TR Navy Navy|News & Discussions

[Anmdt]

Statement from the Ministry of National Defense Regarding the Allegation of Ship Sales to Indonesia

ABOUT THE ALLEGATIONS OF SHIP SALES

Sources who also made a statement regarding the allegation of ship sales to Indonesia stated that construction of 39 ships is currently ongoing simultaneously in shipyards, adding: “This situation is a concrete indicator of our country’s determination to develop and renew its naval power with domestic and national platforms. At the DIMDEX-2026 fair held in Qatar, a memorandum of understanding (MoU) was signed between TAIS Shipyards and Qatar-based Barzan Holdings covering the construction of two Istif-class frigates. The memorandum, which includes the procurement of Turkish naval systems for Qatar and third countries, is not a finalized agreement and does not contain any provisions regarding the construction and delivery schedule of the ships.”

The sources also added that the allegations in the press do not reflect the truth.

https://www.ntv.com.tr/amp/turkiye/endonezyaya-gemi-satisi-iddiasina-msbden-aciklama-1711637

I suppose it is a "yes" or "no" question of which officials avoid answering.

It is not a recent matter, TAIS and SSB has been negotiating for the sale, for a whole year.

Besides that, ASFAT, a MSB subsidiary has sold Akhisar, and processing the sale of Koçhisar OPV as well.

Then come clean and say outright that the 7 ships allocated for Turkish navy will NOT be sold; in stead of beating around the bush.
No one believes them after the way they sold TCG Akhisar to Romania.

Not just Akhisar, obviously Koçhisar is about to be sold after completion of the trials and acceptance.

 

[Sanchez]

Navy chief will be aboard on Anadolu next week and TB3s will undertake firing drills during Steadfast Dart.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2021879515488641166

 

[TR_123456]

I suppose it is a "yes" or "no" question of which officials avoid answering.

It is not a recent matter, TAIS and SSB has been negotiating for the sale, for a whole year.

Besides that, ASFAT, a MSB subsidiary has sold Akhisar, and processing the sale of Koçhisar OPV as well.


Not just Akhisar, obviously Koçhisar is about to be sold after completion of the trials and acceptance.

Just forget it,they'll sell them in silence.
They'll find ways to make us forget and move on.
Probably by commisioning the next two earlier then planned with the excuse that we have three Istif class in service already.

 

[Anmdt]

Just forget it,they'll sell them in silence.
They'll find ways to make us forget and move on.
Probably by commisioning the next two earlier then planned with the excuse that we have three Istif class in service already.

It is sold, mate. It has been a year or more so the talks between TAIS - SSB and Indonesia have been going on (also with Qatar, recently). TAIS even brought the scaled model of the aforementioned hulls, specifically, to display at the fair.

MSB isn't even in that cycle, they are literally "cc"'ed.

 

[Khagan1923]

It is sold, mate. It has been a year or more so the talks between TAIS - SSB and Indonesia have been going on (also with Qatar, recently). TAIS even brought the scaled model of the aforementioned hulls, specifically, to display at the fair.

MSB isn't even in that cycle, they are literally "cc"'ed.

TN and MSB having no say in the ships built for them says enough about the state this country is in. And it is a miracle the foundation has not yet given in.

We are dealing with a government which treats anything that belongs to the Republic and State as if it belongs to them so they can do whatever they want with them.

Then again you have enough people shameless enough to publish propaganda for them to brainwash the uneducated masses on how this is actually the total opposite of terrible.

Same uneducated masses then will turn around and without a hint of irony defend other events because “war is coming and we need to be prepared

I’m sure the 1 Billion dollars will go 100% back into new ships and projects. I’m sure

Maybe the Navy can use the Yavuz class as ramming tools when the Navy encounters any Balharra class in the Mediterranean oder Aegean Sea.

 

[AlperTunga]

Maybe the Navy can use the Yavuz class as ramming tools when the Navy encounters any Balharra class in the Mediterranean oder Aegean Sea.

I love this! Ramming Belharras with Yavuz frigates. Given how things are evolving, this may be a viable strategy for our navy

 

[Sanchez]

I love this! Ramming Belharras with Yavuz frigates. Given how things are evolving, this may be a viable strategy for our navy

Navy still has the edge and will only widen gap in the next 5 years. Navy also operates more ISR assets, drones and will operate more shore batteries than Greece.

 

[AlperTunga]

Belharra is a biest. Istif is no match. What if Greece does not wait 5 years? How many coastal batteries did they order so far? Or is it the same theatre „ will be, will have“ in 2030, in 2035 bs. We need those weapons now.

 

[Huelague]

Belharra is a biest. Istif is no match.

In which way, give us some details?

 

[Sanchez]

Belharra is a biest. Istif is no match. What if Greece does not wait 5 years? How many coastal batteries did they order so far? Or is it the same theatre „ will be, will have“ in 2030, in 2035 bs. We need those weapons now.

Kimon and the FDI are great ships. But they are also larger oceangoing ships. Istif is a faster ship and more suited for closed seas like Med.

This a multidimensional issue. Firstly, we shouldn't expect frigates to take a big role between islands in southeast Aegean. We will see them in the north between Çanakkale and Salonica and south of Rhodes mostly. In both areas, they will mostly work as not as ASM slingers but as parts of task forces and for air defence. FDI do have a lead in air defence, at least until 2030s; but this is not a big lead and will not change the calculus much.

Istifs have 16 long range ASMs and are fast ships. With FACs on tow, they will wreak havoc on convoys. Atmaca and the networked warfare concept is monumental here. We have lots of platforms to sling lots of ASMs at lots of targets and we have shit ton of ISR assets at sea and in air. Anything we can see, we can hit from multiple axes.

Even if we sell 4 Istifs to replace them 5 years later, this equation doesn't change against us. We simply have too many ships, aircraft and drones. We need the Istifs now for operational needs(like study ABM and test Gezgin!) and to increase the sum of our capabilities against all possible actors at the same time; not to fight and win a future possible conflict against Greece.

 

[zio]

I think its added later on TCG Anadolu.

 

[AlperTunga]

In which way, give us some details?

The Hellenic Navy variant, known as the Kimon-class, is significantly more heavily armed than the standard French Navy (Marine Nationale) version, Belharra (FDI).

• VLS Capacity: The French FDI typically carries 16 Sylver A50 vertical launch cells. In contrast, Greece's "Standard 2" configuration (expected by 2027) doubles this to 32 cells, allowing for 32 Aster 30 missiles. Aster 30 has a track record of successful interceptions against high-speed, maneuvering targets and has recently demonstrated its effectiveness in real-world Red Sea engagements against ballistic and anti-ship missiles. Its active seeker and "PIF-PAF" maneuvering system allow it to intercept threats that would evade more traditional missiles.
• Point Defense: Unlike the French ships, the Greek variant includes a 21-round RAM Block 2B Close-In Weapon System (CIWS) mounted on the hangar for superior last-ditch defense.
• Incremental Upgrades: Greece took delivery of its first frigate, HS Kimon, in December 2025 in a "Standard 1" configuration. It will be progressively upgraded to Standard 2++ by 2030, integrating advanced software and Sylena Mk2 decoy systems.
• Thales SeaFire Radar:
  • Architecture: Features four fixed AESA panels mounted on a single mast, providing permanent 360-degree coverage without the blind spots or mechanical wear of rotating radars.
  • Performance: It can track over 800 objects simultaneously at ranges up to 500 km for air targets and 80 km for surface targets.
  • Specialty: It offers high-elevation coverage (up to 90°), making it exceptionally effective against ballistic missiles and steep-diving asymmetric threats.
• ASW Suite:
  • Primary Sonar: Equipped with the Kingklip Mk2 hull-mounted sonar and the world-renowned CAPTAS-4 Compact variable depth sonar (VDS).
  • Performance: The CAPTAS-4 is widely considered the gold standard for NATO navies, using low frequencies to detect quiet submarines at long ranges, even in difficult thermal layers, allowing the ship to drop the sonar below thermal layers where submarines usually hide. This makes the Kimon-class one of the most formidable anti-submarine platforms in the world.
  • The CAPTAS-4 system includes built-in, sophisticated torpedo alert functions that use automated algorithms to distinguish the specific acoustic signatures of incoming torpedoes from background sea noise.
  • The Naval Group CANTO anti-torpedo decoy, deployed via SYLENA Mk1 launchers, unlike older decoys that simply mimic the ship's noise, creates a massive, multi-frequency "acoustic field" of hundreds of false targets. This saturates the torpedo's sonar, preventing it from discriminating the actual ship and forcing it to attack the "cloud" of false targets until it runs out of fuel.
  • Weapons: Uses MU90 Impact lightweight torpedoes, known for their high speed and ability to operate in extremely shallow or deep waters.
• The most striking feature of the Belharra is its inverted bow (pierce-wave design). This serves two purposes:
  • Hydrodynamics: It improves seakeeping in high seas, allowing the ship to maintain speed without "slamming" into waves.
  • Stealth: The hull shape, combined with a very clean and integrated superstructure, significantly reduces its Radar Cross Section (RCS). It is designed to appear as a much smaller vessel on enemy radar.

 

[zio]

You can not stop akya torpedo with decoys,because of wake homing..Detection of subs is not enough,you should know geographic targeting of it.This requires at least 3 surface ship,two is not enough,one ship could be a target of torpedo so this ship would engage evasive maneuveurs,remaning ship can not target sub.

 

[Oublious]

video from the exercise.


ice on the runway...

 

[boredaf]

The Hellenic Navy variant, known as the Kimon-class, is significantly more heavily armed than the standard French Navy (Marine Nationale) version, Belharra (FDI).

• VLS Capacity: The French FDI typically carries 16 Sylver A50 vertical launch cells. In contrast, Greece's "Standard 2" configuration (expected by 2027) doubles this to 32 cells, allowing for 32 Aster 30 missiles. Aster 30 has a track record of successful interceptions against high-speed, maneuvering targets and has recently demonstrated its effectiveness in real-world Red Sea engagements against ballistic and anti-ship missiles. Its active seeker and "PIF-PAF" maneuvering system allow it to intercept threats that would evade more traditional missiles.
• Point Defense: Unlike the French ships, the Greek variant includes a 21-round RAM Block 2B Close-In Weapon System (CIWS) mounted on the hangar for superior last-ditch defense.
• Incremental Upgrades: Greece took delivery of its first frigate, HS Kimon, in December 2025 in a "Standard 1" configuration. It will be progressively upgraded to Standard 2++ by 2030, integrating advanced software and Sylena Mk2 decoy systems.
• Thales SeaFire Radar:
  • Architecture: Features four fixed AESA panels mounted on a single mast, providing permanent 360-degree coverage without the blind spots or mechanical wear of rotating radars.
  • Performance: It can track over 800 objects simultaneously at ranges up to 500 km for air targets and 80 km for surface targets.
  • Specialty: It offers high-elevation coverage (up to 90°), making it exceptionally effective against ballistic missiles and steep-diving asymmetric threats.
• ASW Suite:
  • Primary Sonar: Equipped with the Kingklip Mk2 hull-mounted sonar and the world-renowned CAPTAS-4 Compact variable depth sonar (VDS).
  • Performance: The CAPTAS-4 is widely considered the gold standard for NATO navies, using low frequencies to detect quiet submarines at long ranges, even in difficult thermal layers, allowing the ship to drop the sonar below thermal layers where submarines usually hide. This makes the Kimon-class one of the most formidable anti-submarine platforms in the world.
  • The CAPTAS-4 system includes built-in, sophisticated torpedo alert functions that use automated algorithms to distinguish the specific acoustic signatures of incoming torpedoes from background sea noise.
  • The Naval Group CANTO anti-torpedo decoy, deployed via SYLENA Mk1 launchers, unlike older decoys that simply mimic the ship's noise, creates a massive, multi-frequency "acoustic field" of hundreds of false targets. This saturates the torpedo's sonar, preventing it from discriminating the actual ship and forcing it to attack the "cloud" of false targets until it runs out of fuel.
  • Weapons: Uses MU90 Impact lightweight torpedoes, known for their high speed and ability to operate in extremely shallow or deep waters.
• The most striking feature of the Belharra is its inverted bow(pierce-wave design). This serves two purposes:
  • Hydrodynamics: It improves seakeeping in high seas, allowing the ship to maintain speed without "slamming" into waves.
  • Stealth: The hull shape, combined with a very clean and integrated superstructure, significantly reduces its Radar Cross Section (RCS). It is designed to appear as a much smaller vessel on enemy radar.

Thank you ChatGpt, however, I'm curious, which one these we won't be able to match with our own systems? Please be objective in your assessment.

 

[AlperTunga]

Thank you ChatGpt, however, I'm curious, which one these we won't be able to match with our own systems? Please be objective in your assessment.

I checked other sources. For each of these capabilities it actually tells you what would be the potential countermeasure if you ask it further. Istif is actually good in terms of cost benefit analysis. We should just continue with Midlas quadpack, install the fixed version of Cenk radar in the future and continue to update it overall. Especially, we should produce more of it now.

 

[Oublious]

Cold and slippery runway.....

 

[Yasar_TR]

I checked other sources. For each of these capabilities it actually tells you what would be the potential countermeasure if you ask it further. Istif is actually good in terms of cost benefit analysis. We should just continue with Midlas quadpack, install the fixed version of Cenk radar in the future and continue to update it overall. Especially, we should produce more of it now.

Exactly!
Istif is fast and agile and very competent. In an inland sea like Mediterranean and especially in the Aegean and the Adriatic it is of more use to us than a Kimon size frigate; particularly in numbers. So if we can increase the numbers of İstif class ships and most importantly get quad packed Hisar-D missiles in to that MIDLAS, we will have the upper hand. Also it mustn’t be forgotten that we have been receiving the ESSM latest block, point defence missiles. These are retrofittable in to our MIDLAS in quad packed form too.

TCG Istanbul to be equipped with HİSAR and ESSM Missiles | TURDEF

The TCG Istanbul (F-515) Frigate will have a 16-cell National Vertical Launch System (MDAS), which Roketsan continues to develop.

turdef.com

Another point that needs to be made is that Kimon carries a mixture of Aster15 and Aster 30 missiles. These missiles can not be quad packed. Only 24 of Kimon‘s VLS cells are used by Aster15/30 mix. The other 8 cells is for 180+km range Exocet AShM use. We have 16 slanted canisters for our 250+km Atmaca AShMs.

If instead of using AI sources, if you investigate and weigh the pluses and minuses of both ships more carefully, you will find that İstif is not just a pretty face. Only recently had I read an article written by an Italian defence correspondent weighing Kimon and İstif against Fincatieri’s 5600ton frigate and finding that in spite of it’s smaller size it packed a hell of a good punch, outclassing both ships in a number of areas, especially in closed seas full of islands.

 

[Tornadoss]

Exactly!
Istif is fast and agile and very competent. In an inland sea like Mediterranean and especially in the Aegean and the Adriatic it is of more use to us than a Kimon size frigate; particularly in numbers. So if we can increase the numbers of İstif class ships and most importantly get quad packed Hisar-D missiles in to that MIDLAS, we will have the upper hand. Also it mustn’t be forgotten that we have been receiving the ESSM latest block, point defence missiles. These are retrofittable in to our MIDLAS in quad packed form too.

TCG Istanbul to be equipped with HİSAR and ESSM Missiles | TURDEF

The TCG Istanbul (F-515) Frigate will have a 16-cell National Vertical Launch System (MDAS), which Roketsan continues to develop.

turdef.com

Another point that needs to be made is that Kimon carries a mixture of Aster15 and Aster 30 missiles. These missiles can not be quad packed. Only 24 of Kimon‘s VLS cells are used by Aster15/30 mix. The other 8 cells is for 180+km range Exocet AShM use. We have 16 slanted canisters for our 250+km Atmaca AShMs.

If instead of using AI sources, if you investigate and weigh the pluses and minuses of both ships more carefully, you will find that İstif is not just a pretty face. Only recently had I read an article written by an Italian defence correspondent weighing Kimon and İstif against Fincatieri’s 5600ton frigate and finding that in spite of it’s smaller size it packed a hell of a good punch, outclassing both ships in a number of areas, especially in closed seas full of islands.

Aren't Exocet launchers behind radar mast? Why would they need to use VLS for them?

 

[Sanchez]

Only 24 of Kimon‘s VLS cells are used by Aster15/30 mix. The other 8 cells is for 180+km range Exocet AShM use

Aren't Exocet launchers behind radar mast? Why would they need to use VLS for them?

Kimon's Sylver A70 will probably by able to house 8 McDNs. 8 Exocets are in the quad launchers behind the bridge. It will have 3x8 A50s and probably 1x8 A70 but that's not yet certain. Below infographic is outdated but shows both quad launchers and the VLS.