction out of it. (In Turkish a Çorba)

First of all CRDE is a technology that is not used by any missile or platform yet. Only recently did they manage to apply it to test platforms. There is still a long road ahead. First it will be adaptive bypass engines then CRDE.

Ballistic missiles don’t have scramjet engines. They are either solid or liquid fuelled. Or they are hybrid which use one stage with solid fuel, another with liquid fuel.

Scramjet engines are air breathing engines and they do not work in Space.

Ballistic missiles are thrusted up towards the space like a giant firework to follow a specific trajectory. When they reach their apogee or just before or just after, their engine cuts out. They start losing speed and they start to fall towards earth in a “ballistic” trajectory. That is when their speed increase until they reach dense atmosphere around 20-15 km in altitude. Then their speed start to decrease. The heavier they are and the more aerodynamic they are, the less they lose their speed.

A SRBM like Tayfun is solid fuelled. But these are quasi ballistic missiles. In other words their trajectories are suppressed. They do not go high enough to enter space. They may level out between 50K to 70K altitude and fall down to earth from there following a predetermined ballistic trajectory. MRBMs enter space.

We don't have the power to launch an HGV like the Russians, which dives from a Sarmat ICBM. We don't have any ballistic missiles with such a long range. Therefore, it makes more sense to launch into space with a conventional engine and handle the remaining critical phase with a scramjet engine. Furthermore, hybrid rocket technology can't carry twice the payload of an average ballistic missile

Hypersonic Glide Vehicles do not have engines to propel them. They are taken high in to space by a ballistic missile and released at great velocities to glide down to earth.
Since scramjet won’t work in space, you can’t do what you are suggesting.
A conventional engine for space flight is the type of engines used in Tayfun or Hybrid Delta V rocket. We as Türkiye, don’t yet have the technology to do that.

Hybrid Rocket technology is the main technology that will carry heavier weights in to space. It is still a ballistic missile tech. Space shuttle and some Ariane missiles use solid fuel as propellant. But it is usually liquid fuel that is used for space flight.