Struggle not against Imran Khan but those who brought him into power: Nawaz Sharif

[Saiyan0321]

PML-N supremo Nawaz Sharif on Sunday, while addressing the much-hyped PPP-hosted multiparty conference in Islamabad, said that the opposition's struggle was not against Prime Minister Imran Khan but those who brought him into power through the 2018 elections.

He was addressing the conference, aimed at devising a strategy to oust the PTI-led coalition government, via video link from London. The speech marked the deposed prime minister's political comeback after more than a year. He has been in the UK since November last year for medical treatment.

"Our foremost priority should be removing this selected government and this system. Our struggle is not against Imran Khan," said Nawaz. "Today, our struggle is against those who installed Imran Khan and who manipulated elections to bring an incapable man like him into power and thus, destroyed the country."



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Struggle not against Imran Khan but those who brought him into power: Nawaz Sharif

All eyes on Islamabad as opposition meets at PPP-hosted multiparty conference to devise anti-govt strategy.

www.dawn.com

 

[Saithan]

I remember some Pakistanis I know were quite happy to get IK and hoping he would be able to push forward necessary changes much like RTE in Turkey. How much has those wishes changed since politicians abroad are brooding to come back ? Isn’t it bad that such politicians plan such action abroad. Much like Thailands PM who ran with a fortune and tried controlling the country through his sister

 

[Saiyan0321]

I remember some Pakistanis I know were quite happy to get IK and hoping he would be able to push forward necessary changes much like RTE in Turkey.

Well he has the hope government and whenever the hope government comes to power, people will celebrate however let me clarify, the political atmosphere of the country was extremely polarized in 2018 where if one supported Imran, the other supported Nawaz. It was like that, similar to the election results frankly.

How much has those wishes changed since politicians abroad are brooding to come back ?

Politicians have nothing to do that, The thing is that post his arrival, the Inflation shocked the people as prices shot up and the economy dwindled and his steps were a mess with one thing for a month and then the other and the other and as roads broke down, things got expensive, it has become a joke to state 'This is Naya Pakistan' and before the election, i would meet so many that would support Irman. It was like that but now, i scarcely meet people who support him apart from those on Social Media or PDF. His popularity has hit a snag and is falling however that doesnt mean the people want these parties. The people hate them as well and see them as those that want to eat the country... Hopelessness would be a good measure to tell the mood of the people.

sn’t it bad that such politicians plan such action abroad.

They can plan all they want. People dont like them. Imran's graph has fallen ALOT but they have not filled the hole. They hated Nawaz because of his corruption and incompetence. What can he offer that is different from Imran? They are just angry that they dont get to eat this country whereas their sons and daughters are sitting there and Shahbaz once promised to drag zardari through the streets of Lahore due to its corrupt rule in 2008-2013 but now he sits and eats from the same plate. All are same and all have allowed the military to encroach into politics and if today the army would whistle and they would start running to them. ALL OF THEM!

Much like Thailands PM who ran with a fortune and tried controlling the country through his sister

Nah, our politics is different. You need to be here if you want people to support you and the army needs you here as well.


The guy whines about Army breaking their Baluchistan government but who empowered the sardars over there? who empowered the National Party and got so many sardars into their Party? Nawaz played a crucial role in securing the control of the sardars in Baluchistan and he wouldnt touch their power at all allowing them to crush the people of Baluchistan to a pulp. If today the province has no literacy and the police is useless and the courts cant convict anybody with power, its because the sardars there are so powerful that to do so would be a death sentence. This is thanks to PMLN and their 2013-2018 policy of trying to maintain peace by empowering the sardars rather than use the insurgency as a great opportunity to weaken them. They became so strong that they banded together at the behest of the military and formed their own party called Baluchistan Awami Party and will be the central ruling party for a long time and the province will witness corruption and conscious incompetence under the control of Sardars and now he whines about Baluchistan government.

 

[Nilgiri]

I remember some Pakistanis I know were quite happy to get IK and hoping he would be able to push forward necessary changes much like RTE in Turkey. How much has those wishes changed since politicians abroad are brooding to come back ? Isn’t it bad that such politicians plan such action abroad. Much like Thailands PM who ran with a fortune and tried controlling the country through his sister

Thailand is very different situation in political patronage. Thaksin didn't try, he simply did, his sis yingluck was complete lackey set up for that....everyone knew it, in fact I have lot of behind the stories regarding this as friend of a friend was Thai General around that time.

The big issue in Thailand in general is they have 3 hierarchies in political competition/conflict (monarchy, military, civ govt), and they have system of unofficial checks and balances worked out for it given their varying institutional powers and how they are different contexts to appearance/prevalence in minds of the Thai people themselves. Thai's even have a system of words, names and jokes...but generally you need to illustrate you know and care something about Thailand for them to open up about it to you.

This is often done using the 4th hidden one (buddhist clergy) for tons of behind the scenes smoothing out (and dispute resolution of which this General has attended a fair few) and figuring out who is owed next to balance things out etc...they all pool their experiences and insights by the fingers they have each put to the wind among the Thai people and foreign power centres (DC, Beijing, Tokyo namely) that are most relevant to them.

Thailand is infact one of the most interesting countries to me to study power dynamics, there is such a complex yet balanced nature to it...I am always learning something new...I plan to learn lot more Thai language in the coming years as that seems to be the key to learning lot more.

Pakistan is way different, there is one power cabal that rules the roost, has cultivated bits of one more (a civilian one) to lackey and do its bidding (incl controlled opposition)....and it just impinges as it may on the Pakistani psyche as it does. There is really no healthy competition to be found here.

They dont have the application of civilisational institutional backdrop that Thailand has harnessed so uniquely in its case.

I am not saying the heritage for such is absent in Pakistan, it simply psychologically puts itself off from it on application for various reasons left to another topic, even outsources a huge degree of it to places like Riyadh's "royal" family...as part of some kind of (ridiculous to me, but what o I know) transactional inertia

@Joe Shearer

 

[Joe Shearer]

Thailand is very different situation in political patronage. Thaksin didn't try, he simply did, his sis yingluck was complete lackey set up for that....everyone knew it, in fact I have lot of behind the stories regarding this as friend of a friend was Thai General around that time.

The big issue in Thailand in general is they have 3 hierarchies in political competition/conflict (monarchy, military, civ govt), and they have system of unofficial checks and balances worked out for it given their varying institutional powers and how they are different contexts to appearance/prevalence in minds of the Thai people themselves. Thai's even have a system of words, names and jokes...but generally you need to illustrate you know and care something about Thailand for them to open up about it to you.

This is often done using the 4th hidden one (buddhist clergy) for tons of behind the scenes smoothing out (and dispute resolution of which this General has attended a fair few) and figuring out who is owed next to balance things out etc...they all pool their experiences and insights by the fingers they have each put to the wind among the Thai people and foreign power centres (DC, Beijing, Tokyo namely) that are most relevant to them.

Thailand is infact one of the most interesting countries to me to study power dynamics, there is such a complex yet balanced nature to it...I am always learning something new...I plan to learn lot more Thai language in the coming years as that seems to be the key to learning lot more.

Pakistan is way different, there is one power cabal that rules the roost, has cultivated bits of one more (a civilian one) to lackey and do its bidding (incl controlled opposition)....and it just impinges as it may on the Pakistani psyche as it does. There is really no healthy competition to be found here.

They dont have the application of civilisational institutional backdrop that Thailand has harnessed so uniquely in its case.

I am not saying the heritage for such is absent in Pakistan, it simply psychologically puts itself off from it on application for various reasons left to another topic, even outsources a huge degree of it to places like Riyadh's "royal" family...as part of some kind of (ridiculous to me, but what o I know) transactional inertia

@Joe Shearer

The problem is that they had a central theme - the preservation of Muslim identity - and that morphed into the linked theme - only Pakistan can preserve Muslim identity, and only the Army can preserve Pakistan.

Whatever we read now, and whatever we find our closest friends among educated and thoughtful Pakistanis trying to articulate an appropriate theme currently, are afterthoughts. These were born out of the need to replace the theme of Muslim identity that simply shattered into a million pieces in 1971; in tennis terms, this was an unforced error.

It is completely valid to say that Pakistan exists and should exist because the people of Pakistan wish it to exist. It is equally similarly valid to say that there is an underlying historical thread running through the territories adjoining the Indus that make the present territorial conformation of Pakistan a natural one for a nation-state. Both, however, have their flaws (as do all other national themes). Most important, these were NOT the reasons why Pakistan was argued for, and won from the British colonial masters, and, as a result, there is a great deal of embarrassed rubbing-the-left-leg-with-the-toe-of-the-right-foot going on in the public discourse at this moment.

It may be small consolation, or even no consolation to the Pakistani_who_thinks to see India unravel in the same way, but more rapidly and with greater bitterness. Their own central theme is lost, and no good enough replacement has taken its place.

 

[Nilgiri]

Thailand is very different situation in political patronage. Thaksin didn't try, he simply did, his sis yingluck was complete lackey set up for that....everyone knew it, in fact I have lot of behind the stories regarding this as friend of a friend was Thai General around that time.

The big issue in Thailand in general is they have 3 hierarchies in political competition/conflict (monarchy, military, civ govt), and they have system of unofficial checks and balances worked out for it given their varying institutional powers and how they are different contexts to appearance/prevalence in minds of the Thai people themselves. Thai's even have a system of words, names and jokes...but generally you need to illustrate you know and care something about Thailand for them to open up about it to you.

This is often done using the 4th hidden one (buddhist clergy) for tons of behind the scenes smoothing out (and dispute resolution of which this General has attended a fair few) and figuring out who is owed next to balance things out etc...they all pool their experiences and insights by the fingers they have each put to the wind among the Thai people and foreign power centres (DC, Beijing, Tokyo namely) that are most relevant to them.

Thailand is infact one of the most interesting countries to me to study power dynamics, there is such a complex yet balanced nature to it...I am always learning something new...I plan to learn lot more Thai language in the coming years as that seems to be the key to learning lot more.

Pakistan is way different, there is one power cabal that rules the roost, has cultivated bits of one more (a civilian one) to lackey and do its bidding (incl controlled opposition)....and it just impinges as it may on the Pakistani psyche as it does. There is really no healthy competition to be found here.

They dont have the application of civilisational institutional backdrop that Thailand has harnessed so uniquely in its case.

I am not saying the heritage for such is absent in Pakistan, it simply psychologically puts itself off from it on application for various reasons left to another topic, even outsources a huge degree of it to places like Riyadh's "royal" family...as part of some kind of (ridiculous to me, but what o I know) transactional inertia

@Joe Shearer

This video by Shekhar Gupta take on the Thailand power dynamics (i.e protests that have come up because of this below average general in power and clearly below average King now).....stays mostly on the surface (i'd estimate maybe a 25% depth penetration, given he missed out on the clergy side esp...and certain other things regarding these political parties and what the Thai people nature is which is so important).

It has a number of inaccuracies too, but overall he covers things for the reader to contrast with what I said:

But he is not so intimately linked with Thailand like I have been and continue to be ....so I give him a pass on the gaps.

A High-school friend of mine is a pretty well known figure in these current protests happening...and I have commenced praying for his safety and success...this one is likely going to be a long drawn out one for various reasons....but mostly because of this unholy partnership between king and military now (quite a new thing given previous king duration of tenure)...compared to previous king who dabbled in it but never too much (and every Thai knows when he acted out quietly against them)....given he cared a lot more for his people.