TR Naval Programs

[Spook]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1444088286608297987

 

[Anmdt]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1444088286608297987

*2 is under construction, contracted.
More is planned ahead.

 

[Yasar_TR]

This is not correct. Sterling is a deadweight compared to Li-Ion batteries. You will get less energy by burning all the fuel in the Sterling setup compared to a single charge of lithium-ion batteries that are placed in the space of the sterling engine and required tanks/machinery.

Apparently, first 10 of the 12 Soryu subs have Sterling AIP. But no Li-Ion batteries. Instead they have chemical batteries.
Standard Soryu-Class is simply a modified version of the Oyashio-class with air-independent propulsion.
Soryu Class submarines’ propulsion system consists of two 8,000 horsepower Kawasaki 12 V 25/25 SB-type diesel engines and four 3,900 horsepower Kawasaki Kockums V4-275R Stirling engines. Its maximum surfaced speed is 13 knots, while its maximum submerged speed is 20 knots. The Sōryū-class can reach a range of 11,300 kilometers at a speed of 6.5 knots.

Soryu Class Submarine: Are they the best diesel-electric attack submarines in the world? - Naval Post- Naval News and Information

Soryu Class Submarine: Are they the best diesel-electric attack submarines in the world?

navalpost.com

The last two as you have pointed out have dropped the Sterling AIP drive and introduced Li-Ion batteries.
Due to their stamina, these batteries give a great deal more power at a sustained level. plus they do not create hydrogen like chemical batteries inside the sub.
But the lack of AIP will compromise the sub’s stealth and under water duration. However the Japanese naval command prefers to have a faster and quicker sub when submerged than one that needs to surface at longer intervals.
There are no distinct figures about the length of time these two new subs can stay submerged before their batteries need recharging. It is definitely longer than standard chemical batteries. But not as long as AIP powered boats.
Li-Ion batteries may have a tendency to cause fires in certain cases. But the Japanese have gone ahead with them nevertheless. Hence they must have found a solution.
The last two apparently cost 608 million dollars a piece as opposed to 488 million dollars of the AIP Soryu boats.
But the real advancement is still yet to come in the shape of “29SS”. A 710million dollar sub with jet pump propulsor..
This new sub that will follow the Soryu class will be with Li-Ion batteries and will have a pump jet propulsor system, instead of a propeller. Due to it’s shape and design the boat is claimed to be faster and more aquadynamic. Due to it’s 20 bladed jet pump propulsion it will also be 20 decibels quieter than the Soryu class.
These subs are predicted to have around 10 days submerged performance with the new Li-Ion batteries, including the advances yet to come.
But compared to AIP this is still a trade off. For more speed the submersion time is lost. Also captains of these subs would be more inclined to use higher speeds more often. This will mean quicker snorkelling for recharging. An AIP sub can stay submerged for a few weeks.
However Li-Ion batteries’ recharging times are much faster than conventional chemical ones. So snorkelling times can be much shorter.

Meet the 29SS: Japan's New Stealth Submarine

Watch out China.

nationalinterest.org

 

[Anmdt]

Apparently, first 10 of the 12 Soryu subs have Sterling AIP. But no Li-Ion batteries. Instead they have chemical batteries.
Standard Soryu-Class is simply a modified version of the Oyashio-class with air-independent propulsion.
Soryu Class submarines’ propulsion system consists of two 8,000 horsepower Kawasaki 12 V 25/25 SB-type diesel engines and four 3,900 horsepower Kawasaki Kockums V4-275R Stirling engines. Its maximum surfaced speed is 13 knots, while its maximum submerged speed is 20 knots. The Sōryū-class can reach a range of 11,300 kilometers at a speed of 6.5 knots.

Soryu Class Submarine: Are they the best diesel-electric attack submarines in the world? - Naval Post- Naval News and Information

Soryu Class Submarine: Are they the best diesel-electric attack submarines in the world?

navalpost.com

The last two as you have pointed out have dropped the Sterling AIP drive and introduced Li-Ion batteries.
Due to their stamina, these batteries give a great deal more power at a sustained level. plus they do not create hydrogen like chemical batteries inside the sub.
But the lack of AIP will compromise the sub’s stealth and under water duration. However the Japanese naval command prefers to have a faster and quicker sub when submerged than one that needs to surface at longer intervals.
There are no distinct figures about the length of time these two new subs can stay submerged before their batteries need recharging. It is definitely longer than standard chemical batteries. But not as long as AIP powered boats.
Li-Ion batteries may have a tendency to cause fires in certain cases. But the Japanese have gone ahead with them nevertheless. Hence they must have found a solution.
The last two apparently cost 608 million dollars a piece as opposed to 488 million dollars of the AIP Soryu boats.
But the real advancement is still yet to come in the shape of “29SS”. A 710million dollar sub with jet pump propulsor..
This new sub that will follow the Soryu class will be with Li-Ion batteries and will have a pump jet propulsor system, instead of a propeller. Due to it’s shape and design the boat is claimed to be faster and more aquadynamic. Due to it’s 20 bladed jet pump propulsion it will also be 20 decibels quieter than the Soryu class.
These subs are predicted to have around 10 days submerged performance with the new Li-Ion batteries, including the advances yet to come.
But compared to AIP this is still a trade off. For more speed the submersion time is lost. Also captains of these subs would be more inclined to use higher speeds more often. This will mean quicker snorkelling for recharging. An AIP sub can stay submerged for a few weeks.
However Li-Ion batteries’ recharging times are much faster than conventional chemical ones. So snorkelling times can be much shorter.

Meet the 29SS: Japan's New Stealth Submarine

Watch out China.

nationalinterest.org

Li-ion is best for mini-medium submarines and UUVs at the moment. It is tech of the future but Japanese have planned this in the beginning of the millenium and has put it into practice very recently.

Li-ions come with additional complexity of security - safety and cycle management for what they provide in capacity and high voltage needs, as well being easy to swap and maintain / repair.

 

[Saithan]

Turkey starts mass production of over 120 patrol boats - Latest News

Turkey has started mass production of 122 domestically designed patrol boats to secure the country’s coasts, the project's in charge said on Oct. 3.

www.hurriyetdailynews.com

I really hope that additionally they'll have Ada type OPV (up to apox. 60-70m or so with proper armaments.

ARES SHIPYARD - ARES 35 FPB

ares.global

Looks sleek.

 

[Combat-Master]

Turkey starts mass production of over 120 patrol boats - Latest News

Turkey has started mass production of 122 domestically designed patrol boats to secure the country’s coasts, the project's in charge said on Oct. 3.

www.hurriyetdailynews.com

I really hope that additionally they'll have Ada type OPV (up to apox. 60-70m or so with proper armaments.

ARES SHIPYARD - ARES 35 FPB

ares.global

Looks sleek.

They are even fitted with Aselsan's Denizgözü MARTI

As far I can remember, the Greek coast guards were having difficulties operating at night and had a tender to fit E/O to their boats..

 

[Saithan]

They are even fitted with Aselsan's Denizgözü MARTI
View attachment 32854 View attachment 32856

As far I can remember, the Greek coast guards were having difficulties operating at night and had a tender to fit E/O to their boats..

I know and they're going to be so good. I just don't like the idea that TCG patrol vessels are not armed (besides hand guns). Although I imagine that help would be there in minutes.

 

[Anmdt]

İ class is still staying on the same spot months after its launch.
View attachment 32454

Been to the shipyard, TCG Istanbul is in the same spot in the dry dock (that she was taken months ago) not in front of the slipway, an Ada class docked right behind it (as seen in the recent satellite images). PNS Babur and TCG Ufuk side by side at the pier right in front of the slipway.

 

[Siper>MMU]

Been to the shipyard, TCG Istanbul is in the same spot in the dry dock (that she was taken months ago) not in front of the slipway, an Ada class docked right behind it (as seen in the recent satellite images). PNS Babur and TCG Ufuk side by side at the pier right in front of the slipway.

Thanks, any further information you can give ? Progress maybe ?

 

[Anmdt]

Thanks, any further information you can give ? Progress maybe ?

Unfortunately, i haven't been to I-Class.

 

[AWP]

is the second istanbul class under construction ? because from what I know that on 2018 they cut the steel and on january 2022 it will be launched

 

[Anmdt]

is the second istanbul class under construction ? because from what I know that on 2018 they cut the steel and on january 2022 it will be launched

No, its the 1st I-Class.
2-4th will commence under the same project and will proceed faster.
Currently 2nd PN Milgem and Turkish OPV are under construction.

 

[Saithan]

No, its the 1st I-Class.
2-4th will commence under the same project and will proceed faster.
Currently 2nd PN Milgem and Turkish OPV are under construction.

Is there a free slot for laying of the keel for an Ada class ?

 

[Anmdt]

Military Shipyard undertakes OPV project, sounds like a misuse of resources. Any other shipyard out there could build an unarmed Ada class (less complicated sensors, scaled-down electronic sub-systems, and a large sundeck space for staff!) with much ease. It should have been the first of any other, combatant class, maybe a TF-2000 under construction instead…

Probably monetary reasons, it is shipyard of the Navy and they can construct it without need of a tender.
Probably 10 other hulls will be constructed by private shipyards. Izmir shipyard will also start the construction and take over some MLU.

Is there a free slot for laying of the keel for an Ada class ?

I think slipway can handle two at most. If block building is done for the other one they can start the newer.

OPV project had to be backdated as the scale of threat, particularly the east Mediterranean, kept growing. Our current fleet was deemed insufficient to carry out such a mission to control a vast maritime zone, So it was natural that the long discussed OPV vessels turned into a priority project, from out of nowhere for very many.

The issue I would like to point out though, is the officials’ choice of an almost unarmed Ada class, later to be armed, when and if necessary. The only explanation that comes to mind is that the Navy had foreseen these threats could be balanced out, or neutralized by patrol vessels, at least for the time being. In this scenario, OPVs are to be deployed in, or take over coast guard duties. Without doubt, we could carry out the mission under coast guard command, with alternative vessels costing alot less. In this regard, the coast guard had requested patrol corvettes (larger than Dost class) not so long ago, but turned down. As I remember, RMK and Dearsan’s sleek, light corvette designs were considered as likely candidates.

However, when navy undertakes this duty, one would naturally expect a far greater threat, a risk that could turn into a clash in a not-so-distant future. Contrary to earlier scenario, we definitely need armed, effective vessels right from the start. Arming OPVs in a later stage may not be a viable solution. It will be too late when sparks fill up the air. Besides, it will be far costlier, as the entire infrastructure will have to be renewed/upgraded for add-on weapons. And time consuming, vessels will be off service for an extended period of time, as in mid-life upgrade.

I could not really warm up to the idea of unarmed OPVs under the Navy. The threat we are facing is uncanny.

Coast guard has a still on-going request for lighter boats (600 tons), not the larger ones. The light frigate design has not been considered from private shipyards, in fact there is a perfect design on Ada class that can be a frigate or OPV.
The OPV choice is likely to be expected so and it is a wise move. There will be 10 and it will be enough for flexible roles.

 

[Saithan]

Well it is better to have some of them armed if not fully loaded with armaments.

 

[AWP]

Anmdt​

thank you brother , I think that the Istanbul class will follow the ada class delivery scheme that it took 14 year to deliver only 4 ada ships .

this is disappointing

 

[Turan]

Kozan Selçuk Erkan talking about Reis class submarines, Erdoğan's statements and alternatives.

 

[kenny]

Anmdt​

thank you brother , I think that the Istanbul class will follow the ada class delivery scheme that it took 14 year to deliver only 4 ada ships .

this is disappointing

A different perspective. But I don't think that will ever happen. Times changed.

 

[Spook]

From 2 months ago

 

[corsair255]

.........,the other point is aselsan have heli approaching radar?

Smart-S has a sub-mode for this purpose.