TR Politics

[Tonyukuk]

yep, but you convinietly ignore that conditions have changed both in Turkey and Syria and that is not actual any more, CHP/HDP alliance will recognize rojava by the conditions of current political realities and you need to cope with that fact.

So you prefer AKP leaving YPG to grow, and also allowing south-east Turkey to fall into full autonomy rather than a transactional alliance between CHP and HDP, which is literally only happening because of elections?

You need to cope with the fact that AKP has been in bed with PKK before, and only uses operations to gain votes rather than for the security of nation.

Elections coming up? Start an operation! Otherwise just let our troops become sitting ducks and complain about CHP all day.

 

[mulj]

So you prefer AKP leaving YPG to grow, and also allowing south-east Turkey to fall into full autonomy rather than a transactional alliance between CHP and HDP, which is literally only happening because of elections?

You need to cope with the fact that AKP has been in bed with PKK before, and only uses operations to gain votes rather than for the security of nation.

Elections coming up? Start an operation! Otherwise just let our troops become sitting ducks and complain about CHP all day.

that is absurd, akp run goverment is the only one which does something to disrupt supported ypg state by russia and usa, while on the other hand strongest opposition block is in favor another kurdish state on your borders. akp effectively removed pkk from Turkey after decades of terror and human lives losses and fight them 100 km deep in Iraq which is another thing that CHP/HDP wants to abolish. You can deny obvious but reality oppose you.
Akp was in bad with Kurds on the base of good faith and it helped much more then simple nationalistic position of previous goverments.

 

[Turko]

yep, but you convinietly ignore that conditions have changed both in Turkey and Syria and that is not actual any more, CHP/HDP alliance will recognize rojava by the conditions of current political realities and you need to cope with that fact.

Why don't you destroy Rojava while you are having authority?

Wait you can't because you invited F-15s of Saudi Air Force to İncirlik in order to destroy Syria.
Akp supporters and Erdoğan are the founder of Rojava.

I perfectly remember those days in defence.pk how i was screaming " Saudians fully support Kurdistan project" but again we were called " Kemalist ".

 

[Tonyukuk]

that is absurd, akp run goverment is the only one which does something to disrupt supported ypg state by russia and usa, while on the other hand strongest opposition block is in favor another kurdish state on you borders. akp effectively removed pkk from Turkey after decades of terror and human lives losses and fight them 100 km deep in Iraq which is another thing that CHP/HDP wants to abolish. You can deny obvious but reality oppose you.

You do realise that Turkey conducted operations deep in Iraq long before AKP was a thing? You do realise that PKK was almost finished until AKP made peace with them, allowing them to rearm, ultimately costing thousands of lives for nothing.. You do realise that Erdogan personally demaned that that security forces should not touch PKK terrorists, even as they were laying thousands of IEDs...

The fact that you're from Bosnia, yet you think you know better than those who live in Turkey is just ridiculous. Buddy, just face it. Erdoğan is a traitor and always has been. His pocket is all that matters to him.

Imagine your son dying to a PKK IED just because Erdogan ordered the police, army and jandarma not to touch them... You know that we list hundreds of troops and civilians because of this? Oh but who cares, "ERDOGAN LAST OTTOMAN. ERDOGAN GOOD"

 

[mulj]

Why don't you destroy Rojava while you have authority?

Wait you can't because you invited F-15s of Saudi Air Force to İncirlik in order to destroy Syria.
Akp supporters and Erdoğan are the founder of Rojava.

I perfectly remember those days in defence.pk how i was screaming " Saudians fully support Kurdistan project" but again we were called " Kemalist ".

so, you think CHP/HDP will show middle finger to Russia and USA and crush them instead establishing diplomatic relations, which one is more realistic?

do not what exactly you implying with this Saudi snippet but Turkey had nothing to the with initial Syrian mess which created ypg state, only reactionary actions first couple of years, only after 2016 some more shaping and active role by Turkey, do not see how it is guilt of AKP that they were ambivalent in the initial year because it was primarily fight between Arabs .

 

[mulj]

You do realise that Turkey conducted operations deep in Iraq long before AKP was a thing? You do realise that PKK was almost finished until AKP made peace with them, allowing them to rearm, ultimately costing thousands of lives for nothing.. You do realise that Erdogan personally demaned that that security forces should not touch PKK terrorists, even as they were laying thousands of IEDs...

The fact that you're from Bosnia, yet you think you know better than those who live in Turkey is just ridiculous. Buddy, just face it. Erdoğan is a traitor and always has been. His pocket is all that matters to him.

Imagine your son dying to a PKK IED just because Erdogan ordered the police, army and jandarma not to touch them... You know that we list hundreds of troops and civilians because of this? Oh but who cares, "ERDOGAN LAST OTTOMAN. ERDOGAN GOOD"

i do, but explicit initiative from CHP/HDP is to come back on 10km security corridor in Iraq or something like that. totally unnecessary and dangerous move by them.

i never claimed that i know more then people who lives in Turkey, that is rather insulting to imply, always acted upon presented information and within my own judgement based on those in good will towards turkish nation, if i am wrong sometimes i accept that and do not mind to be corrected.

last sentence is appealing on emotions and i could understand that but i will reply with question, could you provide statistics of terrorist attacks in Turkey within last 10 years done by PKK?

 

[Turko]

so, you think CHP/HDP will show middle finger to Russia and USA and crush them instead establishing diplomatic relations, which one is more realistic?

do not what exactly you implying with this Saudi snippet but Turkey had nothing to the with initial Syrian mess which created ypg state, only reactionary actions first couple of years, only after 2016 some more shaping and active role by Turkey, do not see how it is guilt of AKP that they were ambivalent in the initial year because it was primarily fight between Arabs .

Stop putting together CHP with HDP. They are two different parties.

CHP had been showing middle finger USA and its allies before Syria was destroyed.
Also yesterday CHP showed fully support of united Syria against imperialism.


The fact that Erdoğan with USA/KSA destroyed Syria is obvious for everyone but except blind partizans.

 

[Tonyukuk]

could you provide statistics of terrorist attacks in Turkey within last 10 years done by PKK

I don't have a list, but I believe they peaked in 2015-2016 after the peace-process ended. Most of our casualties were because of IEDs.

Security in the south-east was practically non-existent during the peace process. Which allowed PKK to dig in and set up traps.

 

[mulj]

Stop putting together CHP with HDP. They are two different parties.

CHP had been showing USA and its allies before Syria was destroyed.
Also yesterday CHP showed fully support of united Syria against imperialism.


The fact that Erdoğan with USA/KSA destroyed Syria is obvious for everyone but except blind partizans.

Why should i when they are in coalition and vote the same in parlament?

1974 for was almost 50 years ago, today i can see that they are on same page with USA for kurdish state in Syria.

How Erdogan did that, he rallied millions of people on streets of Syria and fired bullets on them in some DC comic diabolic situation?

 

[mulj]

I don't have a list, but I believe they peaked in 2015-2016 after the peace-process ended. Most of our casualties were because of IEDs.

Security in the south-east was practically non-existent during the peace process. Which allowed PKK to dig in and set up traps.

and that is why they are routed completely and now you have peace there, it was masterstroke, pkk was exposed in explicit way and gone for good.

 

[Tonyukuk]

and that is why they are routed completely and now you have peace there, it was masterstroke, pkk was exposed in explicit way and gone for good.

Right, a master-stroke, or 4D chess...

No, it wasn't. I can't believe what I just read.

Yeah, imagine if terrorists in for example Bosnia, were allowed to set up bombs and import weapons for years. And then thousands of civilians and troops lose their lives just so you can expose how bad the terrorists are.

Wow, just pure retardation here.

Twice, PKK was saved by AKP. Twice. Every liar needs a bogeyman in order to survive. Just like FETÖ, PKK benefits AKP by being a greater evil than itself. Funnily enough, both FETÖ and PKK have been in bed with AKP.

It's a classic tactic by dictators to keep the bogeyman alive in order to be able to manipulate the population. If YPG was destroyed already, then all of a sudden AKP fanatics would care a lot more about the economy and other internal issues.

This is why we need the military and government to be independent of eachother. Security, both internal and external, should not be a tool of polticitians. We can not wait for election time to start and then suddenly launch an operation.

 

[mulj]

Right, a master-stroke, or 4D chess...

No, it wasn't. I can't believe what I just read.

Yeah, imagine if terrorists in for example Bosnia, were allowed to set up bombs and import weapons for years. And then thousands of civilians and troops lose their lives just so you can expose how bad the terrorists are.

Wow, just pure retardation here.

Twice, PKK was saved by AKP. Twice. Every liar needs a bogeyman in order to survive. Just like FETÖ, PKK benefits AKP by being a greater evil than itself. Funnily enough, both FETÖ and PKK have been in bed with AKP.

It's a classic tactic by dictators to keep the bogeyman alive in order to be able to manipulate the population. If YPG was destroyed already, then all of a sudden AKP fanatics would care a lot more about the economy and other internal issues.

This is why we need the military and government to be independent of eachother. Security, hoth internal and external, should not be a tool of polticitians. We can not wait for election time to start and then suddenly launch an operation.

it is what it is. i know i cornered you with pure arguments and you had to resort to the unrelated stuff from past and your own assumptions without foundation in facts, sorry if it was offensive.

 

[Anastasius]

and that is why they are routed completely and now you have peace there, it was masterstroke, pkk was exposed in explicit way and gone for good.

Mulj, I do believe UkroTurk and Tonyukuk pointed out that the PKK threat in Turkey was virtually nonexistent before the 2010s and AKPs mess-up. The fact that eastern Turkey was in a borderline civil war situation in 2016/2016 is because of AKP creating an issue where there previously was none. Additionally, it did not expose anything. Turkey literally gets more grief about "bullying Kurds" for targeting the PKK now than it did at any other time in its history.

 

[mulj]

Mulj, I do believe UkroTurk and Tonyukuk pointed out that the PKK threat in Turkey was virtually nonexistent before the 2010s and AKPs mess-up. The fact that eastern Turkey was in a borderline civil war situation in 2016/2016 is because of AKP creating an issue where there previously was none. Additionally, it did not expose anything. Turkey literally gets more grief about "bullying Kurds" for targeting the PKK now than it did at any other time in its history.

Sure, that is why i asked for statistics, numbers do not lie. I beg to differ, lot of positive outcomes of that temporary crysis in regards of pkk position within Turkey, they were forced to go in full political and pacified mode along the HDP party and ceased to exist as armed gang.

 

[Stimpy75]

Stop putting together CHP with HDP. They are two different parties.

CHP had been showing middle finger USA and its allies before Syria was destroyed.
Also yesterday CHP showed fully support of united Syria against imperialism.


The fact that Erdoğan with USA/KSA destroyed Syria is obvious for everyone but except blind partizans.

for real? chp not with hdp? i hate this political thread, always had and always will
chp= Atatürk ün askeri? more like pkk supporters..they would literally burn down our country just to get rid of Erdo
who lives in İstanbul? i do! and the last years "herşey bokdan oldu"
i just write here to see what chp lovers pov is when they were against the tezgere
chp is not hdp, but they act the same way
did you hear or see what that pos özger özel did? no? or how chp voted?no?
but Atatürk ün askeri.....(now i wanted to write sth which mods i am 100 % sure would delete)
i wont answer or write anything , and i always stay away from this topic, but i was just curious how the reaction of chp fanboys is when their beloved party just really f...up, because this is a sceme i always noticed, and i again was right

why is it always when chp really fucks up the last 24-48 hours all you chp lovers get silent???

 

[POOTIN]

Mulj, I do believe UkroTurk and Tonyukuk pointed out that the PKK threat in Turkey was virtually nonexistent before the 2010s and AKPs mess-up. The fact that eastern Turkey was in a borderline civil war situation in 2016/2016 is because of AKP creating an issue where there previously was none. Additionally, it did not expose anything. Turkey literally gets more grief about "bullying Kurds" for targeting the PKK now than it did at any other time in its history.

According to Google scholar, the calmest period, period without incidents, was the during the 'peace process'

There's a dataset here you guys can make an easy line graph plot of, I don't think such a dataset exists elsewhere:

TPCONED : the Turkish State-PKK conflict event dataset - WRAP: Warwick Research Archive Portal

wrap.warwick.ac.uk

There were still incidents and deaths beforehand under the AKP anyway.

The limitation of this data is that it is only incidents that caused deaths that can be cross-referenced, it seems a bit low in places.

 

[Manomed]

According to Google scholar, the calmest period, period without incidents, was the during the 'peace process'

There's a dataset here you guys can make an easy line graph plot of, I don't think such a dataset exists elsewhere:

TPCONED : the Turkish State-PKK conflict event dataset - WRAP: Warwick Research Archive Portal

wrap.warwick.ac.uk

There were still incidents and deaths beforehand under the AKP anyway.

The limitation of this data is that it is only incidents that caused deaths that can be cross-referenced, it seems a bit low in places.

Akp held tsk hostage for years against pkk Most of the pkk ambush videos and others were from 2015

 

[POOTIN]

Akp held tsk hostage for years against pkk Most of the pkk ambush videos and others were from 2015

But this was when the peace process collapsed, no? Or was it during?

According to this data it was a few years with zero deaths. But I don't know much about peace process timeline

 

[Manomed]

But this was when the peace process collapsed, no? Or was it during?

According to this data it was a few years with zero deaths. But I don't know much about peace process timeline

After peace process collapsed PKK rapidly started attacking our troops In the peace time they positioned themself etc

 

[Turko]

for real? chp not with hdp? i hate this political thread, always had and always will
chp= Atatürk ün askeri? more like pkk supporters..they would literally burn down our country just to get rid of Erdo
who lives in İstanbul? i do! and the last years "herşey bokdan oldu"
i just write here to see what chp lovers pov is when they were against the tezgere
chp is not hdp, but they act the same way
did you hear or see what that pos özger özel did? no? or how chp voted?no?
but Atatürk ün askeri.....(now i wanted to write sth which mods i am 100 % sure would delete)
i wont answer or write anything , and i always stay away from this topic, but i was just curious how the reaction of chp fanboys is when their beloved party just really f...up, because this is a sceme i always noticed, and i again was right

why is it always when chp really fucks up the last 24-48 hours all you chp lovers get silent???

You quoted my post so it means i hadn't been silent. İf you have read previous posts about the Mandate, you could have seen how Republicans were proud of CHP for its anti-emperyalist stance against destroying Syrian Arap Republics.

PKK supporters are the ones who destroyed Syria and founded Syrian Kurdistan where your soldiers even dare stepping.

We didn't forget Habur courts.

I'm in İstanbul for 4 months , every district is connected with subway but there is no help of government budget or subcontractor bodies who suck İstanbul metropolitan.

You hate this thread because you also see your party failing.