TR Air-Force TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[Yasar_TR]

So, first near production-representative prototype will start test flights 2025. In 2026 3/4(?) aircraft will be conducting test flights?

Will TAI start production before testing is complete?

As you probably know a jet fighter like this being produced from scratch is an ever evolving project. Every single prototype produced will serve the purpose to improve upon the previous one; until it is decided it is mature “enough” to be applied to serial production. Whilst serial production is being realised, the plane’s design and evolution doesn’t stop. It is carried on and new ideas and parts are added to the next block.

Here the important point is, when TAI will say the block 10 is ready for serial production. We have nearly 3.5 to 4 years for this to happen according to the last timeline given to us. Once BURFIS and air to air missiles with major avionics are integrated to the plane it can start it’s interceptor role. Then other missiles and munitions can be integrated in time until block 20 comes along.
There is no completion of testing. This plane will evolve during testing and manufacturing towards being 6th generation , or at least 5.5 generation.
Once it can pass through the basic requirements it could start serving the airforce in one form or another as a 4.5 generation aircraft.

 

[Huelague]

If I remember correctly, the second and so on will have different canopy and radome design than the first prototype.

But I can't find the source anymore

Yes, the final design will have some design changes. From canopy, to size to a 30 mm canon. And more matured lines.

 

[TheInsider]

TAI is trying hard to conduct the first test flight of the second KAAN prototype by the end of 2024. The second prototype won't have combat systems at the first flight of the second prototype but those systems will be integrated as the tests continue. Combat system integration will be completed by the second half of 2026. Delivery of block 10 configuration will start by the end of 2028. This is the current rough roadmap till the delivery of block 10.

 

[Quasar]

Ground radar might detect a stealth fighter at close distance however active radar seeker of missiles can not detect.

@Yasar_TR @Nilgiri could we say that hypothetical or lets say theoretical detection ranges of radars against different targets with differing RCS values has higly relevant but yet limited importance since capabities of your air to air missiles with far smaller and less power radars even with data link and GPS is equally important if not more important... and this area is the main play gound of low RCS targets.

 

[Zafer]

TAI is trying hard to conduct the first test flight of the second KAAN prototype by the end of 2024. The second prototype won't have combat systems at the first flight of the second prototype but those systems will be integrated as the tests continue. Combat system integration will be completed by the second half of 2026. Delivery of block 10 configuration will start by the end of 2028. This is the current rough roadmap till the delivery of block 10.

Seems like the time between second half of 2026 and the end of 2028 is compressible. Just add a domestic engine to make it work earlier.

 

[Saithan]

TAI is trying hard to conduct the first test flight of the second KAAN prototype by the end of 2024. The second prototype won't have combat systems at the first flight of the second prototype but those systems will be integrated as the tests continue. Combat system integration will be completed by the second half of 2026. Delivery of block 10 configuration will start by the end of 2028. This is the current rough roadmap till the delivery of block 10.

I can remember, but did we get the engines we need and did we get any additional engine as backup ? (a couple of extra in the hand would be nice).

Also if you have any info on any additional test we're going to be conducting with the first prototype, it'd be greatly appreciated.

My shortterm memory only remembers KAAN's flights. I need to have my daily flight injection in order to function....

 

[Yasar_TR]

I can remember, but did we get the engines we need and did we get any additional engine as backup ? (a couple of extra in the hand would be nice).

Also if you have any info on any additional test we're going to be conducting with the first prototype, it'd be greatly appreciated.

My shortterm memory only remembers KAAN's flights. I need to have my daily flight injection in order to function....

KAAN needs to start resuming flying tests like Hurjet is doing, in order to develop in to a plane that can become a block 10 aircraft. That is number one issue.

A second issue is the finalisation of license production agreement of f404 and f110 engines between TAI and GE. If we are to produce 11 more prototypes and 20 block 10 planes until 2028, we need over 60 units of f110 engines in the short term. And if we are to have 2 or even 3 squadrons of KAAN With f110s, then we need between 100 to 150 engines before indigenous engines are ready.
We also need at least 90 units of f404 engines for Hurjet to replace the 68 T38 trainers and 12 F5s in the aerobatic team.
It is not viable to buy them, when we can manufacture them at TEI.

As per below news piece video which has Bloomberg as the reference point of news, Türkiye has applied for permission to manufacture the KAAN’s and 40 F16 V70 jets’ engines in house at TEI. According to this video, currently 2 new KAAN prototypes are in the process of being built. There will be a further 10 units of KAAN prototypes to be produced until initial low rate serial production will start.

 

[Saithan]

KAAN needs to start resuming flying tests like Hurjet is doing, in order to develop in to a plane that can become a block 10 aircraft. That is number one issue.

A second issue is the finalisation of license production agreement of f404 and f110 engines between TAI and GE. If we are to produce 11 more prototypes and 20 block 10 planes until 2028, we need over 60 units of f110 engines in the short term. And if we are to have 2 or even 3 squadrons of KAAN With f110s, then we need between 100 to 150 engines before indigenous engines are ready.
We also need at least 90 units of f404 engines for Hurjet to replace the 68 T38 trainers and 12 F5s in the aerobatic team.
It is not viable to buy them, when we can manufacture them at TEI.

As per below news piece video which has Bloomberg as the reference point of news, Türkiye has applied for permission to manufacture the KAAN’s and 40 F16 V70 jets’ engines in house at TEI. According to this video, currently 2 new KAAN prototypes are in the process of being built. There will be a further 10 units of KAAN prototypes to be produced until initial low rate serial production will start.

If I recall correct. There was a limited number of engines we could acquire under the "prototype"/ testbed clause or something without senate etc. approval, wasn't that number 20 or something ?

 

[Yasar_TR]

If I recall correct. There was a limited number of engines we could acquire under the "prototype"/ testbed clause or something without senate etc. approval, wasn't that number 20 or something ?

I think you will find that it is dictated by monetary value rather than quantity.
Below site defines it in different categories from 14 million dollars to 300 million dollars, depending on the type of equipment and services being exported.
Whilst congressional approval is needed for ammunitions worth more than 1 million dollars, it is 14 million dollars for defence equipment, before congress is involved.

https://sgp.fas.org/crs/weapons/RL31675.pdf

 

[Samba]

TUSAS Director Demiroglu has stated that 2nd prototype will be ready in 2025 and will fly at the end of 2025. TUSAS is currently working hard to overcome the obstacles before the supply chain.

TUSAŞ Genel Müdürü Demiroğlu MMU KAAN için tarih verdi! İkinci prototip o tarihte uçacak... - Sanayi Gazetesi

Türk Havacılık Uzay Sanayii (TUSAŞ) Genel Müdürü Mehmet Demiroğlu, MMU KAAN için önemli açıklamalarda bulundu.

sanayigazetesi.com.tr

 

[TheInsider]

TUSAS Director Demiroglu has stated that 2nd prototype will be ready in 2025 and will fly at the end of 2025. TUSAS is currently working hard to overcome the obstacles before the supply chain.

TUSAŞ Genel Müdürü Demiroğlu MMU KAAN için tarih verdi! İkinci prototip o tarihte uçacak... - Sanayi Gazetesi

Türk Havacılık Uzay Sanayii (TUSAŞ) Genel Müdürü Mehmet Demiroğlu, MMU KAAN için önemli açıklamalarda bulundu.

sanayigazetesi.com.tr

This means serious delay. He cited logistic chain problems. It seems we have an embargo problem. End of 2025 is basically 2026 there is no way to complete all the tests (kinematic tests, combat system tests like BURFIS, TOYGUN, KARAT etc, weapon integration and weapon tests) in 3 years to deliver the block 10 by the end of 2028.

 

[No Name]

This means serious delay. He cited logistic chain problems. It seems we have an embargo problem. End of 2025 is basically 2026 there is no way to complete all the tests (kinematic tests, combat system tests like BURFIS, TOYGUN, KARAT etc, weapon integration and weapon tests) in 3 years to deliver the block 10 by the end of 2028.

What is there to embargo?

 

[YeşilVatan]

What is there to embargo?

Shadow embargo. Delay deliveries, overprice, BS excuses, bureucracy. We've talked about it before.

 

[No Name]

Shadow embargo. Delay deliveries, overprice, BS excuses, bureucracy. We've talked about it before.

Yes, but what components are foreign? We know that the ejector seat is British and the engine is American, but I thought that both the seat and the engine were already delivered already?

 

[Agha Sher]

Slightly off topic, but the Tempest program is in limbo. The new UK government refuses to commit to it. Apparently they want the military to either select nuclear submarines or the Tempest.

That could also mean that UK, Italy, Japan and KSA will have to find a new 5th/6th generation project to onboard.

 

[Bogeyman]

Is the UK Burying 6th Generation Fighter Jet Project Tempest?

Labour’s tough defence choice: submarines or next-generation fighter jet? https://www.thetimes.com/uk/defence/article/labours-tough-defence-choice-submarines-or-next-generation-fighter-s6kdmqht8 @TR_123456 @Kaan Azman @Kartal1 @OPTIMUS @TheInsider @Zafer @Anmdt @Merzifonlu @Nilgiri @Test7...

defencehub.live

I see the cancellation of long-term and expensive 6th generation aircraft projects by the British and the US as preparations for World War III. Because the war budget is not unlimited and the balance-changing platforms, especially, require high-volume production.

So, shape your expectations about the project schedule accordingly, people. Because we do not have the luxury of canceling Kaan.

 

[Cenkcnk]

Altay 2 loading…
Hurjet other prototypes non exist, this one is even worse

 

[uçuyorum]

Is the UK Burying 6th Generation Fighter Jet Project Tempest?

Labour’s tough defence choice: submarines or next-generation fighter jet? https://www.thetimes.com/uk/defence/article/labours-tough-defence-choice-submarines-or-next-generation-fighter-s6kdmqht8 @TR_123456 @Kaan Azman @Kartal1 @OPTIMUS @TheInsider @Zafer @Anmdt @Merzifonlu @Nilgiri @Test7...

defencehub.live

I see the cancellation of long-term and expensive 6th generation aircraft projects by the British and the US as preparations for World War III. Because the war budget is not unlimited and the balance-changing platforms, especially, require high-volume production.

So, shape your expectations about the project schedule accordingly, people. Because we do not have the luxury of canceling Kaan.

Yeah the trend seems to be that everyone is trying to bolster the number and readiness of existing equipment and delay long term commitments. Same is the case of NGAD and F/A - XX. Could be a bit of fear mongering from US to say hey we have F35 buy that quickly you won't have 6th gen in time etc. If an actual large scale war is seen as very likely could make sense. KAAN is something we needed yesterday and we are trying to make 20 by 2028 for a reason, but we are already in a war and anticipating at least 3 more wars.

 

[Bogeyman]

Yeah the trend seems to be that everyone is trying to bolster the number and readiness of existing equipment and delay long term commitments. Same is the case of NGAD and F/A - XX. Could be a bit of fear mongering from US to say hey we have F35 buy that quickly you won't have 6th gen in time etc. If an actual large scale war is seen as very likely could make sense. KAAN is something we needed yesterday and we are trying to make 20 by 2028 for a reason, but we are already in a war and anticipating at least 3 more wars.

At the end of the day, Turkey will have to decide whether to assemble the F-16 from scratch with parts from the US or to add Kaan to the inventory as Block-10. If you are going to prepare for a world war, you cannot make plans and schedules targeting the 2035s.

We urgently need to clarify our expectations regarding Kaan and see whether we will switch to a war economy.

 

[uçuyorum]

At the end of the day, Turkey will have to decide whether to assemble the F-16 from scratch with parts from the US or to add Kaan to the inventory as Block-10. If you are going to prepare for a world war, you cannot make plans and schedules targeting the 2035s.

We urgently need to clarify our expectations regarding Kaan and see whether we will switch to a war economy.

I mean we are going for every possible thing, Özgür + Eurofighter + Block 70 + KAAN and if they give F35 we would take that as well, like, not either or, but all of them.