Defence Q&A New aircraft for the RAAF.

[avonsabre]

Now that the RAAF has 54 of its 72 F35 Lightnings. It has a requiremnt for a total of 100 aircraft. Should it purchase additional F35 's, or something else.

 

[Gary]

For a China fight B-21 is a clear necessity. F-35 lacks the leg needed for a war in the Pacific theater.

 

[avonsabre]

For a China fight B-21 is a clear necessity. F-35 lacks the leg needed for a war in the Pacific theater.

With the new engines soon to be introduced for the F35, they will have extended range etc, but will it be enough? Or should we consider some F15ex or something else?

 

[Old Codger]

For a China fight B-21 is a clear necessity. F-35 lacks the leg needed for a war in the Pacific theater.

Gary,

I cannot see a situation where the RAAF sends maybe 6x B-21s to Beijing or Hainan island etc., all to deliver a few tons of TNT. I also doubt that any of the 6 would get back to Darwin.

For me the priority #1 of the RAAF is to deter or stop a seaborne invasion, or secondly an airborne one. There will be no 'Battle of Britain' dog fights, it will be all missiles of the medium and long range category. ( As the SkunkWorks Chief once said, "I can make a perfectly good fighter aircraft out of a 747".)

The combat radius of a F-35 will take it to Indonesia and back, and any re-fuelers will not be where they are needed when they are needed, they wil be IN the ocean.

The RAAF needs serious anti-ship missiles of at least Mach 5 and a 400km+ range. Plus a mine laying capability probably based on the C-130. Second hand G models should be enough.

I expect that 'The Battle of The Arafura Sea' will be over in an hour or so.

OC

 

[500]

Gary,

I cannot see a situation where the RAAF sends maybe 6x B-21s to Beijing or Hainan island etc., all to deliver a few tons of TNT. I also doubt that any of the 6 would get back to Darwin.

For me the priority #1 of the RAAF is to deter or stop a seaborne invasion, or secondly an airborne one. There will be no 'Battle of Britain' dog fights, it will be all missiles of the medium and long range category. ( As the SkunkWorks Chief once said, "I can make a perfectly good fighter aircraft out of a 747".)

The combat radius of a F-35 will take it to Indonesia and back, and any re-fuelers will not be where they are needed when they are needed, they wil be IN the ocean.

The RAAF needs serious anti-ship missiles of at least Mach 5 and a 400km+ range. Plus a mine laying capability probably based on the C-130. Second hand G models should be enough.

I expect that 'The Battle of The Arafura Sea' will be over in an hour or so.

OC

B-21 will carry JASSM cruise missiles and LRASM anti ship missiles. So they will be able very safely attack strategic sites in Beijing and Chinese Navy ships.

 

[Old Codger]

B-21 will carry JASSM cruise missiles and LRASM anti ship missiles. So they will be able very safely attack strategic sites in Beijing and Chinese Navy ships.

They still come under the heading of TNT. Nukes are out of course, and you are still gambling maybe 4 to 6 BILLION AUDs to deliver the bang for the bucks. Lobbing a JASSM on Beijing wil be a pointless exercise I think, and the entire South China Sea will be crawling with PLAAF planes and PLAN ships.

Depending on the mission and combat radius, the B21s will need refueling, and shooting down the tankers would be a bit of a problem for the RAAF.

....and I am not getting my hopes up with this latest Defence Review just completed.

OC

 

[500]

Lobbing a JASSM on Beijing wil be a pointless exercise I think,

If you have an ability to strike Chinas strategic objects that would be a good deterrence factor.

Check whats going now in Ukraine: Russia is attacking Ukrainian electric plants and Ukraine cant strike back.

and the entire South China Sea will be crawling with PLAAF planes and PLAN ships.

B21 is stealthy so it can evade them

 

[Afif]

B21 is stealthy so it can evade them

Only if it was that easy, like you made it sound like in one sentence.

 

[Old Codger]

Now that the RAAF has 54 of its 72 F35 Lightnings. It has a requiremnt for a total of 100 aircraft. Should it purchase additional F35 's, or something else.

Upgrade our maritime strike capability with the Super Hornets, wired to top of the range anti- ship, and that does NOT mean the Harpoon. Too slow and short ranged.

Add to that a C-130 type configured for air launched sea mines. Lay them from the Sunda Strait to east of the Lombok Strait.

OC

 

[500]

Only if it was that easy, like you made it sound like in one sentence.

JASSM and LRASM have range of hundreds km. You cant detect stealthy object at such ranges.

 

[avonsabre]

Any news out of the defence Review on new equipment, planes or ships? We are leaving it aa bit late to be ordering stuff now.

 

[Gary]

Only if it was that easy, like you made it sound like in one sentence.

F-22, F-35 is VLO. Tye B-21 will be ELO (extremely low observable).

Yes it will be that easy

 

[Afif]

F-22, F-35 is VLO. Tye B-21 will be ELO (extremely low observable).

Yes it will be that easy

None of them are optimized against ultra low band radars.
PLA will definitely know they are there. Thus, they will be able to send interceptor.
No matter how low observable your platforms are it would be foolish to think any 'stand in' engagement would be cake walk.

However, if we are talking about 'stand off' strikes with jassm and lrsam then it is somewhat different matter.

 

[Old Codger]

None of them are optimized against ultra low band radars.
PLA will definitely know they are there. Thus, they will be able to send interceptor.
No matter how low observable your platforms are it would be foolish to think any 'stand in' engagement would be cake walk.

However, if we are talking about 'stand off' strikes with jassm and lrsam then it is somewhat different matter.

Agree, I cannot imagine Australia doing bombing raids on mainland China. Surely a radar operator can see an even faint contact that would indicate it is military and a threat. He will know if it is a B52 or a 747.

And the B21 is going to cost a billion a copy, probably more. Best to spend 5 or 10 billion in missiles. Taiwan is betting her very survival on missiles.

Attacks on Chinese ships and planes I can see, but best to leave the main targets to supersonic anti ship, anti air, and cruise missiles.

OC

 

[avonsabre]

Agree, I cannot imagine Australia doing bombing raids on mainland China. Surely a radar operator can see an even faint contact that would indicate it is military and a threat. He will know if it is a B52 or a 747.

And the B21 is going to cost a billion a copy, probably more. Best to spend 5 or 10 billion in missiles. Taiwan is betting her very survival on missiles.

Attacks on Chinese ships and planes I can see, but best to leave the main targets to supersonic anti ship, anti air, and cruise missiles.

OC

I have read where defence experts still expect the RAAF to be expanded. What additional aircraft should we acquire? And should we join in on the Tempest group? Should we get additional F18's, probably the E version. There is much to consider. Or do we just wait on the Defence Review?

 

[Old Codger]

I have read where defence experts still expect the RAAF to be expanded. What additional aircraft should we acquire? And should we join in on the Tempest group? Should we get additional F18's, probably the E version. There is much to consider. Or do we just wait on the Defence Review?

What is happening to the old P3C Orions? I see a role for them in the anti-ship area.

Not sure about more F18s, their role has been taken over by the F35. Make them anti-ship also. I foresee a need for a top level threat on any enemy warship within 500++ kms of the Australian coast.

Even as far as the Indonesian coast and straits.

OC

 

[avonsabre]

I have read where defence experts still expect the RAAF to be expanded. What additional aircraft should we acquire? And should we join in on the Tempest group? Should we get additional F18's, probably the E version. There is much to consider. Or do we just wait on the Defence Review?

 

[avonsabre]

Gary,

I cannot see a situation where the RAAF sends maybe 6x B-21s to Beijing or Hainan island etc., all to deliver a few tons of TNT. I also doubt that any of the 6 would get back to Darwin.

For me the priority #1 of the RAAF is to deter or stop a seaborne invasion, or secondly an airborne one. There will be no 'Battle of Britain' dog fights, it will be all missiles of the medium and long range category. ( As the SkunkWorks Chief once said, "I can make a perfectly good fighter aircraft out of a 747".)

The combat radius of a F-35 will take it to Indonesia and back, and any re-fuelers will not be where they are needed when they are needed, they wil be IN the ocean.

The RAAF needs serious anti-ship missiles of at least Mach 5 and a 400km+ range. Plus a mine laying capability probably based on the C-130. Second hand G models should be enough.

I expect that 'The Battle of The Arafura Sea' will be over in an hour or so.

OC

What if our rockets and bombs had F.A.E. instead of tnt?

 

[Old Codger]

What if our rockets and bombs had F.A.E. instead of tnt?

What is the difference?

We send a missile full of TNT, or a missile with FAE, and all we get is a big or bigger bang.

Hardly any escalation at all really.

We risk a US$1 Billion + plane to deliver a 100 feet blast area for a 200 feet blast area.

OC