TR TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[zio]

Tubitak MAM and bilgem projects for Kaan

 

[Fatman17]

 

[Zafer]

View attachment 66937

"Turkish skies", what part of the sky is that.

 

[YusufYahia]

 

[moz68k]

This guy can't even keep basic facts straight: dates of embargoes, missile ranges, etc. It's a shame such lowest common denominator sources are so popular...

 

[moz68k]

Continuing my rant, I'd like to propose an English language wiki (free from idiotic Wikipedia mods) headed by a babayiğit from this forum on cutting-edge Turkish defence projects—starting with the KAAN. I'd like to envision it as a neutral, leading source of truth on open-source info on such projects. For instance, describe KAAN's novel EO suite, its computer architecture, ASELSAN's R&D on radar absorbing materials/structures. People jump to conclusions and say "it remains to be seen if Turkey has the capability to do the software, sensors, networking, advanced materials, powerplant etc." because info on very serious R&D being done on these very issues isn't readily available without digging through forums like DefenceHub and Secret Projects.

I don't have the time to set it up (e.g. on Fandom) or draft it, but I'd be willing to contribute parts if some brave soul actually takes the initiative. Cheers.

 

[Rooxbar]

Continuing my rant, I'd like to propose an English language wiki (free from idiotic Wikipedia mods) headed by a babayiğit from this forum on cutting-edge Turkish defence projects—starting with the KAAN. I'd like to envision it as a neutral, leading source of truth on open-source info on such projects. For instance, describe KAAN's novel EO suite, its computer architecture, ASELSAN's R&D on radar absorbing materials/structures. People jump to conclusions and say "it remains to be seen if Turkey has the capability to do the software, sensors, networking, advanced materials, powerplant etc." because info on very serious R&D being done on these very issues isn't readily available without digging through forums like DefenceHub and Secret Projects.

I don't have the time to set it up (e.g. on Fandom) or draft it, but I'd be willing to contribute parts if some brave soul actually takes the initiative. Cheers.

Excellent point; there's this phenomenon when people read about stuff they know about in the media, they recognize that the topic has been handled very poorly. Then they go on to trust the same newspaper, or source on other topics that they are less knowledgable about, forgetting that these new topics are themselves areas of interest to other people who feel the same about them.

It has a name: it's called The Gell-Mann Amnesia

Gell-Mann Amnesia

'Briefly stated, the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect is as follows. You open the newspaper to an article on some subject you know well. In Murray's case,

www.epsilontheory.com

The situation has only been exacerbated by the proliferation (and democratization) of access to exposure (aka social media). Everything I've read, heard or seen about history from generic sources (even books, but more general books) since my childhood have been proven to be almost the exact opposite of reality when I delve deeper into the topic later in life, reading specific detailed histories written by specialists. This I call the "poverty of common sense".

 

[Radonsider]

Continuing my rant, I'd like to propose an English language wiki (free from idiotic Wikipedia mods) headed by a babayiğit from this forum on cutting-edge Turkish defence projects—starting with the KAAN. I'd like to envision it as a neutral, leading source of truth on open-source info on such projects. For instance, describe KAAN's novel EO suite, its computer architecture, ASELSAN's R&D on radar absorbing materials/structures. People jump to conclusions and say "it remains to be seen if Turkey has the capability to do the software, sensors, networking, advanced materials, powerplant etc." because info on very serious R&D being done on these very issues isn't readily available without digging through forums like DefenceHub and Secret Projects.

I don't have the time to set it up (e.g. on Fandom) or draft it, but I'd be willing to contribute parts if some brave soul actually takes the initiative. Cheers.

sad and hard part is that we need to fight against Wikibots of Armenia-Greece-India and possibly some US origin. I -and others- can help people here with open source data for sensors, architecture etc but it is near impossible when you have those Wikibots working against you


Even though Fandom makes sense, people wouldnt be looking there when they have Wikipedia

 

[TR_123456]

Continuing my rant, I'd like to propose an English language wiki (free from idiotic Wikipedia mods) headed by a babayiğit from this forum on cutting-edge Turkish defence projects—starting with the KAAN. I'd like to envision it as a neutral, leading source of truth on open-source info on such projects. For instance, describe KAAN's novel EO suite, its computer architecture, ASELSAN's R&D on radar absorbing materials/structures. People jump to conclusions and say "it remains to be seen if Turkey has the capability to do the software, sensors, networking, advanced materials, powerplant etc." because info on very serious R&D being done on these very issues isn't readily available without digging through forums like DefenceHub and Secret Projects.

I don't have the time to set it up (e.g. on Fandom) or draft it, but I'd be willing to contribute parts if some brave soul actually takes the initiative. Cheers.

Military Database

WikiHub is a free, open content online military encyclopaedia created through the collaborative effort of member of the www.DefenceHub.live users. Anyone registered on the forum (the editing is currently open to some usergroups) can create an article for publication; registration is required to...

defencehub.live

 

[Heartbang]

Continuing my rant, I'd like to propose an English language wiki (free from idiotic Wikipedia mods) headed by a babayiğit from this forum on cutting-edge Turkish defence projects—starting with the KAAN. I'd like to envision it as a neutral, leading source of truth on open-source info on such projects. For instance, describe KAAN's novel EO suite, its computer architecture, ASELSAN's R&D on radar absorbing materials/structures. People jump to conclusions and say "it remains to be seen if Turkey has the capability to do the software, sensors, networking, advanced materials, powerplant etc." because info on very serious R&D being done on these very issues isn't readily available without digging through forums like DefenceHub and Secret Projects.

I don't have the time to set it up (e.g. on Fandom) or draft it, but I'd be willing to contribute parts if some brave soul actually takes the initiative. Cheers.

Largely agree with you. However, we need to devote such organized method to unfuck the Wikipedia articles and fight the Greek-Armenian-Indian lobbies there.

Normally, governments assemble teams of editors to do that work, but since our state shows deficiency in that regard, I think it is up to us Patriots of this Motherland to do that job.

We need a thread to organize such efforts.

 

[YeşilVatan]

Largely agree with you. However, we need to devote such organized method to unfuck the Wikipedia articles and fight the Greek-Armenian-Indian lobbies there.

Normally, governments assemble teams of editors to do that work, but since our state shows deficiency in that regard, I think it is up to us Patriots of this Motherland to do that job.

We need a thread to organize such efforts.

He isn't talking aobut doing stuff on wikipedia. He means a little wiki dedicated to defence projects.

Civilization V

Main page Sid Meier's Civilization V (called Civilization V or Civ5 for short) is a turn-based strategy game released on September 21, 2010. The game's first expansion pack, Gods & Kings, was released on June 19, 2012 in North America and June 22, 2012 elsewhere. A second expansion, Brave New...

civilization.fandom.com

Kinda like how the link I posted is a wiki dedicated to a video game, Civ V.

 

[blackjack]

The design of a promising multi-role fighter to replace the Su-27 and MiG-31 began in the USSR in the late 1970s. On July 5, 1981, a resolution was issued by the Central Committee of the CPSU and the Council of Ministers of the USSR on the deployment of a Targeted Comprehensive Program for the creation of such fighters.

In the late 1990s, the Sukhoi Design Bureau won a competition to create a promising fifth-generation front-line aviation complex (PAK FA) for the Russian Air Force. The project of the aircraft, designated T-50, has been developed since 1999. The preliminary design was ready by the fall of 2004.
The first flight prototype of the T-50 took off on January 29, 2010. To date, only 16 flying copies have been manufactured.
Even after 20 years of development and 15 years after its first flight, the Su57 is still not a 5th generation fighter. They fly with the old AL 41 F1 engine, developed on the basis of the AL31F engine, created back in 1984 in the USSR.
Russian officials once again promise that the new engine for the Su57 will be ready by 2028.
By 2028, 10 to 20 KAAN will be manufactured. Then the domestic engine must be ready for this.
I have been following the development of both fighters from the very beginning, and, in my opinion, the Russians will simply stop production of the SU57, as happened with their “new generation” tank, the Armata. The Russians have apparently abandoned the Su57 and are already announcing that they are developing a sixth-generation fighter. This is another Russian folk tale.
Let me remind you that the first production Su57 fell and crashed during its first flight in 2019.
When entire squadrons of KAAN appear in the sky, the Russians on the ground in their worthless SU will look at them with envy

Let's do some fact checking 1st. https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4789177.html 21 Su-57s are already in service where the total 76 in 2028 is currently going as planned even with the newer engines and avionics. https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/19644585?ysclid=lueoah5kei333331264 Now 10 or more Su-57s by the end of this year will have the 2nd stage engines, even if the current Su-57s have the 1st stage there were plans to give them 2nd stage engines while using those 1st stage engines for newer Su-35s. https://tass.com/defense/1323823 in 2025 the next batch will receive those 2nd stage engines but also with upgraded cockpit and newer avionics

That old AL 41 F1 engine is on the same level of technology as the F-22 engines. The difference between them Is the U.S. chose a low bypass ratio engine and the Russians chose a high bypass ratio engine. The low bypass ratio engines allowed the F-22 to supercruise without after burner but the down side was a lesser range where it needs external fuel tanks. The high bypass ratio engines Russia chose can't super cruise without after burners but it allowed them to have a longer range in flight which is highly needed and convenient for the amount of territory and airspace they have.... What the 2nd stage engine offers is basically having both of those advantages. https://naukatehnika.com/izdelie-30...estvennoe-foto.html?ysclid=lueq95ui9p22873394 The Fuel consumption of the 2nd stage engine is to that of the AL 31F which is basically that of the Su-27 and the Su-27s max range is 3,530kms with its current fuel of 9,400 kg while the Su-57 is at 10,300kg with the only weight difference of the Su-57 weighing 1,500kg+ more. some sources gave ranges of the Su-27 at 3700km but we might be cutting it close to a 4000km range without external fuel tanks and the aircraft can super cruise without after burners flying at mach 2+ https://ria.ru/20240205/istrebitel-1925382305.html?ysclid=lueqrfpoyr665327359

And of course they are developing 3 stream cycle engines and detonation engines and they are going back to flat nozzles because they found a way to make their use again without losing the aerodynamic performance.


The current performance on wiki with the F-16 engines for the Kaan state 55,000 Ft for flight ceiling. I am assuming they are going for the low bypass ratio engine design for the TFX because their airspace isn't that big to cover. But I guess the performance requirements or engine specs for Türkiye's new engine didn't come out yet right?

 

[Fatman17]

"Turkish skies", what part of the sky is that.

Over Turkey

 

[Dennixtoue]

Everyone's blue sky is possibly attached to Turkiye's sky the obsticle will be fixes

 

[Osman]

@blackjack, the ranges for su 27 and 57 you have mentionned, are not combat radius I suppose. What are their combat radius with a mediocre payload?

 

[blackjack]

@blackjack, the ranges for su 27 and 57 you have mentionned, are not combat radius I suppose. What are their combat radius with a mediocre payload?

Source gives a rough estimate of that. https://masterok.livejournal.com/267227.html?ysclid=lufzfuj9ed528138241
This distribution of tasks was based on a significant difference in flight range and maximum weight of the combat load: Su-27 - flight range 4000 km without refueling, payload weight 8000 kg; The MiG-29 has a flight range of 1,500 km, a payload weight of 4,000 kg, which meant that the Su-27 aircraft has a combat range of 1,600 km, that is, it can conduct air battles near the coast of the Atlantic Ocean, performing the functions of an "air raider" I think the combat radius could be somewhere between 1650km-1800km(su-57 weights 1,700kg more but it has 900kg of extra fuel) they can bump up the range with fuel tanks but I dont think that is needed. The 2nd stage is not high or low bypass but a variable engine with both advantages.
Turkiye does have the option to buy the engines if they sell them, but I think they are going for their own low bypass ratio design with more thrust to bump up the current low flight ceiling using F-16 engines. Turkiye doesn't need that much range and they can use fuel tanks if they do want a little more range.

 

[Heartbang]

Notice anything new?

TAI Kaan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Merzifonlu]

Notice anything new?

TAI Kaan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

MBDA Meteor and MBDA SPEAR-3?

 

[Yasar_TR]

Notice anything new?

TAI Kaan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

How much credibility one can attach to a Wikipedia based source is highly questionable.

With that in mind this information says that the indigenous KAAN engine production is in the hands of TAEC. Probably insinuating in between the lines that TEI and Kale will be employed to produce a TAEC designed engine under the auspices of TR-Motor and TEI.

That does however, overlaps well with @Cabatli_TR ’s posts on KAAN indigenous engine.

As this is a most important strategic piece of equipment, its development and details concerning its due production will be kept under wraps for a while.
Mouthpieces like Kotil and previously Demir, have iterated their statements on the 2028 deadline for the indigenous engine many times. That makes one think that they know more than us and not letting enough info to seep through.

 

[Heartbang]

MBDA Meteor and MBDA SPEAR-3?

They were already listed as potentially compatible weapons for export customers way back in 2021.

How much credibility one can attach to a Wikipedia based source is highly questionable.

With that in mind this information says that the indigenous KAAN engine production is in the hands of TAEC. Probably insinuating in between the lines that TEI and Kale will be employed to produce a TAEC designed engine under the auspices of TR-Motor and TEI.

That does however, overlaps well with @Cabatli_TR ’s posts on KAAN indigenous engine.

As this is a most important strategic piece of equipment, its development and details concerning its due production will be kept under wraps for a while.
Mouthpieces like Kotil and previously Demir, have iterated their statements on the 2028 deadline for the indigenous engine many times. That makes one think that they know more than us and not letting enough info to seep through.

The Turkish MIC articles in Wikipedia are woefully out of date in general. We need organized collective effort to fix that.