Bangladesh Air-Force MRCA Program

[Micheal Corleone]

So anyone think there's any possibility left for American fighters or EFT in this economic crisis and after what US and EU did?

No fighters coming until the mig 29s retire. 100 percent sure now

 

[Micheal Corleone]

Yeah, if only BAF was competence and innovative enough for out of the box thinking and a new reform.

24 Gripen for more or less $3 billion would've been a better choice than 16 Eurofighter.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.businessworld.in/article/Sweden-s-Saab-Pitches-Gripen-Fighter-Aircraft-To-India-At-Half-The-Price-Paid-For-Rafale-/01-12-2021-413505&ved=2ahUKEwi35ojo147-AhVncGwGHdiJC4YQFnoECAwQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2A9RRcFl2Milfvsq3yXDnK

1. We could make two squadron with independent operational sctrucutre. Permanently assigned them at two different air bases (preferably at Dhaka and Chottogram)

2. And at war time we could easily disperse them at multiple bases and airfields. (Enhancing the survivability of the platform and increasing the operational flexibility, in the meantime maintaining the qualitative advantage with gripen)

However, what we are talking about above would require doctrinal changes not only for the BAF, but also for all warfighting forces across the spectrum.
Bacause in reality such single engine fighter would only be best suited for A2A or A2G/A2S missions at once per individual sorties.

View attachment 55760

A2A loadout With a single fuel tank under the main fuselage (like the picture below) to increase flight hour/airborne time for CAP.

Or like this one for mainly A2G

View attachment 55761

Even though gripen technically can perform both A2A and A2G in single sortie but it is practically insufficient for a single engine light fighter. (As it won't be able to maintain 4 BVR missiles while performing dual mission in single sortie)
Especially when we are planning to go against numerically superior adversary while relying only on the qualitative age.

However, when it comes to the Eurofighter, it can effectively carry out both A2A A2G mission in single sortie somewhat sufficiently thanks to its twin engine and 14 hard point.

View attachment 55762

Changing those two fuel tanks under the wing with two NSM/JSM or scalp while adding one under the main fuselage (like the picture below)

View attachment 55763

And this is advantageous considering our Numerical limitation.

For example, in case of a conflict with Mayanmar two BAF typhoon can take off and perform deep strike/Anti ship strike while simultaneously be completely ready for CAP and A2A engagement with over the bay of bengal or at our south-eastern airspace, all in relative sufficiency in a single sortie.


Also, after receiving warning from our early warning radars about approaching potential enemy aircrafts, it is tactically time critical to climb up to the higher altitude, given our uncomfortably small Airspace and lack of strategic depth.
Specially when we will deploy some of fighters at Chottogram or Coz bazar. And twin engine jet, more specifically Eurofighter (which one of the few aircrafts that can climb up vertically) is very ideal for that.

Unlike Gripen which has quite a low thrust to weight ratio.


So, in a nutshell with single engine fighter BAF A2G/A2S strike capability would become limited, as they would likely to require escorts.

If we want BAF to become a dedicated force for Airspace denial role with single engine platforms, ( which would be a very sound strategy considering all the aspects ) that would require a revaluation of army and navy's dependency on BAF for deep strike and anti ship missions.

The question is can they do achieve those without too much dependency on BAF?

I would say yes, specially for navy. Our new frigates+new submarines ( +preferably 2/3 costal batteries ) would be sufficient enough even without air forces A2S support.

However, for army that would be more complicated.
But in my opinion, we should invest in type-A (like khan) and type-b MLRS (like TRG-300) capability to strike targets behind enemy lines. ( similar to how Ukraine did )

And this is how BAF can rightfully focus on its main strategic objective, which would be Airspace denial.

However, it would require doctrinal changes across the all spectrum.
Which is unlikely to happen.

@F-6 enthusiast Bro, what is your thoughts?

Even chat gpt agrees with you. I prodded it a lot to figure out the best platform for BAF and gripen came out on top with cost and technology advantage over rafale and euro fighter

 

[Micheal Corleone]

US fighters? No. (And there wasn't any practical chance to begin with)

EFT? Yes.
They will wait until the crisis is over and economy is more normalized. (Probably around 2025.) Also, EU didn't do anything over the top yet.

Didn't you previously thought, BAF already chose the aircraft? My instinct is also same.

By the time they place orders for eft. It’s an obsolete platform and third world air forces are choosing 5th gen options

 

[Madokafc]

Even chat gpt agrees with you. I prodded it a lot to figure out the best platform for BAF and gripen came out on top with cost and technology advantage over rafale and euro fighter

Gripen E/F is not much cheaper compared to Rafale or EFT and C/D version is not much platform itself compared to their peer. The jargon of Gripen marketing is actually lies on their touted network system'but this thing is not only their own exclusive monopoly as every single of Western Made fighter has been designed to do since their Inception.

And Sweden is a much prick when it comes to Human Rights issue and other social and enviromental issue.

 

[Afif]

By the time they place orders for eft. It’s an obsolete platform and third world air forces are choosing 5th gen options

I understand your frustration, but tbh, EF trench 4 would be still relevant in European air forces as part of FCAS until 2060.

For example, just recently Germany and Spain both ordered 38 and 20 units respectively.

 

[yf120]

Even chat gpt agrees with you. I prodded it a lot to figure out the best platform for BAF and gripen came out on top with cost and technology advantage over rafale and euro fighter

 

[Isa Khan]

May be we should just stay away from EFT and American fighter.

German coalition at odds over fighter jet sale to Saudi Arabia, Welt am Sonntag reports

Germany's coalition government is at odds over whether to bow to British pressure and approve the production of Eurofighter Typhoon fighter jets for Saudi Arabia, the newspaper Welt Am Sonntag reported on Saturday, citing anonymous sources.

www.reuters.com

 

[Isa Khan]

Is EurAsian Times a reliable source?

“Bangladesh will likely opt for a European aircraft – Eurofighter Typhoon or French Rafale. But nothing is final before the next elections,” the Bangladeshi official told the EurAsian Times. “With Rafale being operated by the Indian Air Force, the odds of a Eurofighter Typhoon have increased,” the official added.

Rafale For Bangladesh? 1st Time In 33 Years, French President Visits Dhaka As Dassault & Eurofighter Compete For BAF Deal

With Eurofighter Typhoon and Dassault Rafale locked in a competition to win the contract to supply fighter jets for Bangladesh Air Force (BAF), French President Emmanuel Macron quickly dashed to Dhaka. The visit from a French President to Bangladesh has come after 33 years. Bangladesh plans to...

www.eurasiantimes.com

 

[Afif]

Is EurAsian Times a reliable source?

“Bangladesh will likely opt for a European aircraft – Eurofighter Typhoon or French Rafale. But nothing is final before the next elections,” the Bangladeshi official told the EurAsian Times. “With Rafale being operated by the Indian Air Force, the odds of a Eurofighter Typhoon have increased,” the official added.

Rafale For Bangladesh? 1st Time In 33 Years, French President Visits Dhaka As Dassault & Eurofighter Compete For BAF Deal

With Eurofighter Typhoon and Dassault Rafale locked in a competition to win the contract to supply fighter jets for Bangladesh Air Force (BAF), French President Emmanuel Macron quickly dashed to Dhaka. The visit from a French President to Bangladesh has come after 33 years. Bangladesh plans to...

www.eurasiantimes.com

I would say low quality. Their articles contain inaccurate informations, they also get lot of technical details wrong on defence related topics.

 

[Afif]

What I found problematic is I read somewhere (probbaly here) that they are planning two different procurement deal for the aircraft and the weapon package.

If India try to block BAF from getting meteor through France its gonna be a serious problem. (Because, France liekly to go along with that given the size of Rafale order India may place in the near future. 26 for navy and 70 or more for MRFA program)

We definitely need to tie up the weapon package and main deal togather. Otherwise, given how corrupt our government is and the incompetence of BAF, we may end up with super expensive Eurofighter with no true BVR capability. (Kind of like what happen with Egyptian Ratale)

And that's gonna be the biggest strategic blunder in Bangladesh armed forces history.
Because on the other hand, I very much doubt with this government we can get AIM-120D from USA.

 

[Gary]

What I found problematic is I read somewhere (probbaly here) that they are planning two different procurement deal for the aircraft and the weapon package.

If India try to block BAF from getting meteor through France its gonna be a serious problem. (Because, France liekly to go along with that given the size of Rafale order India may place in the near future. 26 for navy and 70 or more for MRFA program)

We definitely need to tie up the weapon package and main deal togather. Otherwise, given how corrupt our government is and the incompetence of BAF, we may end up with super expensive Eurofighter with no true BVR capability. (Kind of like what happen with Egyptian Ratale)

And that's gonna be the biggest strategic blunder in Bangladesh armed forces history.
Because on the other hand, I very much doubt with this government we can get AIM-120D from USA.

Imo, (I've always maintained this btw) the future of the BAF could very well be with China. Even if you count their relationship with Burma, China's "tolerance" of advanced weapons export will always be better than the options given by the Americans or Europeans.

 

[Afif]

Imo, (I've always maintained this btw) the future of the BAF could very well be with China. Even if you count their relationship with Burma, China's "tolerance" of advanced weapons export will always be better than the options given by the Americans or Europeans.

I think ultimately we are gonna tie ourselves with Turks in the logn run.
Not for ummah brotherhood, but if KAAN and their drone programs are successfully realized, we will get the chance to immensely benefit from it. (Specially in 2035-2050 timeline.)

A capability neither USA nor PRC will liekly to sell us. Not to mentioned it would be free of those political strings.

 

[Isa Khan]

Just buy J-10 and customized F-16/new block of FA-50/Hurjet with Turkish/EU weapon. At this point expensive twin engines seem financially risky for us.

 

[Micheal Corleone]

Just buy J-10 and customized F-16/new block of FA-50/Hurjet with Turkish/EU weapon. At this point expensive twin engines seem financially risky for us.

Been saying this for years. Piss poor militsry budget like ours shouldn’t be wasted on wonderweapons. There should be a good balance of capability and affordability. J10 or gripen unless Americans offer f16 latest block generation

 

[Isa Khan]

Been saying this for years. Piss poor militsry budget like ours shouldn’t be wasted on wonderweapons. There should be a good balance of capability and affordability. J10 or gripen unless Americans offer f16 latest block generation

At this point I would be glad if they manage to buy block 60 or old block like Indonesia. 64 fighters with combo of two from East and West should be enough deterrence for 30 years. Previous chief did meet Swedish Air Force during his visit but doesn't looks like SAAB is very keen to sell Gripen. Only interest and activities from France, US, Italy & UK. But now safest and most logical choice is ordering 16 J-10 with option for 16 more and MRO.

 

[Afif]

You guys do realise that J-10 does not have qualitative match for Rafale?
India will be buying 26+72 (navy+MRFA program) more. And you can be sure IAF Eastern command will recieve at least 1 more squadron Rafale to deploy at Assam. (probbaly 2x squadron) with combat radius overlapping Bangladesh sovereign airspace. (Allowing them to conduct multidomain operation)

The advantage with Typhoon is that it does have a qualitative match for Rafale. (I would argue, Trench 4 exceeds the capabilities of Rafale F4)

Thus, I would argue for 16× typhoon trench 4 with an option for 16x more.

The reason I am strongly advocating for Typhoon is, given the fact that it is a multinational aircraft, any sort of defection from the side of provider country during any potential conflict is practically impossible. And given Bangladesh will never engage in aggression or initiate any unprovoked conflict, the possibility of sanction related problem is quite low.

Induction of two squadron Typhoon trench 4 within 2033 would provide credible areal deterrence for Bangladesh.
And two more squadron of 5th gen fighter (KAAN) by 2040 will fulfill the goal of 64× state of art 4.5th and 5th gen aircraft in the BAF inventory.

 

[yf120]

You guys do realise that J-10 does not have qualitative match for Rafale?
India will be buying 26+72 (navy+MRFA program) more. And you can be sure IAF Eastern command will recieve at least 1 more squadron Rafale to deploy at Assam. (probbaly 2x squadron) with combat radius overlapping Bangladesh sovereign airspace. (Allowing them to conduct multidomain operation)

The advantage with Typhoon is that it does have a qualitative match for Rafale. (I would argue, Trench 4 exceeds the capabilities of Rafale F4)

Thus, I would argue for 16× typhoon trench 4 with an option for 16x more.

The reason I am strongly advocating for Typhoon is, given the fact that it is a multinational aircraft, any sort of defection from the side of provider country during any potential conflict is practically impossible. And given Bangladesh will never engage in aggression or initiate any unprovoked conflict, the possibility of sanction related problem is quite low.

Induction of two squadron Typhoon trench 4 within 2033 would provide credible areal deterrence for Bangladesh.
And two more squadron of 5th gen fighter (KAAN) by 2040 will fulfill the goal of 64× state of art 4.5th and 5th gen aircraft in the BAF inventory.

bruh, typhoons don't seem to be feasible for a dumb air force like baf, and also forget deterrence, India doesn't need to care or worry about bd for the next 10/15 years at least. Even if, in a fantasy, bd gets the mentioned defence requirements, it still won't be enough because of how things are moving. The Navy has also failed to get the stealth frigate before 2025, so all these things don't seem to be random but systematically done politically.
Anyway, Isa Khan's suggestion seems realistic for the current baf and their scenario. Btw, I'm not also up for Rafale. It might be perfect for India, and I believe it is, but not definitely for BD. It might be huge regret for baf for decades including the entire armed forces, but who knows, baf has been taking regretful decisions for the last 30 years or so, right?

At this point I would be glad if they manage to buy block 60 or old block like Indonesia. 64 fighters with combo of two from East and West should be enough deterrence for 30 years. Previous chief did meet Swedish Air Force during his visit but doesn't looks like SAAB is very keen to sell Gripen. Only interest and activities from France, US, Italy & UK. But now safest and most logical choice is ordering 16 J-10 with option for 16 more and MRO.

The german aviation analyst concluded even the nato countries are not ready for the gripen yet, imagine....Looks like so far, Brazil has won the lottery somehow!!

 

[Micheal Corleone]

At this point I would be glad if they manage to buy block 60 or old block like Indonesia. 64 fighters with combo of two from East and West should be enough deterrence for 30 years. Previous chief did meet Swedish Air Force during his visit but doesn't looks like SAAB is very keen to sell Gripen. Only interest and activities from France, US, Italy & UK. But now safest and most logical choice is ordering 16 J-10 with option for 16 more and MRO.

I was thinking f16 would be good for us but then I remembered they might not even sell us the whole weapon package rendering it useless. Remember early Pakistani f16s didn’t come with radars and they were left to source it from others. So that the Israelis had a technological edge. Also they dictate the rules of engagement. J10 wouldn’t come with red tapes like that.

 

[Madokafc]

I was thinking f16 would be good for us but then I remembered they might not even sell us the whole weapon package rendering it useless. Remember early Pakistani f16s didn’t come with radars and they were left to source it from others. So that the Israelis had a technological edge. Also they dictate the rules of engagement. J10 wouldn’t come with red tapes like that.

This worry wart about US Made fighter is mostly come unfounded and has no basis at all

 

[rai456]

I was thinking f16 would be good for us but then I remembered they might not even sell us the whole weapon package rendering it useless. Remember early Pakistani f16s didn’t come with radars and they were left to source it from others. So that the Israelis had a technological edge. Also they dictate the rules of engagement. J10 wouldn’t come with red tapes like that.

The newer versions of the F16 are just as good as the Rafale or Typhoon and much cheaper to buy and operate. Americans still have better radars than the Europeans and their munitions are generally cheaper also.