TR Propulsion Systems

[TheInsider]

New turbojet engines of Kale can be ready as early as 2023. Kale set up a national turbojet design, production, testing infrastructure. Kale designed, produced, tested, and successfully qualified a turbojet engine, and turbojet engine subsystems and components. This is all done nationally from the scratch.

Current Capability of Turkish Companies
TEI= Designing, production, testing (big and small jet engines)
Kale=Designing, production, testing (small jet engines)
TRMotor= Designing (big jet engines)
Idealab=Designing (small jet engines)
Tubitak= Designing, production, testing (Ramjet Engines)
Roketsan= Designing, production, testing (Ramjet Engines)

 

[Combat-Master]

TEI with support from Tubitak is working to get a maximum thrust of 1600N/359lbf from the TEI-TJ300 Medium Range Anti-Ship Missile Engine.

Suppose they should rename it to TEI-TJ350.

 

[Saithan]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1454379132209467396

Batu expected production 2024

 

[Combat-Master]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1451433487685271553

This is what we mean when we say defense industry.
Not all R&D is done by scientists in a laboratory environment, the friend who does the fluid mechanics modeling of that engine is drinking tea on the side. The precision machining company can make jet engines for small missiles. Don't ask about job security.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1451435517791309826

The engine could explode. They did a very careless job.

When it comes to the culture that comes from its production, it actually does not bother me at all, it is the main idea to taste that happiness as soon as possible.
If it explodes in the hive around it, nothing will happen.
But share the excitement of the company that makes such a production. Thanks to the approaches of such companies, the costs are reduced.

Devrezli mini jet engine development for Hobby Sector;

"We produced our 100 and 200 newton engines for the hobby sector. We are the first manufacturer of micro-based jet engines in Turkey at the prototype stage. These engines are purchased from abroad. There are problems in maintenance and supply. Considering the needs in this field, we produced 2 engines. We produced our engines for civil aviation needs. "We want to continue our work by enlarging it. These engines are small in diameter, and we plan to increase our engines up to 1500 newtons. We have designs, we can supply engines for the defense industry in line with demand."

Mustafa Yasin Pehlivanoğlu, "Our development work continues. We plan to start mass production of our 100 and 200 newton engines in the second half of 2022." he said.

High locality and affordable cost
Emphasizing that they have completed the ground tests to a large extent, Pehlivanoğlu stated that they aim to start flight tests with prototype engines towards the end of the year.

Pehlivanoğlu pointed out that the locality rate of engines is at the level of 80-85 percent, and stated that they aim to increase this rate to 90-95 percent until mass production, and that they are working on materials.

Mustafa Yasin Pehlivanoğlu stated that the cost of the engines would be 30-40 percent more affordable than the equivalent products supplied from abroad.

Expressing that they are confident in realizing their engine projects, Pehlivanoğlu said, "We started the sector with mold making. We spent our childhood in the industry. We believe that we can make these engines. We have shown this with prototypes. We use our own resources and various supports for the transition to mass production. We believe that we can also make more powerful engines."

Motor sesiyle büyüyüp kendi jet motorlarını yaptılar

TUSAŞ'ta F-16, CASA uçağı projelerinde çalışan babalarının temellerini attığı firmayı savunma sanayisindeki ihtiyaçları karşılayabilir noktaya getiren 3 kardeş, 100 ve 200 nevtonluk jet motorları geliştirdi. - Anadolu Ajansı

t.co

I believe they would capture a great portion of the hobby sector, affordable mini jet engines would sell like baklava!

 

[Zafer]

Devrezli mini jet engine development for Hobby Sector;

"We produced our 100 and 200 newton engines for the hobby sector. We are the first manufacturer of micro-based jet engines in Turkey at the prototype stage. These engines are purchased from abroad. There are problems in maintenance and supply. Considering the needs in this field, we produced 2 engines. We produced our engines for civil aviation needs. "We want to continue our work by enlarging it. These engines are small in diameter, and we plan to increase our engines up to 1500 newtons. We have designs, we can supply engines for the defense industry in line with demand."

Mustafa Yasin Pehlivanoğlu, "Our development work continues. We plan to start mass production of our 100 and 200 newton engines in the second half of 2022." he said.

High locality and affordable cost
Emphasizing that they have completed the ground tests to a large extent, Pehlivanoğlu stated that they aim to start flight tests with prototype engines towards the end of the year.

Pehlivanoğlu pointed out that the locality rate of engines is at the level of 80-85 percent, and stated that they aim to increase this rate to 90-95 percent until mass production, and that they are working on materials.

Mustafa Yasin Pehlivanoğlu stated that the cost of the engines would be 30-40 percent more affordable than the equivalent products supplied from abroad.

Expressing that they are confident in realizing their engine projects, Pehlivanoğlu said, "We started the sector with mold making. We spent our childhood in the industry. We believe that we can make these engines. We have shown this with prototypes. We use our own resources and various supports for the transition to mass production. We believe that we can also make more powerful engines."

View attachment 34763
View attachment 34764
View attachment 34765

Motor sesiyle büyüyüp kendi jet motorlarını yaptılar

TUSAŞ'ta F-16, CASA uçağı projelerinde çalışan babalarının temellerini attığı firmayı savunma sanayisindeki ihtiyaçları karşılayabilir noktaya getiren 3 kardeş, 100 ve 200 nevtonluk jet motorları geliştirdi. - Anadolu Ajansı

t.co

I believe they would capture a great portion of the hobby sector, affordable mini jet engines would sell like baklava!
View attachment 34767

Taiwaneese Jetbeetle should be included in the makers, very similar to what Devrezli is doing.

 

[Rodeo]

Devrezli mini jet engine development for Hobby Sector;

"We produced our 100 and 200 newton engines for the hobby sector. We are the first manufacturer of micro-based jet engines in Turkey at the prototype stage. These engines are purchased from abroad. There are problems in maintenance and supply. Considering the needs in this field, we produced 2 engines. We produced our engines for civil aviation needs. "We want to continue our work by enlarging it. These engines are small in diameter, and we plan to increase our engines up to 1500 newtons. We have designs, we can supply engines for the defense industry in line with demand."

Mustafa Yasin Pehlivanoğlu, "Our development work continues. We plan to start mass production of our 100 and 200 newton engines in the second half of 2022." he said.

High locality and affordable cost
Emphasizing that they have completed the ground tests to a large extent, Pehlivanoğlu stated that they aim to start flight tests with prototype engines towards the end of the year.

Pehlivanoğlu pointed out that the locality rate of engines is at the level of 80-85 percent, and stated that they aim to increase this rate to 90-95 percent until mass production, and that they are working on materials.

Mustafa Yasin Pehlivanoğlu stated that the cost of the engines would be 30-40 percent more affordable than the equivalent products supplied from abroad.

Expressing that they are confident in realizing their engine projects, Pehlivanoğlu said, "We started the sector with mold making. We spent our childhood in the industry. We believe that we can make these engines. We have shown this with prototypes. We use our own resources and various supports for the transition to mass production. We believe that we can also make more powerful engines."

View attachment 34763
View attachment 34764
View attachment 34765

Motor sesiyle büyüyüp kendi jet motorlarını yaptılar

TUSAŞ'ta F-16, CASA uçağı projelerinde çalışan babalarının temellerini attığı firmayı savunma sanayisindeki ihtiyaçları karşılayabilir noktaya getiren 3 kardeş, 100 ve 200 nevtonluk jet motorları geliştirdi. - Anadolu Ajansı

t.co

I believe they would capture a great portion of the hobby sector, affordable mini jet engines would sell like baklava!
View attachment 34767

Whats's the volume of this market in dollars?

 

[Saithan]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1454435105313902604

Domestic servo used in defence products

 

[Zafer]

Whats's the volume of this market in dollars?

Hobby size turbines have the potential to expand into portable power generation and jetpack aviation which means an exponential potential growth. Otherwise it is probably under a thousand pieces per year worldwide for the hobby RC market. Largely because EDF electric powered fans took over as clean power.

 

[Combat-Master]

Claiming here that their engines will be 30-40% cheaper than rival companies.

If we take German JetCat P100-RX as competiton, their engine costs around €2,300.

 

[Rodeo]

Do we have any update on TS3000? And between TF6000 and TS3000 which one do you think we'll see first?
@TheInsider

 

[Bogeyman]

He compared the CODAG propulsion system used in the master İ class frigates in "Üsküdar biz" with the Zorya M27/COGAG propulsion system of Ukraine.

Hâlâ Zor mu?

Gemi tahrik sistemleri, donanma teknolojileri açısından son derece hassas bileşenlerdir.

alarga.uskudar.biz

I found a first hand source for those who are interested in the subject. I am quoting 1 for Zorya M27/COGAG from the book written by 1 group of academicians from Ukraine's Admiral Makarov National University for ship propulsion systems.

Marine Power Plant

This book describes the history and development of marine power plant. Problems of arrangement, general construction and parameters of marine power plants of all types are considered. It also introduces different characteristics of each type of marine power plant, matching characteristic for...

books.google.com.tr

By the way, here is the index of the book they wrote.

Marine Power Plant

This book describes the history of marine power plant and development and gives a clear idea about different marine power engines

link.springer.com

If you want to buy the book, you will pay 113 euros.

Amazon.co.uk : 9789813349353

www.amazon.co.uk

Profile of a few academics from the authors of the book

Web of Science

publons.com

Zongming Yang's research works | Jiangsu University of Science and Technology, Zhenjiang and other places

Zongming Yang's 13 research works with 3 citations and 392 reads, including: Modern State of Using Alternative Fuels in Marine Engineering

www.researchgate.net

Web of Science

publons.com

@Combat-Master @Zafer @Saithan @nakaFH @Yasar @Kartal1 @Cabatli_53 @Nilgiri @yakusha @TheInsider @Fuzuli NL @Test7 @mulj @T-123456 @Stimpy75 @Stuka

Dont miss it guys

 

[Yasar_TR]

@Bogeyman , interesting write up on Zorya gas turbines.
One specific area that needs to be mentioned is the quiet running of the engines and transmissions and the quality of sound proofing of both.
If I am not mistaken, GE excels in this area. Hence the success of LM2500! @Anmdt can shed more light on the issue as he had once mentioned the superiority of quiet running GE gas turbines.
For a modern war ship it is vital to be stealthy and QUIET!

Competing Manufacturers of MARINE GAS TURBINES A Special Descriptive Market Analysis. October PDF Free Download

Competing Manufacturers of MARINE GAS TURBINES A Special Descriptive Market Analysis October 2015 By Stuart L. Slade; Senior Analyst/Editor of Naval Systems Preface This market assessment of the marine

docplayer.net

 

[Anmdt]

@Bogeyman , interesting write up on Zorya gas turbines.
One specific area that needs to be mentioned is the quiet running of the engines and transmissions and the quality of sound proofing of both.
If I am not mistaken, GE excels in this area. Hence the success of LM2500! @Anmdt can shed more light on the issue as he had once mentioned the superiority of quiet running GE gas turbines.
For a modern war ship it is vital to be stealthy and QUIET!

Competing Manufacturers of MARINE GAS TURBINES A Special Descriptive Market Analysis. October PDF Free Download

Competing Manufacturers of MARINE GAS TURBINES A Special Descriptive Market Analysis October 2015 By Stuart L. Slade; Senior Analyst/Editor of Naval Systems Preface This market assessment of the marine

docplayer.net

It would be good if Ukranians are willing to cooperate with Asfat, STM, Aselsan to get Zorya in a better condition (integration to the naval platforms) and introducing them with customized solutions for customers or in future for Turkish Navy for platforms that may need multiple gas turbines (in 2 + 2 configuration).
They could start with their 2nd batch orders.

 

[Bogeyman]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1455818737668526085

Industry and Technology Minister Mustafa Varank: "We have reached the final stage in the liquid fuel RAMJET Project. In 2022, we will reveal a RAMJET engine prototype operating at supersonic speeds."

 

[Cabatli_TR]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1455818737668526085

Industry and Technology Minister Mustafa Varank: "We have reached the final stage in the liquid fuel RAMJET Project. In 2022, we will reveal a RAMJET engine prototype operating at supersonic speeds."

Ramjet Gökhan BVR and Ramjet anti-ship missiles are coming. These supersonic missiles together with Aselsan aircraft AESA and Cenk-S radars will be real game changers. I expect to see two different versions of the ramjet anti-ship missiles. One is air-launched and the other is ship-based.

 

[TheInsider]

@Bogeyman , interesting write up on Zorya gas turbines.
One specific area that needs to be mentioned is the quiet running of the engines and transmissions and the quality of sound proofing of both.
If I am not mistaken, GE excels in this area. Hence the success of LM2500! @Anmdt can shed more light on the issue as he had once mentioned the superiority of quiet running GE gas turbines.
For a modern war ship it is vital to be stealthy and QUIET!

Competing Manufacturers of MARINE GAS TURBINES A Special Descriptive Market Analysis. October PDF Free Download

Competing Manufacturers of MARINE GAS TURBINES A Special Descriptive Market Analysis October 2015 By Stuart L. Slade; Senior Analyst/Editor of Naval Systems Preface This market assessment of the marine

docplayer.net

We have no concrete evidence that GE excels in this area and how much GE excels. What are the dB levels of both engines? On top of that having marginal advantages is not important when your logistics chain is compromised. There is no guarantee that Congress won't stop engine sales or the support of existing engines. IMHO Ukrain Milgem deal is a great chance for us to integrate Zorya engines to Milgem as an option. Zorya is a solid option and slight advantages for GE mean nothing (if there are any) compared to the safety of the logistics chain.

 

[TheInsider]

Do we have any update on TS3000? And between TF6000 and TS3000 which one do you think we'll see first?
@TheInsider

I'm very suspicious that TS3000 and TF6000 are the same thing.

 

[Rodeo]

I'm very suspicious that TS3000 and TF6000 are the same thing.

how could that be? One is turboshaft, the other is turbofan

 

[Anmdt]

We have no concrete evidence that GE excels in this area and how much GE excels. What are the dB levels of both engines? On top of that having marginal advantages is not important when your logistics chain is compromised. There is no guarantee that Congress won't stop engine sales or the support of existing engines. IMHO Ukrain Milgem deal is a great chance for us to integrate Zorya engines to Milgem as an option. Zorya is a solid option and slight advantages for GE mean nothing (if there are any) compared to the safety of the logistics chain.

Zorya vs GE in a nutshell:

Both companies are contacted by a respactable Turkish company for possible use of their engines on a platform to be introduced that has already caught attention of some countries, possible orders exceeding 20. (Totaling 60+ engines including spares)

GE:
Returned in a few days, assigned a senior engineer and one representative without even an MoU and shared all necessary details in a cooperative manner, going through meetings weekly.
Signed MoU with TEI later.

Zorya:
Ignoring their earlier failures to negotiate some deals, this is how they handled the request.

No response in a week (nothing at all)
High level online meeting to discuss and deliver the required information sets.
A month passes, no response at all. Contacted and the reply was "working on that"
2 months have passed still no replies. Meanwhile integration of GE is done and moving on with detailing procedures.

Not even going deep into technical matters, moreover the fact they havent made a solid plan for ToT and local production in Turkey. Discussed a year ago and they havent advanced an inch and dragging a leg for meetings.

Meanwhile all DzKK, SSB and design companies are assured by GE's performance and Zorya being reluctant on inviting Turkish representative in a live demonstration to prove their claims.

I am not detailing this further, informations are from first hand and pretty much known in the circle of marine industry and naval forces.

 

[Saithan]

Zorya vs GE in a nutshell:

Both companies are contacted by a respactable Turkish company for possible use of their engines on a platform to be introduced that has already caught attention of some countries, possible orders exceeding 20. (Totaling 60+ engines including spares)

GE:
Returned in a few days, assigned a senior engineer and one representative without even an MoU and shared all necessary details in a cooperative manner, going through meetings weekly.
Signed MoU with TEI later.

Zorya:
Ignoring their earlier failures to negotiate some deals, this is how they handled the request.

No response in a week (nothing at all)
High level online meeting to discuss and deliver the required information sets.
A month passes, no response at all. Contacted and the reply was "working on that"
2 months have passed still no replies. Meanwhile integration of GE is done and moving on with detailing procedures.

Not even going deep into technical matters, moreover the fact they havent made a solid plan for ToT and local production in Turkey. Discussed a year ago and they havent advanced an inch and dragging a leg for meetings.

Meanwhile all DzKK, SSB and design companies are assured by GE's performance and Zorya being reluctant on inviting Turkish representative in a live demonstration to prove their claims.

I am not detailing this further, informations are from first hand and pretty much known in the circle of marine industry and naval forces.

No deal with Zorya unless they cough up IP of engine. I’m not so good that I’ll allow cooperation with such behavior or approach.