TR Propulsion Systems

[Bürküt]

TÜBİTAK SAGE Director Gürcan Okumuş:

- Development work on Ramjet and Scramjet Propulsion Systems within TÜBİTAK-SAGE continues at full speed. We have already brought Ramjet technology to a certain point, and we have already started to use it in existing projects. Scramjet, as you know, is a much more challenging technology. We continue to develop the technology with the laboratory-scale tests we are conducting at TÜBİTAK SAGE.

- Many studies on the development of liquid-fueled ramjet engines using our already established test infrastructures have been carried out within TÜBİTAK-SAGE. The point we have reached in a short period of time within the scope of the SYRJ project we are conducting has encouraged us to become one of the leading countries in the world in liquid-fueled engine and scramjet engine technologies in the advanced stage.

- On the one hand, we continue to work on the development of existing infrastructures, while on the other hand, we continue our efforts to establish an infrastructure where we can carry out ramjet engine tests and aerodynamic warm-up tests. In this context, the TAYFUN Aeroitki Test Infrastructure is being established and the development of the Trisonic Wind Tunnel infrastructure is ongoing. The TAYFUN Aeroitki Test Infrastructure will contribute to supersonic and, in the future, hypersonic studies.

- In addition, another technology as important as RAMJETs, the Continuous Cyclic Detonation Engine (CCDI) Technologies Development Project is also being carried out within SAGE. This is a "game changer" engine technology, and alternatives for its use not only in space systems but also in missile systems are being studied.

TÜBİTAK-SAGE | Söyleşi/2: TÜBİTAK-SAGE Enstitü Müdürü Gürcan Okumuş

TÜBİTAK-SAGE Müdürü Gürcan Okumuş ile TÜBİTAK-SAGE’nin devam eden projeleri ve gelecek vizyonu üzerine söyleşi gerçekleştirdik. Keyifli okumalar dileriz. 1.Soru |

mavivatan.net

I wish Gürcan Bey would explain why they developed a liquid fuel ramjet instead of solid fuel.Can someone who knows answer me. Can the solid-fuel ramjet engine developed by Roketsan for Akbaba be used in an air-to-air missile?

 

[Afif]

I wish Gürcan Bey would explain why they developed a liquid fuel ramjet instead of solid fuel.Can someone who knows answer me.

Previously @Yasar anticipated it likely to be some kind of gel-fuel Ramjet instead of conventional liquid propellant. (Otherwise, high g manuavere wouldn't be possible afaik)

Can the solid-fuel ramjet engine developed by Roketsan for Akbaba be used in an air-to-air.

We don't know the specs of AKBABA yet. But there could be always 'solid fuel ducted Ramjet' for A2A BVR application.

 

[Yasar_TR]

I wish Gürcan Bey would explain why they developed a liquid fuel ramjet instead of solid fuel.Can someone who knows answer me. Can the solid-fuel ramjet engine developed by Roketsan for Akbaba be used in an air-to-air missile?

Meteor has the best example of solid fuelled ramjet engine. These type of ramjets are also called “ducted” or “air-augmented”. By introducing extra air in to the combustion chamber a richer fuel/air mix is obtained to improve after burning and more controlled thrust.

A liquid based ramjet with throttle control is easier to build and design. Fuel is injected in to combustion chamber in a controlled manner, giving throttle control and thus speed control. But you would need a separate fuel tank. Also keeping and storing liquid fuels for extended periods of time are difficult and problematic at times.

A solid fuel ramjet stores its booster stage fuel in its combustion section. This fuel is exhausted during boost phase through the nozzle-less booster. After the speed for ramjet operation is reached the fuel for ramjet propulsion, which is stuck on to the inner periphery of the combustion chamber is peeled off in layers by airjets in an ablative manner. By controlling how much of this fuel is peeled off and when it is peeled off, the ramjet is given throttle control. This is a very difficult and precise rocket engineering achievement. Meteor works with this system. Akbaba, if as quoted has a solid fuel ramjet engine, must be of similar make up.

A solid fuel ramjet does not need a separate fuel tank. It also doesn’t suffer from fuel storage problems. It is just very difficult to make. The solid fuel for ramjet needs special metal particles to augment its thrust level. These are added easily to a solid fuel. However with liquid fuels, this is not possible as these particles would sink in liquid and doesn’t mix homogeneously.

Our Gökhan, although classified as a liquid fuelled ramjet powered missile, it actually uses a Gel based liquid fuel. This type of fuel can accommodate particles to be added homogeneously as they are suspended in the Gel, and has no problems with long term storage. It acts as a solid fuel but is injected in to the combustion chamber like liquid fuels. It just needs a separate fuel tank. A good example of ramjet that use gel based fuels is on the Brahmos missile.

 

[Bürküt]

Meteor has the best example of solid fuelled ramjet engine. These type of ramjets are also called “ducted” or “air-augmented”. By introducing extra air in to the combustion chamber a richer fuel/air mix is obtained to improve after burning and more controlled thrust.

A liquid based ramjet with throttle control is easier to build and design. Fuel is injected in to combustion chamber in a controlled manner, giving throttle control and thus speed control. But you would need a separate fuel tank. Also keeping and storing liquid fuels for extended periods of time are difficult and problematic at times.

A solid fuel ramjet stores its booster stage fuel in its combustion section. This fuel is exhausted during boost phase through the nozzle-less booster. After the speed for ramjet operation is reached the fuel for ramjet propulsion, which is stuck on to the inner periphery of the combustion chamber is peeled off in layers by airjets in an ablative manner. By controlling how much of this fuel is peeled off and when it is peeled off, the ramjet is given throttle control. This is a very difficult and precise rocket engineering achievement. Meteor works with this system. Akbaba, if as quoted has a solid fuel ramjet engine, must be of similar make up.

A solid fuel ramjet does not need a separate fuel tank. It also doesn’t suffer from fuel storage problems. It is just very difficult to make. The solid fuel for ramjet needs special metal particles to augment its thrust level. These are added easily to a solid fuel. However with liquid fuels, this is not possible as these particles would sink in liquid and doesn’t mix homogeneously.

Our Gökhan, although classified as a liquid fuelled ramjet powered missile, it actually uses a Gel based liquid fuel. This type of fuel can accommodate particles to be added homogeneously as they are suspended in the Gel, and has no problems with long term storage. It acts as a solid fuel but is injected in to the combustion chamber like liquid fuels. It just needs a separate fuel tank. A good example of ramjet that use gel based fuels is on the Brahmos missile.

Thank you for your long and informative answer Sayın @Yasar .My main concern for the liquid fuel ramjet was the sinking of certain particles in the fuel as you said.After all, air-to-air missiles are missiles that constantly escort aircraft in the peacetime.The problem of storing liquid fuel was not an issue that could be ignored in my eyes.In this sense, the separate fuel tank seems negligible for our own ammunition.

 

[Bogeyman]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1668551174268526592

 

[Cabatli_TR]

TUSAŞ and GE signed F110 MRO service agreement

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1671411650589609985

 

[Hepdert]

National electric engines for armoured vehicles by FEMSAN

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1681966622544723971

 

[TheInsider]

China is working on a variable cycle engine for its 6th gen fighter project.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1684086055925059586

 

[Huelague]

China is working on a variable cycle engine for its 6th gen fighter project.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1684086055925059586

Whats so special on this engine.

 

[Afif]

China is working on a variable cycle engine for its 6th gen fighter project.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1684086055925059586

Interesting.
They only recently flew their WS-15 on J20. I guess after 20 years of development, they are ready to take the next step in technological development.

Whats so special on this engine.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Whats so special on this engine.

Simply put; When a turbofan jet engine works in lower atmosphere it needs air going through it. To achieve high thrust levels you need a lot of air being pushed out of the nozzles.
With bypass turbofan engines, some of the the air being pulled in and pushed in to the high pressure compressors is also pushed out of the nozzle through ducts around the engine core without entering the combustion area. This too gives a good deal of thrust (7-10%) at lower atmosphere where air is denser. That is why airliners use larger low pressure fans to pull in more air and throw it out via the duct system. In an airliner engine almost more than 90% of thrust comes from this air being thrown out of nozzles by those big fans.
But as the plane gets higher and higher, and the air is rarified, it needs more air in the core and combustion chamber. So in reality it needs to act more like a turbojet than a turbofan.
So a variable cycle engine closes the ducts progressively to allow more of the air to go through the engine core; effectively behaving more like a turbojet than a turbofan.
This way you have almost comparably similar thrust at sea levels and at very high altitudes, giving you better fuel economy and longer range and more even speed through different layers of atmosphere.
A turbo jet performs better in supersonic flight than a turbofan, especially at higher altitudes.

 

[Trakya_forever]

KTJ 3200 in full mass production. KTJ 1750 and 3700 LRIP will start untill end of 2023.

 

[Oublious]

 

[zio]

no news for use of ktj 3200 on som and atmaca missiles,ı think there is some problems they used ktj 1750 even its not qualified

 

[boredaf]

no news for use of ktj 3200 on som and atmaca missiles,ı think there is some problems they used ktj 1750 even its not qualified

"Providing information about Turkey's first national turbojet missile engine KTJ-3200, developed for ATMACA and SOM missiles, Osman Okyay announced that the engine has entered mass production. Okyay said, "Last year, we carried out the pre-series production of KTJ-3200 engines, and we also carried out tests. As of this year, we have started mass production, and we are now making deliveries in large batches.

I don't want to talk too much about the number of engines, but we now have a regular serial production line. Engines are regularly produced there, and we have started to make regular deliveries, especially to our customer Roketsan."

Osman Okyay: 'Türk Füze Motorları Artık Ömürsüz'

Kale Grubu Başkanvekili Osman Okyay, Türk füze motorlarıyla ilgili kritik açıklamalarda bulundu. Okyay, füze motorlarının artık ömürsüz olduğuna vurgu yaptı.

www.savunmasanayist.com

He says they are delivering them to Roketsan, as you can see, and KTJ-1750 was made for Çakır.

 

[MhhJA]

BMC Power General Manager Mustafa Kaval: "We have started the serial production of the TUNA (400 HP) engine. Until today 90 - 100 engines have been produced and sent to our factory in Izmir, where they will be integrated into our Vuran vehicles. They will enter the inventory of the TSK until end of August or in September."

 

[Bmx98]

BMC Power General Manager Mustafa Kaval: "We have started the serial production of the TUNA (400 HP) engine. Until today 90 - 100 engines have been produced and sent to our factory in Izmir, where they will be integrated into our Vuran vehicles. They will enter the inventory of the TSK until end of August or in September."

Apparently they are also developing more powerful versionsof Azra and Utku.

 

[Khagan1923]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1685216334819233792

Looks like some people had the chance to see BMC Power's Transmissions

"
It would not be right to give a percentage, but a "very, very high" localization rate was achieved. They did a very good job. The rest is up to the completion of the tests.

And of course mass production."

 

[Merzifonlu]

Looks like some people had the chance to see BMC Power's Transmissions

Not engine but transmission. Am i right?

 

[Khagan1923]

Not engine but transmission. Am i right?

Yes BMC Power had the Transmission for the BATU Powerpack but only showed it to some people. Batu itself was viewable freely for everyone.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1685206366397329408

"They had their own indigenous tank transmission system in the back, which they showed to a few people."