TR Politics

[Elaser]

You are avoiding a large set of facts as you put an entire blame on past governments for our Republic’s failures.

You are basically ignoring the fact that self-governing was too much of a burden on the shoulders of a mistreated, incapacitated society back in 1920s, 30s. And do not underestimate the trauma of a lost world war and a devestated infrastructure to set the basis of a brand new republic.

With such a dark mindset this naive people could never internalize virtues of a democracy.

The leadership made it easy through 20s and 30s. But when it was time to take over the responsibility, things all of a sudden became an enigma. The naive, ready-to-belive nature of this people (and religious tendencies) created a perfect hunting ground for predators, the never-content politicians.

And these politicians were very skilled in convincing people that they had no alternatives, and any close contact with their opponents (or the enemies of the state!) would mean to-collaborate with external forces and terror groups, therefore a hard blow to national security.

We have this tendency to follow politicians, so-called leaders (even those missing required merits) through hardship, and maybe for too long. That is because it is easy, not to take the responsibility. It never occurs to us that a collective mind would present a far greater tool/power to overcome.

We agree a lot but disagree on this:

Those failures are nothing more than an outcome of our choices…

The intelligentsia are supposed to lead a country. THere are worse examples of countries that did manage to achieve succes gradually. Korea was in a much worse state than Turkey and look were south korea is now. They had no naive politicians like inonu that democratized TUrkey too soon. Instead they slowly worked towards democracy...

It is not a problem of the people because the majority of people are too stupid and naive or do not want to understand reality of life. it is the responsibility of 1. politicians, 2. intellectual elite to guide the masses. The politcians sold TUrkey out to the US and many turks had to leave their country to find work elsewhere...

Turkish politicians didn't help Turkish pioneers that could be an example for their country like demirag, hurkus, divarci etc...

Now turkey plays catch-up 65 years too late...

 

[Elaser]

I see hardly any correlation between our situation and far-east Asia’s miraculous rise. South Korea‘s success is overrated in many ways.

I wans't expecting this bad view from someone like you tbh... perhaps the truth is too painful for you to admit that south korea is a much bigger succes story than Turkey even if they started off worse in every form than TUrkey?

Several countries at the fringe of the communist block at the time were massively supported by the West (particularly the US) as a leverage against USSR (recently the adversary is China). These countries received a great deal of foreign aid, direct investment, and know-how. They never had to go through an identity crisis as we had in the 60s, and 70s. National sovereignty, no matter what, nor an ever-growing Soviet threat was up there at the top of their political agenda.

Like Turkey? are you so blind to see that what you describe applies to Turkey 100%? Why are you ignoring this fact? YOu are dissapointing me so hard...

We have never given a chance to new faces, nor alternative organizations within the system, such as the New Democracy Movement (Yeni Demokrasi Hareketi) and its leader, Boyner. I was involved in this organization till the party was resolved. It is hard to describe the extend of the collective intellectual power behind Boyner, but the party lost big time for the very sama reason. Even if it succeeded, the system would eat them alive.

LOL boyner could do nothing because he was too late in political scene. Ozal was a bigger succes than him. By this time seculairzation was dead and buried and Turkish masses stayed religious and conservative so islamist politics is the logical outcome like refah and then AKP...

It is also true that many a revolutionist never had a chance to realize their ideals in their lline of work, but that would be the subject of a very thick file. In this regard, it all comes down to our choices, again.

Turkey didn't and doesn't need idealistic revolutionists but realists. Someone like Evren was needed in 1938 so that someone like Inonu could be the leader in 1980 without causing societal and political problems because turkish population would by then be matured politically and secularly... But unfortunatley, the reverse happened....

So now AKP is the best Tukrey can have and they have achieved the biggest succeses for turkey since 1938... No one else can do that or even better... Trying to change this would be foolish and detrimental for Turkey...

 

[Elaser]

I would like to think I am pretty neutral in my words. And by the word revolutionist, I have meant someone in search of a greater achievement in his line of work, and not an activist.

“LOL boyner could do nothing because he was too late in political scene. Ozal was a bigger succes than him. By this time seculairzation was dead and buried and Turkish masses stayed religious and conservative so islamist politics is the logical outcome like refah and then AKP...”

This is exactly my point! I have avoided any political reference…

 

[GoatsMilk]

Yeah, that's my point. Turkey has the potential for its citizens to do and have better but you seem to think that Turkey only deserves governments that excel at awful things like the above.

Japanese are no more a hive-mind than anyone else. Turks are originally from Asia too, don't forget. We share more than a little bit with the likes of Koreans, Chinese and the Japanese.

To be fair to Turkey, she never had it as easy as Japan or Korea. The americans dropped atom bombs on Japan, then the americans built the country up and opened every door to her. South Korea found a similar path.

Compare that with Turkey who since her creation which was fought with great sacrifice, has had constant trouble whether political, economic or militarily against her.

Turkey has had a hard birth and continues to have one. The downside is we are hamstrung, but the advantage is we are a nation that can deal with great turmoil, this nation will not break at the site of war.

However corruption and ignorance is our greater enemies. Corruption causes the nation to rot from within, but it is ignorance that allows it all to happen.

 

[Elaser]

(Note to editor: not really my style, but I am having so much fun)

Tactics on how to get on top in any discussion:
- Break the topic into smaller pieces you can swallow.
- Avoid the content, or what the man has to say, by any possible means.
-Resort to this handbook if you cannot figure out an alternative topic to change the subject.
-Pull out a part or parts of the outline, so the context lo longer makes sense.
-Play around with words, until it becomes confusing enough to fool your brothers in arms.
-Avoid eye contact with the man, always address your supporters.
-If you fail to convince them, go back to the beginning and try again.
-If you are sure you have created enough confusion, it is time to step aside and play the three monkies.
-Keep asking unrelated questions so the discussion never goes back to its focus.
-These tactics are tried and tested to good effect in the field, but if your guts tell you that you are about to dodge the bullet, run, as fast as you can.

I guess I need to remind myself, time and time again, that it may as well be a waste of time trying to communicate (with no prejudice) with fixated brains.

selfdeception is a pain in the ***

 

[Elaser]

I would advice that you refrain from such wording, please.

You forgot one tactic:

- Edit post so much that is changes it entirely

 

[GoatsMilk]

AK party are the party of thieves, no rational mind can deny that. As far as Islam is concerned, you cannot be a thieve and liar and follow in the path of Allah.

After 20 years of mis management the economy continues to melt away, while ak party and his cronies became billionaires.

As for this stability? What stability? Since AK party we have had nothing but instability, wars, terrorists, so called coups, international sanctions and political games against us. We have had no stability whatsoever. The only stability Turkey has seen is that AK party have been able to cheat and steal while politically failing for the past 20 years.

The syria war has been with us for 10 years leading to millions of refugees and countless terrorist attacks from that place.

What "stability" are these clowns on about? This last decade was some of the most unstable years the Turkish republic has witnessed.

 

[GoatsMilk]

If these years under AK party are considered "stable" years jesus christ i would hate to see unstable years.

These stable years have given us record lira depreciation after record lira depreciation.

Its given us the Syrian fiasco which after 10 years still has no end in sight.

It gave us a country that built the KRG only for that same country to push for independence.

Its seen us destroy all our regional relations where Turkey is enemies with nearly everyone at once. The only country on earth who has to worry about both the USA and Russia attacking her.

These years have given us millions of refugees, turning Turkey into the worlds largest refugee dustbin.

These years saw Turkeys international reputation hit the lowest is may have ever been. Who remembers all the crazy "islamist" outbursts from erdogan which turned Turkey into an international joke?

These years gave us Isis attacks within Istanbul and Ankara to add to all the other terrorist attacks.

These years gave us the "failed peace process" that promised autonomy for the pkk in the south of Turkey, one step away from full blown separation.

These years gave us FETO infiltrating the entire state, leading to false charges being brought against patriots where they would be thrown in jail.

Then when FETO and AK party split, it gave us the so called coup leading to hundreds of dead and Turkey internationally looking like a banana republic.

We had the GEZI protests leading to nation wide riots where the state came down onto the people worse then china.

I could go on and on and on and on.

The people who are talking about stability under AK party are absolutely crazy. We have had disaster after disaster under these fake islamists. You people are brainwashed if you think these years are stable.

 

[CAN_TR]

• Economic meltdown reached record levels in Republic history without sanctions, even worse than after Operation Atilla.
• Country turned into a refugee center, opening the borders and getting fooled by the EU.
• Personel ideology of one man destroyed important relations with a lot of countries.
• Even though FETO was inside TSK and other state institutions before the current Gov. they infiltrated higher ranks during their reign.
• Balyoz, Ergenekon and arresting and assasinations of hundreds of high ranking Military and Intelligence officers without any evidence.
• The so called "peace process" which again gave terrorists opportunity to infiltrate the country, later sparked the Hendek Operations.
• The shameful events where terrorists passed through Turkish soil and laid the foundation of a PKK state in Syria that's supported by our "allies".
• Messing up the Judiciary, Education, selling state property, corruption records, secretly founding a parallel state...

Everything achieved in 20 years, bravo
They went full retard after 2010. The aftermath of their policies are becoming a national threat.

 

[GoatsMilk]

• Economic meltdown reached record levels in Republic history without sanctions, even worse than after Operation Atilla.
• Country turned into a refugee center, opening the borders and getting fooled by the EU.
• Personel ideology of one man destroyed important relations with a lot of countries.
• Even though FETO was inside TSK and other state institutions before the current Gov. they infiltrated higher ranks during their reign.
• Balyoz, Ergenekon and arresting and assasinations of hundreds of high ranking Military and Intelligence officers without any evidence.
• The so called "peace process" which again gave terrorists opportunity to infiltrate the country, later sparked the Hendek Operations.
• The shameful events where terrorists passed through Turkish soil and laid the foundation of a PKK state in Syria that's supported by our "allies".
• Messing up the Judiciary, Education, selling state property, corruption records, secretly founding a parallel state...

Everything achieved in 20 years, bravo
They went full retard after 2010. The aftermath of their policies are becoming a national threat.

What's clear for me personally is that all islamist gangs must be investigated. Turkey cannot afford more Islamic gangs to enter politics. FETO and AK party almost killed the Turkish republic in less then 10 years of working together.

 

[TheInsider]

Erdoğan will cease to exist politically after 2023 unless he goes for a coup so there is no need to be sad.

 

[Turko]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1448148349128003588

 

[Sinan]

AK party are the party of thieves, no rational mind can deny that. As far as Islam is concerned, you cannot be a thieve and liar and follow in the path of Allah.

After 20 years of mis management the economy continues to melt away, while ak party and his cronies became billionaires.

As for this stability? What stability? Since AK party we have had nothing but instability, wars, terrorists, so called coups, international sanctions and political games against us. We have had no stability whatsoever. The only stability Turkey has seen is that AK party have been able to cheat and steal while politically failing for the past 20 years.

The syria war has been with us for 10 years leading to millions of refugees and countless terrorist attacks from that place.

What "stability" are these clowns on about? This last decade was some of the most unstable years the Turkish republic has witnessed.

Now, i wouldn't get that far....

There was indeed stability in AKP's first two terms. Between 2002-2010. Dollar was 1.5 TL in 2002 and it was 1.5 lira in 2010. Meanwhile GDP quadrupled and GDP per capita tripled.

Life was good at that time, economy was good. Me and everyone i knew was content with their lives.

Then we came to these famous words "Power corrupts. Absolute power, absolutely corrupts." If Erdogan had entrusted party to a proniment figure like Ali Babacan and retired after his 2nd term, he would be remembered as a legend in the history."

 

[Sinan]

They went full retard after 2010. The aftermath of their policies are becoming a national threat.

This.

I would say between 2002 and 2010 AKP had been the best government after Ataturk's rule. After 2010 they had been the worst government in the republican era.

 

[Sinan]

Tügva officials send their wives to the TV program "Who wants to be a millionaire"

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1448959123610083328

They are robbing the country in any way they can find.

 

[Manomed]

Egyptian security sources:

“We asked the United States and some European countries to help us stop the deal on Turkey's sale of drones to Ethiopia. Any agreement should be negotiated and clarified between Ankara and Cairo.”

- Reuters -

everything went with egypt is gone thanks to akp again


Ok tb-2 domestic national export thank you, Egypt is a very critical country with neighbor status in Libya and the Mediterranean, apart from being one of the countries that Turkey exports the most and the Turkish Private Sector benefits the most, regardless of what it is.

By doing this, nothing is being done but pushing the balance of power in the region against Turkey.

So, it's hard not to think that the goal is not Turkey, but to enrich Bayraktar.

 

[Manomed]

Tügva officials send their wives to the TV program "Who wants to be a millionaire"

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1448959123610083328

They are robbing the country in any way they can find.

LOOK AT THIS

 

[guest12]

 

[Lool]

Egyptian security sources:

“We asked the United States and some European countries to help us stop the deal on Turkey's sale of drones to Ethiopia. Any agreement should be negotiated and clarified between Ankara and Cairo.”

- Reuters -

everything went with egypt is gone thanks to akp again


Ok tb-2 domestic national export thank you, Egypt is a very critical country with neighbor status in Libya and the Mediterranean, apart from being one of the countries that Turkey exports the most and the Turkish Private Sector benefits the most, regardless of what it is.

By doing this, nothing is being done but pushing the balance of power in the region against Turkey.

So, it's hard not to think that the goal is not Turkey, but to enrich Bayraktar.

Hm......
So what you are saying is that we should let Turkey be dragged around like a dog by a country that is inferior in all terms just because it holds the key to the Med East? You do realise that the Egyptian president has a really bad record of abuses and is a ruler, whom if the West didnt support, will die by the hands of the people the next day? You do realise that even if Turkey did everything Egypt wants, Egypt may not do anything Turkey wants in order to please France! If Turkey started to act like a bitch, it will always remain a bitch in the eyes of such arabian people
Rn, Egypt's foreign policy isnt based on what is best for Egypt, but rather what is best for the ruling party!

It is better to let the Egyptians know that Turkey can really hurt Egypt if it wants to do so. This will mean that the Egyptians will be wary to not antagonise the Turks
And the prime example of this is the UAE
UAE didnt even think of Turkey as anything other than a slave to the US just like with other countries. However, now that Turkey armed all the enemies of the UAE and disrupted their plans throughout the African continent, the UAE became aware to not antagonise Turkey and are now seeking a "Refriendship"
Only when you are strong, will ppl actually fqing respect you
The AKP did the right thing by selling Tb2 to Ethiopia as it shows that Turkey has integrity, rights, honour, and can screw anyone it wants

If we followed your foreign policy beliefs, Turkey will just be used as some sort of a whore in a brothel -a once in a usage time- or to say that they will enjoy seeing Turkey trying to be friendly and squeeze everything they can from Turkey and at the end of the road, Egypt will just give the middle finger to Turkey and continue to su*k France's di** for international support (no offense meant to anyone, it is just a metaphor for explanatory intentions)
Turkey needs to show that it can screw some1 off if needed
Just like how Turkey arms Ukraine against Russia or screws the YPG
If we followed your foreign policy beliefs, then Turkey wouldnt touch the YPG and would bow to Russia as well as the US

I apologise for the language in case I offended anyone

 

[CAN_TR]

New parallel groups/tarikat members within TSK/EGM. Entering the military without exams, sounds faimilar...

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1449803258395074562

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1449804009380921345

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1449816598118871046

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1449817576700264458