TR TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[Nilgiri]

Very true! Most parameters of an engine and it’s related data is stored in computers and it is easier to work from a known template upwards or downwards in terms of power output, thrust etc.
TEI would have most of this information in it’s database for f110. It wouldn’t be too difficult to design an engine of similar power output.
I don’t understand the need for working with Ivchenko Progress when we have our own design bureau like it in the form of TR Motor. Especially when you consider the fact that ever since the collapse of Soviets, Ivchenko Progress has not designed a working engine. Besides if the work is given to TEI, they are more than capable to design and produce an engine like the one TR Motor is envisaging as the engine in question is so much like a f110ge132 or f110ge129EFE with 34000lbf thrust.

Agree....it confuses me bit too. Lets give it a year or two to see what goes on fruitfully.

Ivchenko might be providing consultancy work rather than deep cooperation.

Consultancy wise (avoiding big west 3 + France), TR should improve relations with Germany and rope in MTU as well if you ask me.

 

[Jacop]

20,000lb Class engine - Same class as EJ-2000, could easily power Hurjet.
View attachment 33927

Already exist?

 

[Yasar_TR]

20,000lb Class engine - Same class as EJ-2000, could easily power Hurjet.
View attachment 33927

AI9500F is an engine in only Ivchenko Progress’s new engine development program. No physical engine! And I doubt very much if it will ever materialise either. If you check Motor Sich site you will not find this engine.


quote:
The company also is continuing research on a new engine that builds on the design methods employed in developing the AI-222-25, but this will have a 21,000-pound-thrust rating.
The engine, which is still a design and not yet in prototype development, is the AI-9500F and has been in the design stage for years. Ivchenko describe the engine as being a candidate for a “lightweight tactical fighter” program, but no specific design or customer nation has been designated. The engine would be close to the thrust rating needed by China for its Shenyang FC-31 fighter that appears to be an analog to the Lockheed Martin F-35, but there have been no reports of the Chinese being willing to finance putting the engine into production.
unquote

 

[TheInsider]

AL-9500F is probably designed and shelved waiting for foreign financing because Ukraine has no money to finance that program.

 

[Combat-Master]

Already exist?

It exists on paper, needs development - a project Turkey could get into and start to nationalise engine for Hurjet.

 

[Jacop]

It exists on paper, needs development - a project Turkey could get into and start to nationalise engine for Hurjet.

Got it. Thank you

 

[Indos]

Could it be that Tusas tries to get Malaysia on board for both Hurjet and TFx projects?

Turkey has asked Malaysia quite long to join TFX, so far Malaysia doesnt show interest, it is because their Aerospace sector focuses on part manufacturing only.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

Could it be that Tusas tries to get Malaysia on board for both Hurjet and TFx projects?

Malaysian high ranking soldiers attended the first demonstration of the TfX mock-up. It was understood that Malaysia showed great interest in TfX in those days. Now the roll-out will take place on 18 March 2023. I am sure Malaysia along with Azerbaijan, Pakistan and Qatar will have a high level participation in this ceremony. TFX customers will also begin to be finalized once the aircrafr is revealed. I think Malaysia is at the top of the list of candidates for TfX. In this context, TAI may want to include Malaysia in the production of Hürjet aircraft before TFX.

 

[Huelague]

Could it be that Tusas tries to get Malaysia on board for both Hurjet and TFx projects?

What can they offer?

 

[Indos]

What can they offer?

Investment, more market, and part of supply chain ( they are supply chain of part manufacturer of Boeing/Airbus planes)

 

[TheInsider]

What can they offer?

Semi conductors are the first to come to my mind.

 

[Nilgiri]

Malaysia cannot help much with semiconductors. They own next to none of the IP involved.

Malaysian semicon fab sector (of its particular niche) needs a study of what was done in the 80s and 90s....and why and how.

 

[iceream]

Malaysia cannot help much with semiconductors. They own next to none of the IP involved.

Malaysian semicon fab sector (of its particular niche) needs a study of what was done in the 80s and 90s....and why and how.

Doesn't india own most IPs on semiconductor the work on them is done here right?

 

[Nilgiri]

Doesn't india own most IPs on semiconductor the work on them is done here right?

To some degree....but it is highly propietary in two ways....

Either the MNC owns it (Nvidia etc)

If its a defence lab etc, it is not commercial mass production grade (and uses fabless process i.e outsource to taiwan/US etc....or it uses whatever machines india managed to import with the compromises involved)

..... the designing and use (of 2nd) is quite different to commercial stuff malaysia does for example.

Malaysia does the MNC stuff with enough investment they attracted for onshore fab during mahathir era....he broadly understood the nature of what was going on in that era as cold war wound down.

 

[iceream]

To some degree....but it is highly propietary in two ways....

Either the MNC owns it (Nvidia etc)

If its a defence lab etc, it is not commercial mass production grade (and uses fabless process i.e outsource to taiwan/US etc....or it uses whatever machines india managed to import with the compromises involved)

..... the designing and use (of 2nd) is quite different to commercial stuff malaysia does for example.

Malaysia does the MNC stuff with enough investment they attracted for onshore fab during mahathir era....he broadly understood the nature of what was going on in that era as cold war wound down.

Can you explain in simpler terms

 

[TheInsider]

Malaysia cannot help much with semiconductors. They own next to none of the IP involved.

Malaysian semicon fab sector (of its particular niche) needs a study of what was done in the 80s and 90s....and why and how.

Malaysia can produce Turkish-designed chips and semiconductors for industrial needs. TR has design capability but lacks production capacity.

 

[Nilgiri]

C

Can you explain in simpler terms

Bro why does every post of yours have a cut off letter at the start before the quote lol....fix that please.

I can't really explain it in simpler terms, just google what you need man.

Malaysia can produce Turkish-designed chips and semiconductors for industrial needs. TR has design capability but lacks production capacity.

Maybe, but in fabless route, TR is just better off putting open bid for whomever can do it cheapest. There is no real value to country specific cooperation for just the production side.

Cooperation on intellectual side has real merit in comparison. For semicon, koreans, japanese and taiwanese are best bets there if you dont want to go to West.

 

[TheInsider]

Well, when you are TR you have to find a way around embargoes. TSMC for example can stop delivering Turkish-designed chips If the US comes with an order. Currently, TSMC is producing some Turkish-designed FPGAs and RiscV based processors. All of them use legacy old process nodes. Malaysia might be a fail-safe trusted option.

 

[Nilgiri]

Well, when you are TR you have to find a way around embargoes. TSMC for example can stop delivering Turkish-designed chips If the US comes with an order. Currently, TSMC is producing some Turkish-designed FPGAs and RiscV based processors. All of them use legacy old process nodes. Malaysia might be a fail-safe trusted option.

2023 TR hopefully get fresh administration and leadership. By that time the semicon pressure worldwide is hopefully eased and (design but non production) countries get more assured stable bargaining power to see what production options make sense in various timeframes and assurances.

In these interim years (2021 - 2023/24), open bid is probably way to go.

Right now Taiwan is trying to move big into malaysia production to ease their own pressure constraints. A lot of things are being shifted around and its overall best for fabless to open bid right now for generic industrial needs IMO otherwise you might get stuck overpaying in a contract.

Defence wise fabless, TR needs solid teams (and it probably already has some) to scout best options and security and assured reliablity etc.

Such people can also look to import machines in the 100nm+ architectures from various companies around the world. Often its more than enough for defence sector....since we are looking for reliability and security here (to then build specific proprietary use internally) rather than commercial bottom line stuff.

Lot of aerospace grade semicon hardware for example, its "old school" stuff in the end....because legacy+reliability+security overrides lot of bottom line stuff.

Anyway its getting off topic, this is TF-X thread.

 

[Bilal Khan(Quwa)]

2023 TR hopefully get fresh administration and leadership. By that time the semicon pressure worldwide is hopefully eased and (design but non production) countries get more assured stable bargaining power to see what production options make sense in various timeframes and assurances.

In these interim years (2021 - 2023/24), open bid is probably way to go.

Right now Taiwan is trying to move big into malaysia production to ease their own pressure constraints. A lot of things are being shifted around and its overall best for fabless to open bid right now for generic industrial needs IMO otherwise you might get stuck overpaying in a contract.

Defence wise fabless, TR needs solid teams (and it probably already has some) to scout best options and security and assured reliablity etc.

Such people can also look to import machines in the 100nm+ architectures from various companies around the world. Often its more than enough for defence sector....since we are looking for reliability and security here (to then build specific proprietary use internally) rather than commercial bottom line stuff.

Lot of aerospace grade semicon hardware for example, its "old school" stuff in the end....because legacy+reliability+security overrides lot of bottom line stuff.

Anyway its getting off topic, this is TF-X thread.

Ideally, these 'critical input industries' are ripe for multilateral investment.

If Europe can build an Airbus DS, then Turkey, Malaysia, Qatar, and Pakistan ought to build their own transnational giants. Unfortunately, the business regulatory schemes across each aren't consistent (looking at you Ralph/Pakistan), and the political environments are generally volatile. Even if you take Turkey and Pakistan to the side, Qatar itself is in a precarious spot with regard to the KSA and UAE. Unless Turkey and Pakistan can guarantee Doha's security against KSA and UAE (which, to be frank, they cannot due to other economic tie-ins), they can't form up.

20,000lb Class engine - Same class as EJ-2000, could easily power Hurjet.
View attachment 33927

I remember writing about how Ukraine's technically able to support an advanced turbofan engine program. Yes, they haven't developed one (aside from the AI-222-series), but the reality of gas turbines is that once you're "adept" with the core science, advancing is a matter of time and money. Ukraine basically needed partners to bankroll these new programs. Glad to see Turkey take the initiative, I hope Pakistan takes a page and tries getting something analogous to the RD-93MA for its long-term use. It'd be low-risk in as far as if the Ukrainian program runs into delays, Pakistan can lean on off-the-shelf WS-13s for its new program(s).