TR Propulsion Systems

[Yasar_TR]

What's wrong with getting assistance from Ukraine? Manufacturing capability is one thing, what Swiss watchmakers call "Savoir-Faire" (know-how) is another. Know-how is accumulated, sometimes over centuries; capability can be transferred. Ukrainians have a long history of designing and manufacturing aviation engines and they can probably teach us a few things that GE isn't so eager to share. I think it's a good idea.

Do you want to learn how to produce a Lada when you are geared up to produce and being taught how to produce a Mercedes S class ?

Our only deficiency is the lack of an eco system to produce a complete jet engine. You need a long line of manufacturers/subcontractors that can produce every bit of small accessories and parts that are too costly for TEI to produce in house.
Unfortunately we don’t have it. But the Ukrainians do.
Manufacturing of Ukranian engines will not teach us anything. It will not teach TEI how to produce a Blisk Fan or a combustion chamber that can be produced by additive technologies. Soviet era technology is few decades behind the tech TEI is using. TEI will never get their hands on technology on how to integrate CMC parts in to an engine by producing Ukrainian engines.
Since the collapse of Soviets, Ukrainian Motor Sich or Ivchenko Progress have not successfully produced/developed a new engine. They still produce what they were producing in Soviet Era.

 

[what]

Not an expert, more from a business point of view. Even if they have not developed something high-tech in a while, I'm sure they have engineers and manpower that could be used and that could share valuable input on our own engine. Similar to how Brazils Akaer contributed to KAAN. Anything, really, if we want to keep the tight schedule.

Ukrainians engineers might not cost thousands of Euros per hour as the BAE engineers probably did.

 

[Baryshx]

I think there is nothing wrong with getting help from Ukrainian engineers. Two heads are better than one.

In fact, I hope there is cooperation on space and missile issues.

 

[Era_shield]

What's wrong with getting assistance from Ukraine? Manufacturing capability is one thing, what Swiss watchmakers call "Savoir-Faire" (know-how) is another. Know-how is accumulated, sometimes over centuries; capability can be transferred. Ukrainians have a long history of designing and manufacturing aviation engines and they can probably teach us a few things that GE isn't so eager to share. I think it's a good idea.

Yeah, this is more likely to do with the production processes side of things which is largely accumulated experience and separate from the engineering of the engine itself. Assuming the Ukrainians have managed to retain that experience over the decades, it could save us considerable time and risk.

 

[Afif]

TEI is however able to produce 3rd generation single crystal blades which are of the same quality as those used in F119 engine when they were building the f22 planes.

How can both have the same quality? I dont think, the single crystal blades that are to be used in TS1400 or TF6000 would survive in F119's Turbine. Even if they are of same generation.
The size and thickness needs to be different, which would inevitably make changes in design Internally and externally For cooling and coating.

Also, the lifespan Seems to be different. F119 has 8650 TAC, on the other hand TS1400 has 5000 TAC. (iirc from defenceTurkey magazine)

 

[Aqerdf]

If i remember correctly, few years ago, there were cooperation talks between TR Motor and an Ukranian engine company for TF-X's APU.

Probably, this was meant by the ambassador.

 

[Yasar_TR]

How can both have the same quality? I dont think, the single crystal blades that are to be used in TS1400 or TF6000 would survive in F119's Turbine. Even if they are of same generation.
The size and thickness needs to be different, which would inevitably make changes in design Internally and externally For cooling and coating.

Also, the lifespan Seems to be different. F119 has 8650 TAC, on the other hand TS1400 has 5000 TAC. (iirc from defenceTurkey magazine)

Read the first paragraph again in it's entirety please.
There is no mention in my article about tf6000 or ts1400. Nevertheless A 3rd generation single crystal will have the same parameters and specifications wherever it is being used. F119 engine when first flying serial production f22s were using 3rd generation single crystals. So by logic and technically TEI's 3rd generation single crystals should perform well in an F119 engine, provided a good coating and clever cooling system is applied. Apart from that there were no blisk tech when those first f119s were manufactured. Application of newer tech to a tf35000 would render it superior to an engine produced in late 1990's or early 2000's.

 

[Bogeyman]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1653685833222742017

Domestic engine for ANKA-3 and KIZILELMA

TEI General Manager Prof. Dr. Mahmut Akşit: "When we add an afterburner to the TF6000 engine, it will become TF10000. In terms of size, weight and power class, it will be able to power both KIZILELMA, ANKA-3 and our domestic assault boat."

 

[Zafer]

Sounds like Mr Akşit wants to sell TF6000 to both Baykar and TAI but they have not demanded it yet. Understandable as TF6000 has several more years to be available for deployment.

 

[Enderun]

Let's get to know the company IDEALAB

The company Idealab was founded in 2015 in Istanbul Technopark.
I followed the company for a long time until they got into the turbojet business.
Especially in 2018, the company almost closed down because there was no support.
They only survived with the partial support of Yildiz Technical University at that time.
In the press release they gave at that time.

Now they are getting support, and the engine of Baykar's latest product, the Kemankes Mini Cruise Missile, is now also coming from our company IDELAB, both through Baykar and the state.
Such companies should get the best support and opportunity from the state.
I see a very serious future, I could see that even then
But I did not receive any news about the financial dimension of the company, and I did not know what it was.

Research and development capacities, focus technologies:

Turbomachinery, turbines, compressors,
power generation systems, energy storage systems,
waste heat recovery systems,
efficiency improvement projects,
Reaction and propulsion systems,
adaptation to aircraft and marine vessels, bearings,
sealing elements, gearboxes,
heat exchangers, combustion chamber design,
electric motors, generators, control systems,
CFD (computational fluid dynamics) analyses,
structural analysis, thermal analysis, durability analysis,
design and analysis of space and satellite systems, turbochargers.

Revolutionary technology for submarines from IdeaLab
sCO2 Brayton Power Cycle alternative to marine diesel engine.
(I don't know what's going on at the moment).

***********************************************
TURBOJET DESIGN AND MANUFACTURE.

It weighs 180 kg and uses the IL1600 engine,
anti-ship missile that can fly at sea level at a speed of 1.1 Mach
I wonder what the concept is?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
IDEALAB --- IL 1600 - Turbojet engine with 1600N thrust (with 10Kw internal electric generator).

Such as target drone, jet UAV, anti-ship missile.
IL1600 addresses platforms.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
IDEALAB --- IL 600 - 600N thrust turbojet engine (with 2Kw internal electric generator)

Target drone (Lightning I - II ), Mini Jet UAV,
IL600 addresses platforms such as Cruise Missile.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
IDEALAB --- IL 170 - 170N thrust turbojet engine

Mini Jet UAV, Mini Cruise Missile, Mini Target Drone Missile
IL170 turbojet engine designed for platforms such as.
(The engine in Baykar Kemankeş is this engine).

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
IDEALAB --- IL 10 microjet engine
I could not find any information about the current status.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
IDEALAB --- EDF - Electric fan with 250N thrust.

For platforms like Mini UAV, Mini Missile, Range Extender.
They develop and manufacture electric fan systems.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Anmdt]

Revolutionary technology for submarines from IdeaLab
sCO2 Brayton Power Cycle alternative to marine diesel engine.
(I don't know what's going on at the moment).

Nothing.

Thought they would vanish like Milper after riding on incentives from government and project funds from Tubitak but they seem to be saved by a invisible hand, or maneuvered to remain alive by becoming the 3rd (open to discussion on how necessary it is) Turbojet designer and manufacturer.

 

[Tornadoss]

Nothing.

Thought they would vanish like Milper after riding on incentives from government and project funds from Tubitak but they seem to be saved by a invisible hand, or maneuvered to remain alive by becoming the 3rd (open to discussion on how necessary it is) Turbojet designer and manufacturer.

SO theır AIP project was fruitless?

 

[Zafer]

Idealab were working on the innovative super-critical carbon-dioxide propulsion technology.

 

[Anmdt]

Idealab were working on the innovative super-critical carbon-dioxide propulsion technology.

And the result?
Neither deployed on STM500, nor Milden, nor mini-sub of Dearsan, nor autonomous submarine projects.

 

[Zafer]

And the result?
Neither deployed on STM500, nor Milden, nor mini-sub of Dearsan, nor autonomous submarine projects.

This is an R&D subject in the whole world, any effort in this area is invaluable and can bring a huge amount of capabilities to submarine propulsion which is the same situation with molten salt reactors; whoever makes this happen will get a big advantage. If Idealab were the only company doing such research you could be thinking they are only leaching government resources which I have no idea if they got any support for. Any bit of gain towards that goal for a very small amount of research spending is worthy of praise and not blame.

We do not know if they have already given up on this but I sincerely hope they haven't.

 

[Anmdt]

This is an R&D subject in the whole world

Not in the whole world, supercritical CO2 has been studied and applied before in scaled applications. An R&D project is meant to have some form of outcome and i see none from there.

 

[Zafer]

Not in the whole world, supercritical CO2 has been studied and applied before in scaled applications. An R&D project is meant to have some form of outcome and i see none from there.

Perhaps it is classified and not meant for you to see.

 

[Anmdt]

Perhaps it is classified and not meant for you to see.

Not really a classified project (as i noted it is not used in Milden), i know how classified projects run or how they are covered with scientific projects.

 

[Zafer]

Have we seen any leak about this?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1655879994286161920

 

[Rodeo]

Have we seen any leak about this?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1655879994286161920

That twitter account is famous for disinformation and shouldn't be taken as a source.