Sinking of Indian Navy Frigate INS Khukri by Pakistan

[Kaptaan]

Pakistan Navy submarine PNS Hangor sunk Indian warship INS Khukri off the coast of Diu, Gujarat on December 9, 1971, the first such sinking of a warship since WW2 by a submarine. 194 Indian Navy sailors died in the sinking that has been described in detail by the Indian Defense Review in 2014.

INS Kirpan, another Indian warship which was close by when the attack took place fled the scene rather than attempt to rescue the sailors on board Khukri. Had Kirpan mounted rescue, at least some of the lives of the194 people (18 officers and 176 sailors) who perished in the sinking of INS Khukri could have been saved.

A book by retired Major General Ian Cardozo of the Indian Army on the sinking of Khukri has recorded the dismay of some of survivors at the cowardice INS Kirpan's captain and staff.

“We were hoping that Kirpan, our sister ship would come to rescue us but we saw her sailing away from the area”, Commander Manu Sharma, a survivor of Khukri, has been quoted by Cardozo.

 

[Null/Void]

congrats on sinking a ship at the cost of losing half of country

Why do Indians still harp on this so much big deal it's not like BD was a part of Pakistan culturally or socially

 

[Kaptaan]

Why do Indians still harp on this so much big deal it's not like BD was a part of Pakistan culturally or socially

The reason is simple. This is first instance in 1,000 years of being bruised by Muslims that Indian's got to taste victory - even when the victory belonged to the Banglas. But like a guy who scored his first *strawberry* he ain't gonna forget about that. He is gonna masticate and chew on this 'score' of the millenia.

I mean this was a victory achieved by joining the Bangla insurgents, Bangla population of 60 million and then pouring so many men that according to Indian chief of staff himself India had 15:1, yes 15 to one advantage.

If the Americans followed the Indian example 200 years plus they still would be touting to Britain - you lost more than 3/4 of your empire.

 

[Nilgiri]

Why do Indians still harp on this so much big deal it's not like BD was a part of Pakistan culturally or socially

If so, why not do simple czech - slovak velvet divorce?

Heck those 2 speak literally the same language, are culturally the same but figured they wanted to go about different political setup....literally no distance between them either...up and close compacted together for 100 years or so politically too.

Lets say, BD was not any of those things with Pakistan (skipping past more uncomfy history like Muslim League starting in Dhaka in 1906...in case you don't know the relevance of the muslim league to Pakistan's formation).

OK but if BD wasn't....then why operation searchlight, mass atrocities, genocide-even, causing 10 million refugees or more to escape to India (and put a mass burden on them prompting interest and involvement)....just form a peaceful solution with the Bongs and be on your merry way.

They totally aren't "culturally" and "socially" the same at all, so should have been super simple for super smart and super low ego and super low supremacist thinking Pakistani establishment that had the super high SEATO-funded industries that dont need super high jute for forex and budgets at all.

Mard-e-momin 10:1 kind of thinking (that would be self asserted cake walk by 3 times w.r.t 3:1 force level India achieved) totally didnt exist....and jute...whats that? There's absolute no funny business pilfering going on at all.

Instead we have younger musharraf crying like a you know what (reflective of the whole setup reaction when 10:1 narrative came crashing down in 2 weeks time) over a bunch of nothing burger "culturally and socially" totally not the same folks?..... that totally were not providing the majority by far of pakistans export earnings and goose-step-cabal-slush funds?

Yeah ok.

 

[Saiyan0321]

Naval thread for naval section.

 

[Jackdaws]

congrats on sinking a ship at the cost of losing half of country

India also lost 50 aircraft. You can expect a separate thread on each of them.
Pakistan has never achieved a single strategic objective in any of the wars against India - so they celebrate minor tactical victories.

 

[Jackdaws]

The reason is simple. This is first instance in 1,000 years of being bruised by Muslims that Indian's got to taste victory - even when the victory belonged to the Banglas. But like a guy who scored his first *strawberry* he ain't gonna forget about that. He is gonna masticate and chew on this 'score' of the millenia.

I mean this was a victory achieved by joining the Bangla insurgents, Bangla population of 60 million and then pouring so many men that according to Indian chief of staff himself India had 15:1, yes 15 to one advantage.

If the Americans followed the Indian example 200 years plus they still would be touting to Britain - you lost more than 3/4 of your empire.

Is that logic from a Pakistani text book?

 

[Paro]

PNS ghazi is laughing.

Losing 2 destroyers, 1 submarine, 1 minesweeper, 3 patrol vessls, 7 gunboats and n number of other ships for a single frigate is good count.

 

[Saiyan0321]

Pakistan Navy submarine PNS Hangor sunk Indian warship INS Khukri off the coast of Diu, Gujarat on December 9, 1971, the first such sinking of a warship since WW2 by a submarine. 194 Indian Navy sailors died in the sinking that has been described in detail by the Indian Defense Review in 2014.

INS Kirpan, another Indian warship which was close by when the attack took place fled the scene rather than attempt to rescue the sailors on board Khukri. Had Kirpan mounted rescue, at least some of the lives of the194 people (18 officers and 176 sailors) who perished in the sinking of INS Khukri could have been saved.

A book by retired Major General Ian Cardozo of the Indian Army on the sinking of Khukri has recorded the dismay of some of survivors at the cowardice INS Kirpan's captain and staff.

“We were hoping that Kirpan, our sister ship would come to rescue us but we saw her sailing away from the area”, Commander Manu Sharma, a survivor of Khukri, has been quoted by Cardozo.

View attachment 9749

There was an article as well on PNS hangor. The ship entered service in 1970 and was de-commissioned in 2006

Historical saga of heroics: PNS/M Hangor in 1971 war​

9th December 1971 would haunt the Indian Navy forever; and would remain in the annals of Naval Warfare history. On this day in 1971 the Pak Navy Submarine (PNSM) HANGOR struck terror in the hearts and minds of the Indians. Sinking Indian Navy’s anti-submarine frigate INS KHUKRI with its crew and crippling INS KIRPAN during the historic military saga of 1971.
PNSM HANGOR nicknamed “The Shark” a Daphne class French submarine that bravely undertook a range of brave operations in vast oceans for Pakistan Navy from 1970 to 2006. A diesel-electric submarine did what a modern-day submarine would dream of -targeting enemy ships and laying them to the bottom of sea. The submarine earned renown for its valour & acclaiming a kill after WW-II in the 1971 Indo Pak War, when it sank the Indian Navy’s anti-submarine frigate INS KHUKRI with two torpedoes.
The spectacular war action took place 30 miles South East off ‘Diu Head’. KHUKRI sank merely in two minutes with its crew of 18 officers and 176 sailors onboard. This PN action remains the most costly wartime casualty of Indian Navy. After this valour action by Pakistan Navy, entire Indian Western Fleet was tasked for a vigorous hunt of the valiant submarine for the next 96 hours. Indian Navy consumed around 156 underwater charges indiscriminately dropped along all possible escape routes of HANGOR; of those few were close calls but HANGOR escaped due to the operational skills of the submarine crew. The submarine remained submerged for a week and skillfully evaded its pursuers and proudly returned to Karachi unharmed; triumphantly with national glory and Naval pride entered harbor on 18 December 1971.
Indian Navy Vice Admiral (r) G M Hiranandani while commenting on the HANGOR attack in an issue of the Indian Defence Review much lauded the efficiency of the attack. The Frontier Post epitomized the action in these words “Both the attack on an anti-submarine frigate in shallow waters and its subsequent escape unharmed speaks volumes for the professional skill, courage and patience of the crew of the submarine”
HANGOR action was not mere firing of torpedoes and sinking a ship. Strategic significance of HANGOR action was manifold. It not only demonstrated Pakistan Navy’s operational superiority in subsurface warfare but its strategic gains for the nation were even more pivotal. The sinking of KHUKRI forced Indian government and Indian Navy to cancel its ‘Operation TRIUMPH’, the planned third missile attack on Karachi port installation, Naval and marine fleet which was planned on 10 December. It was KHUKRI sinking that thereafter no further missile or other attacks could be carried out by the India on Pakistan’s maritime assets at Karachi Harbor. Karachi Port being the backbone of national economy, trade hub and being a strategic vital area of the country was kept safe by HANGOR easing out our defense efforts averting material losses and keeping the port intact.
In recognition of the courageous and bold action, the valiant crew of HANGOR was decorated with 04 x Sitara-e-Jurat, 06 x Tamgha-e-Jurat and 14 x lmtiazi -Asnad. It is also a matter of pride that many of her crew members over the course of time later ascended to senior ranks in Pakistan Navy. Her wartime Commanding Officer, then Commander Ahmad Tasnim was awarded Sitara-e-Jurat and Bar, he later retired as a vice admiral. The executive officer of S/M Lt. Commander A. U. Khan was awarded Sitara-e-Jurat and rose to Vice Admiral, her Electrical Officer Lt. Cdr R. A Qadri received Sitara-e-Jurat and retired as a Rear Admiral, Lieutenant Fasih Bokhari, the Navigating Officer of HANGOR rose to become a four star Admiral and was Chief of the Naval Staff during 1997-1999.
Submarine HANGOR served PN for 35 years (1970 to 2006), and is today proudly on display as a relic-artefact at the Pakistan Maritime Museum; to remind all and sundry of her ‘Glorious Past'

Historical saga of heroics: PNS/M Hangor in 1971 war

9th December 1971 would haunt the Indian Navy forever; and would remain in the annals of Naval Warfare history. On this day in 1971 the Pak Navy Submarine HANGOR struck terror in the hearts and...

www.thenews.com.pk

 

[Saiyan0321]

Infact there is alot of closeness felt in the naval section with the ship.

KARACHI: Pakistan Navy celebrated the 49th Hangor Day on Wednesday.

The day is celebrated to commemorate the historic event in which Pakistan Navy submarine Hangor sank Indian Navy frigate Khukri and crippled INS Kirpan in a spectacular war action during 1971. Hangor Day, a reminder of the unmatched courage and unwavering commitment of Pakistan Navy’s submarine Hangor, is celebrated by Pakistan Navy on every Dec 9.

Like each year, this year also witnessed an impressive ceremony at the PN Dockyard, Karachi. Pakistan Fleet Commander Rear Admiral Naveed Ashraf graced the ceremony as chief guest.

PNS Hangor remained a pride for Pakistan Navy in 1971 war and its gallant action was not only a spectacular tactical battle resulting in the sinking of Indian Navy’s frigate but it was a strategic overture of Pakistan Navy which effectively thwarted and marginalised Indian aggression imposed on Pakistan during the 1971 war.

The heroic action took place at southeast of Diu Head on the west coast of India. The event is distinguished in naval history for being the first and only successful kill by a conventional submarine after World War II. Owing to the outstanding leadership of its commanding officer, then commander Ahmed Tasnim, and his professional crew, the enemy remained unable to detect the submarine as it successfully returned to Karachi on completion of the mission.

On Hangor Day this year a message from retired vice admiral Ahmed Tasnim was also played. The admiral paid rich tributes to the valiant crew for their service in defence of the motherland in general and Pakistan Navy in particular. He said PNS Hangor was a luminous part of Pakistan Navy’s history and would always be remembered as such. Hangor was the first of Daphne-class submarines acquired from France.

Published in Dawn, December 10th, 2020

Pakistan Navy celebrates 49th Hangor Day

KARACHI: Pakistan Navy celebrated the 49th Hangor Day on Wednesday.

www.dawn.com

 

[Saiyan0321]

Why do Indians still harp on this so much big deal it's not like BD was a part of Pakistan culturally or socially

1971 is the past for Pakistan and even the scars, no of the war but of the political divide, are also slowly healing and dont get me wrong. The impact of 1971 is still there however as the new generation comes to the wheel. the events of East Pakistan are slowly getting healed in the minds of Pakistanis. Give it a generation and people will no longer carry the scars of this very difficult separation and i am not talking militarily. Military aspects happen and have always happened. I am talking politically how the events of 1971 are used in our political discourse often to keep the center in line or often to discourage reforms by the center. Nevertheless time is a wonderful thing and even now the youth of Pakistan are now entirely focused on the welfare of modern Pakistan

 

[crixus]

India also lost 50 aircraft. You can expect a separate thread on each of them.
Pakistan has never achieved a single strategic objective in any of the wars against India - so they celebrate minor tactical victories.

They are blaming everything on the earth for the defeat but the people who lost half of the country without even dare to question them :

Moral aspect about Hamoodur Rehman Comission :

http://img.dunyanews.tv/images/docss/hamoodur_rahman_commission_report.pdf

 

[Saiyan0321]

Thread cleaned.

No trolling

No senseless oneliners

No calling each other terrorists or It workers.

 

[Saiyan0321]

They are blaming everything on the earth for the defeat but the people whole lost half of the country without even dare to question them :

Moral aspect about Hamoodur Rehman Comission :

View attachment 9790

http://img.dunyanews.tv/images/docss/hamoodur_rahman_commission_report.pdf

This is what happens when you dont visit Pakistan and talk to the people of Pakistan. If you think that we dont blame the west Pakistani leadership of that time or the army then you have not followed Pakistani politics or its sociological growth post 1971.

I will give you a hint, to this day, although it is decreasing, but to this day any political party can say "this is exactly like 1971" and the center ceases every step, the military is found looking down and the people are seen blaming the state for making those conditions again. during the missing person cases, the word 1971 is said in more fluency than you can imagine. In bar speeches, when 18th amendment is mentioned, the word 1971 is mentioned more than you can imagine, forget bar, even in parliamentary meetings. To this day no action is taken against the most exploitative provincial government called PPP simply because they use the 1971 card. When talking about making Karachi a province 1971 comes up.

Most recently 1971 came up when PDM spoke of tendering resignations and government said that they would hold by-election and it was again said thats exactly what yahya did in 1971.

So i have no idea where you guys get your information from. Seriously visit Pakistan and talk to people.

 

[crixus]

This is what happens when you dont visit Pakistan and talk to the people of Pakistan. If you think that we dont blame the west Pakistani leadership of that time or the army then you have not followed Pakistani politics or its sociological growth post 1971.

I will give you a hint, to this day, although it is decreasing, but to this day any political party can say "this is exactly like 1971" and the center ceases every step, the military is found looking down and the people are seen blaming the state for making those conditions again. during the missing person cases, the word 1971 is said in more fluency than you can imagine. In bar speeches, when 18th amendment is mentioned, the word 1971 is mentioned more than you can imagine, forget bar, even in parliamentary meetings. To this day no action is taken against the most exploitative provincial government called PPP simply because they use the 1971 card. When talking about making Karachi a province 1971 comes up.

Most recently 1971 came up when PDM spoke of tendering resignations and government said that they would hold by-election and it was again said thats exactly what yahya did in 1971.

So i have no idea where you guys get your information from. Seriously visit Pakistan and talk to people.

Believe me normal and sane Pakistanis are like family members, I have met Pakistanis from all provinces except Gilgit Baltistan.
back to the point tell this to the people who open a thread for a single tank and ship lost in the war . The day you have a political party with balls to face the real rulers of Pakistan, I can bet all pending issues with India including Kashmir will be resolved.
just FYI Modi gave more than 10000 acres to Bangladesh to settle the pending boundary disputes because Bangladesh has a leader who can take decisions.

I have one question why these Non-Resident Pakistanis flashing the western flags are trying to prove themselves more Pakistani than normal Pakistanis on these online forums.

 

[Saiyan0321]

Believe me normal and sane Pakistanis are like family members, I have met Pakistanis from all provinces except Gilgit Baltistan.

Great. Gb is filled with great people. You would find many in universities. Punjab University was a good mesh where i met many people.

back to the point tell this to the people who open a thread for a single tank and ship lost in the war . The day you have a political party with balls to face the real rulers of Pakistan, I can bet all pending issues with India including Kashmir will be resolved.

Cmon. Its a military naval thread on naval engagement. When studying wars, deep down engagements are prone to study so its fine. You guy can do that for your naval engagements as well. I would that considering the size and structure of naval engagements in the indian subcontinent between Pakistan vs India, we can only look at single engagement. Like the Dwarka attack in 1965. Its not some grand naval engagement but for military study, it could be looked at.

lets relax a bit.

just FYI Modi gave more than 10000 acres to Bangladesh to settle the pending boundary disputes because Bangladesh has a leader who can take decisions.

good for those two nations however that cant be compared to Kashmir. Kashmir will require something grand and no politician will ever be able to solve it without repercussions simply due to the emotional investment into the region by the populace.

I have one question why these Non-Resident Pakistanis flashing the western flags are trying to prove themselves more Pakistani than normal Pakistanis on these online forums.

Dont ask me, i have never been away from Pakistan. Both Kaptaan and Yankeestani are great guys. Pakistanis and Indians have had such a negative online experience with each other that the glass is filled and any post can break the glass and eventually this is helping in forming online interaction where the conversation begins in a very hostile manner.

 

[Paro]

good for those two nations however that cant be compared to Kashmir. Kashmir will require something grand and no politician will ever be able to solve it without repercussions simply due to the emotional investment into the region by the populace.

Kashmir is no different that any dispute between any two countries. Pakistan Army has made it complicated with its continues support to its fringe elements. Remove them from the equation it’s just a land dispute.
Pakistan military has made emotional investments into its avaam using Kashmir not the other way around to stay in power. And now it reached a point where they can’t go forward with it or try reversing it. You don’t see that same emotional attachment on the Indian side. So please don’t get Kashmir is diffierent into the discussion.

And FYI modi did try in his first term to bury the hatchet first with Pakistan which was followed by patankot and URI, so much so that he gave access to patankot airbase too. Secondly with China followed my doklam.

Only after 2018 the south block made up its mind to make things costly for Pakistan which was immediately followed by Imran khan Asking for peace. But by that time it was too late because the course was already decided. One pattern you’ll need to notice about Indian sarkar is they are too late to make a decision but once the dice is rolled they don’t go back on its policies, the effects of that dice are coming into play just past few months and we are bound to see far more nervous Pakistan in the coming years.

 

[Jackdaws]

Great. Gb is filled with great people. You would find many in universities. Punjab University was a good mesh where i met many people.

Cmon. Its a military naval thread on naval engagement. When studying wars, deep down engagements are prone to study so its fine. You guy can do that for your naval engagements as well. I would that considering the size and structure of naval engagements in the indian subcontinent between Pakistan vs India, we can only look at single engagement. Like the Dwarka attack in 1965. Its not some grand naval engagement but for military study, it could be looked at.

lets relax a bit.


good for those two nations however that cant be compared to Kashmir. Kashmir will require something grand and no politician will ever be able to solve it without repercussions simply due to the emotional investment into the region by the populace.


Dont ask me, i have never been away from Pakistan. Both Kaptaan and Yankeestani are great guys. Pakistanis and Indians have had such a negative online experience with each other that the glass is filled and any post can break the glass and eventually this is helping in forming online interaction where the conversation begins in a very hostile manner.

Kashmir is no different that any dispute between any two countries. Pakistan Army has made it complicated with its continues support to its fringe elements. Remove them from the equation it’s just a land dispute.
Pakistan military has made emotional investments into its avaam using Kashmir not the other way around to stay in power. And now it reached a point where they can’t go forward with it or try reversing it. You don’t see that same emotional attachment on the Indian side. So please don’t get Kashmir is diffierent into the discussion.

And FYI modi did try in his first term to bury the hatchet first with Pakistan which was followed by patankot and URI, so much so that he gave access to patankot airbase too. Secondly with China followed my doklam.

Only after 2018 the south block made up its mind to make things costly for Pakistan which was immediately followed by Imran khan Asking for peace. But by that time it was too late because the course was already decided. One pattern you’ll need to notice about Indian sarkar is they are too late to make a decision but once the dice is rolled they don’t go back on its policies, the effects of that dice are coming into play just past few months and we are bound to see far more nervous Pakistan in the coming years.

India did offer land to Pakistan in Kashmir BEFORE the 1965 War - prodded on by Kennedy after the 1962 fiasco

 

[Kaptaan]

Indian's have such a propagandized view of Pakistan that often there is little space for discussion. From the military POV 1971 was a foregone conclusion even before the first bullet was fired. No army, numbering only 55k regular soldiers, 1,200 miles away from home base with enemy country inbetween, surrounded on all three sides with the sea on the other side, hold down 60 million angry Banglas and still be able to hold out a attack by Indian Army. So from military POV this was insignificant battle.



The other rubbish I keep hearing is PA has not won a war. Even if that is true and we go with this proposition the much vaunted German Army never won a single war in the 20th century. It got brutally defeated twice and last time even ceased to exist. But nobody has ever made fun of it or derided it as a fighting force. Indeed quite the contrary the German Army is highly respect for it's fighting record even if was defeated because any historian will know that the Germany Army always faced overwheming odds.

And that quote from the report about wine, women etc is infantile. All armies in WW2 on both sides indulged in wine, women and even shooting prisoners etc. Thus is nature of war. Only Pakistani's with their stupid infatuation with pious behaviour judge officers if they are teetollers. Some of the greatest generals were drunks and womanizers and that includes Napoloen and Ataturk.

From my own personal perspective Bangla should never have been included in the Pakistan federation in 1947. There is no country on earth where the mainland has smaller population and the satellite is larger. It would be like having the earth spining around the moon. It is simply unworkable. Please refer to infographic below.

The sad part of the Pakistan leadership was so driven by power and greed. So sedated by religious slogans that they could not think beyond their noses. Having taken in Bangla in the Pakistan federation by 1970 moves to do 'Banglaxit' should have been taking place. Not ignore geography and reality by sending our brave soldiers on a hopeless mission.

 

[Kaptaan]

Pakistan should have taken 1971 to learn and finally move on. Instead Pakistan injected even more of the failed thinking. The Turkish losses in WW1 gave way to understanding that religion was not a sufficient vehicle to build countries on. Yes, religion can help but one should not entirely build a foundation on religion. When the Arab Muslims, Kurdish Muslims turned on the Ottoman armies and joined the European invaders it was a singular lesson. The Turks learn't and moved forwar.

When the Muslim Banglas turned on their Muslim Pakistani soldiers and then joined in with Hindu Indian invaders it should have been a singular lesson. Pakistan still has to learn ..