TR Missile & Smart Munition Programs

[UkroTurk]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2090447912220426460

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2090489160360427798

"Drone Submunitions - rocket delivered drone swarms While we are currently worried about individual drones, the future threat imo will be drone submunitions delivered by missiles.

A GMLRS rocket could deliver 100 of these Drone40 sized munitions to a target 80-150km away. Operating autonomously with image recognition, they could perform a grid search of a square kilometer or more, exterminating any soldiers or vehicles they encounter.

Traditional drone defenses (other than netting) would be ineffective because the missile delivers them all at once, right on top of you. If these aren't already in testing they will be soon."

The idea of firing mini Çakır cruise missiles from the Gezgin cruise missile to increase saturation power.

Or, transforming the Atmaca anti-ship missile into a platform carrying around 100 FPV kamikaze UAVs. Crazy ideas are coming to mind.

What about delivery of Sonobuoys or mini USV?

 

[Bogeyman]

What about delivery of Sonobuoys or mini USV?

We could actually convert any type of missile or torpedo into a carrier platform. Imagine a mini kamikaze unmanned submarine emerging from inside the Akya. Even 3-4 of them could engage multiple ships simultaneously. Moreover, torpedoes travel fast. If we launched kamikazes 2 km from the target, we would practically create a new terminology: "underwater saturation."

@Anmdt
What do you think? Is something like this possible?

 

[Anmdt]

We could actually convert any type of missile or torpedo into a carrier platform. Imagine a mini kamikaze unmanned submarine emerging from inside the Akya. Even 3-4 of them could engage multiple ships simultaneously. Moreover, torpedoes travel fast. If we launched kamikazes 2 km from the target, we would practically create a new terminology: "underwater saturation."

@Anmdt
What do you think? Is something like this possible?

Roketsan initially has worked on propelled carrier capsule for delivery of anti ship missiles, later changed to typical capsule launch.
It makes sense but the torpedo itself, if it manages to get a few km close, is sufficiently and more deadlier. It makes more sense to create a low-cost loitering torpedo / owa-uuv with aforementioned kamikaze drones, or submunitions to saturate.

 

[Bogeyman]

Roketsan initially has worked on propelled carrier capsule for delivery of anti ship missiles, later changed to typical capsule launch.
It makes sense but the torpedo itself, if it manages to get a few km close, is sufficiently and more deadlier. It makes more sense to create a low-cost loitering torpedo / owa-uuv with aforementioned kamikaze drones, or submunitions to saturate.

However, when kamikaze unmanned underwater vehicles attack you via saturation attacks, it is very difficult to attack them from the surface. Whether due to detection difficulties, their maneuverability, or the problems kamikaze UAVs face in flying at very low altitudes in the open sea, using UAVs for defensive purposes becomes impossible. Therefore, defense against saturation attacks carried out by unmanned submarines/underwater vehicles is only possible from underwater. Torpedoes, on the other hand, will enable rapid deployment and the transport of a large number of kamikaze attack vehicles.

We have seen ASELSAN's swarm logic used on kamikaze attack and reconnaissance vehicles on unmanned mini-submarines/kamikazes. As this becomes more widespread globally, the UAV-UAV warfare that began in the air will evolve into a new form in the seas in the future.

 

[zio]

We have not got orka torpedo,untill than everything on ASW wll be in trouble.

 

[Sanchez]

We have not got orka torpedo,untill than everything on ASW wll be in trouble.

Developing torpedos are hard. We still have a very nice number of Mk 54s and older but very potent Mk 46s. If SIPRI is to be believed we have some 700(?) Mk 46s. But yes, we haven't heard anything of Orka for some years.

Mk 46 Mod 5s are old but good weapons. If we really have that many, they'd work wonderfully on swarming USVs, which we already saw some tests for.

 

[Anmdt]

However, when kamikaze unmanned underwater vehicles attack you via saturation attacks, it is very difficult to attack them from the surface. Whether due to detection difficulties, their maneuverability, or the problems kamikaze UAVs face in flying at very low altitudes in the open sea, using UAVs for defensive purposes becomes impossible. Therefore, defense against saturation attacks carried out by unmanned submarines/underwater vehicles is only possible from underwater. Torpedoes, on the other hand, will enable rapid deployment and the transport of a large number of kamikaze attack vehicles.

We have seen ASELSAN's swarm logic used on kamikaze attack and reconnaissance vehicles on unmanned mini-submarines/kamikazes. As this becomes more widespread globally, the UAV-UAV warfare that began in the air will evolve into a new form in the seas in the future.

Before all we should remember that torpedoes are valuable and expendable munitions. It takes quite a lot of effort to keep a submarine stealth, unknown to the adversary and to launch a torpedo at a target - so from payload point of view it takes a lot of effort to bring them close to the enemy ship.
The next matter is torpedo itself is deadly enough and as hard as to evade / counter attack as a saturation attack and if succeeds, usually it eliminates the target as whole.
If we are talking about ship launched torpedoes then why not, but the actual torpedoes carried by a submarine is far more valuable to dispense at a saturation attack. Like i have said, i'd support a loitering and low cost unmanned underwater vehicle for the duty and if launched by ships, uavs. It is easy to replenish those.

 

[Sanchez]

far more valuable to dispense at a saturation attack

We could go for cheaper wake homing a la soviets for these, but i doubt that would work in a closed sea like med where traffic is very heavy.

 

[UkroTurk]

If we are talking about ship launched torpedoes then why not

Tuzla-class patrol boats are primarily designed to detect and counter submarine threats. For this purpose, they are equipped with ASELSAN ASW rockets and a powerful commercial sonar system.

Given their mission profile, it seems quite likely that Tuzla-class patrol boats could encounter submarine threats. But in such a situation, are the ASELSAN ASW rockets really sufficient?

These rockets are not designed to destroy an enemy submarine. Their purpose is more to force the submarine away and disrupt its mission. If that is the case, wouldn't it make sense to equip Tuzla-class boats with at least one lightweight torpedo each?

We can even see torpedoes being integrated into Türkiye's unmanned naval platforms. So why are Tuzla-class patrol boats being left without this capability?

For example, autonomous sonar receivers deployed along our coastline could detect an enemy submarine. The nearest patrol boat could then launch a torpedo from a distance of 10–15 km, without having to approach the submarine too closely.

With the current ASW rockets, however, the patrol boat apparently has to get within around 2 km of the detected threat before it can engage it.

 

[UkroTurk]

We could go for cheaper wake homing a la soviets for these, but i doubt that would work in a closed sea like med where traffic is very heavy.

We need very light weight torpedoes.
ASW rockets lack an onboard acoustic seeker; if the target moves evasively after launch, the fixed-depth explosion might miss unless the saturation area covers the error margin.

Manufacturing the Very Lightweight Torpedo | Northrop Grumman

Northrop Grumman is driving the vision for a less expensive torpedo design that's also light enough to be carried on new generations of smaller delivery platforms.

www.northropgrumman.com

 

[zio]

Developing torpedos are hard. We still have a very nice number of Mk 54s and older but very potent Mk 46s. If SIPRI is to be believed we have some 700(?) Mk 46s. But yes, we haven't heard anything of Orka for some years.

Mk 46 Mod 5s are old but good weapons. If we really have that many, they'd work wonderfully on swarming USVs, which we already saw some tests for.

Mk46 LWT is not good in islands sea and Mk54 numbers are not enough.