TR TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[Manomed]

Rolls-Royce offered a modified EJ-200 the first time around before talks fell through because of BMC participation in the project.

This alternative could be this modified EJ-200.

If US blocks the F110 then sacrifices might need to be made for the Programm to continue.

If you are thinking Russian engines. I would drop that. Soon Russia won’t even be able to produce engines for its own fighters.

and china is a no-go zone.

again bmc...

 

[Yasar_TR]

EJ-200 and GE F110 are of different class.

You cannot say if not F110 we will use EJ-200 in TFx, they have complete different sizes and diameters


EJ200 could be an alternative to the F404 used in Hurjet

Correct!
But RR were offering to build an engine that would suit the requirements of TFX. Not just supply the ej200 as is.
EJ200 has a TVC version which increases the thrust output by over 20%, as well as making it more durable and less fuel thirsty. They had already proposed to supply a “EJ230” engine with over 27000lbf thrust. With similar TVC modifications this engine could meet our demands, reaching over 32000lbf thrust. RR are probably working on their sixth generation jet engine already. They previously partnered GE in the development of F136 engine. So they have enough capabilities to produce a 5th generation engine under their belt. Also they would be willing to produce our engine as it would be a stepping stone to their 6th gen engine.

f136 engine: developing 40000lbf thrust with afterburner.

EJ200 TVC : developing 23100lbf thrust

Quote:

EJ2x0​

Stage 1:

• The EJ2x0 with 20% growth compared to the original EJ200. The EJ2x0 engine will have dry thrust increasing to some 72 kN (or 16,200 lbf) with a reheated output of around 103 kN (or 23,100 lbf).[15]

Stage 2:

• The new engine plan to increase the output 30% more power compared to the original EJ200. The engine will have dry thrust of around 78 kN (or 17,500 lbf) with a reheated output of around 120 kN (or 27,000 lbf).

unquote.

 

[CAN_TR]

Alternative Engine would be the EJ-200 my guess.

Also collaboration with Rolls-Royce. Let’s gooooo.

The F-110 weighs almost twice as much, more lenght and diameter. The only comparable western engines are US made P&W F-100 other alternatives in the same size category are Russian Saturn AL-31 or Chinese WS-10.

 

[Yasar_TR]

EJ200 could be an alternative to the F404 used in Hurjet

Not quite!
EJ200 is an alternative to F414 engine with 22000lbf as used in the new E and F block Gripen. Or the new Hal Tejas.

 

[Yasar_TR]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500013599963725824

It looks like RR/Kale partnership may be the way forward for the TFX engine.

 

[TheInsider]

The alternative engine is probably the XF-9 engine. It is the engine of the Japanese fighter F-X (F-3/Mitsubishi-X).

R&R offer is not EJ-200. EJ-200 is off the table as TF-X will need a big redesign. The new engine will be similar to F-110 in size.

 

[Zafer]

It is good to have two engine sources at the end.
Completely Turkish made TRmotor engine and
RR & Kale foreign engine
RR engine will only buy us time but can never replace the TR-Motor engine.

 

[Reality show]

Without a domestic engine the tfx fighter will be another defence project dream that will never come to reality

 

[Manomed]

Without a domestic engine the tfx fighter will be another defence project dream that will never come to reality

We need know how for these stuff It isn't easy to make a a working jet

 

[hawk21]

The alternative engine is probably the XF-9 engine. It is the engine of the Japanese fighter F-X (F-3/Mitsubishi-X).

R&R offer is not EJ-200. EJ-200 is off the table as TF-X will need a big redesign. The new engine will be similar to F-110 in size.

China displayed a TVC variant of the WS-10 at Zhuhai 2018. It is in the same class as the F-110/100 and AL-31 and would provide enough thrust.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Without a domestic engine the tfx fighter will be another defence project dream that will never come to reality

It was wrong to fall out with RR. They had promised to produce the engine with Kale under their new company name TAEC, and give us full autonomy in selling the engine and the planes that are using them, to third parties. Of course they would have been selling it to Tusas and making money. But it would have been produced in Turkey and we would have had another TEI like company forming under the name of KALE.
It defeats all logic that someone decided to introduce a half Qatari owned company to manage and own all engine matters and their IP rights.
It seems that we are now at the same point that we were at January 2017. 4 years wasted!
I guess better late than never!!

Kale Group and Rolls-Royce to Develop Unique Engine for Turkish Fighter

Kale Group and Rolls-Royce which is one of the world’s greatest engine manufacturers shook hands to develop aircraft engines for Turkey. Turkish Air Engine Company (TAEC) to be established with the partnership between Kale Group with 51% of the shares and Rolls-Royce with 49% aims to develop the...

www.defenceturkey.com

 

[Zafer]

It was wrong to fall out with RR. They had promised to produce the engine with Kale under their new company name and give us full autonomy in selling the engine and the planes that are using them, to third parties. Of course they would have been selling it to Tusas and making money. But it would have been produced in Turkey and we would have had another TEI like company forming under the name of KALE.
It defeats all logic that someone decided to introduce a half Qatari owned company to manage and own all engine matters and their IP rights.
It seems that we are now at the same point that we were at January 2017. 4 years wasted!
I guess better late than never!!

It may very well be that we are on more favorable terms now and it is a good thing we have dragged our feet.

 

[Yasar_TR]

It may very well be that we are on more favorable terms now and it is a good thing we have dragged our feet.

Do you know this or are you just guessing? What can justify 4 years delay and illogical stubbornness that would jeopardise the whole TFX project?

 

[Yasar_TR]

China displayed a TVC variant of the WS-10 at Zhuhai 2018. It is in the same class as the F-110/100 and AL-31 and would provide enough thrust.

Chinese engine is nowhere near as good as the Russian AL-41 series. It was lasting around 800 hours. They have only recently claimed that it can now last around 1500hours. If it is true, it is still far shorter than Russian engine (around 4000hours) and far behind the western counterparts (F110 manages around 6000hours).

 

[Reality show]

We need know how for these stuff It isn't easy to make a a working jet

I know that it needs knowledge , but in this world system no one will provide that knowledge to you , you need time to gain that knowledge , and time is not on our side , tukrey is in a place where it can be at war at anytime now , i hope that it is not late but in these cases the best thing is reverse engineering engines and other weapons .
We are in harh times , I know that it will cost a lot but it will help turkey survive during the unknown future of this world .
This is just my humble opinion according to my view on world system

 

[hawk21]

Chinese engine is nowhere near as good as the Russian AL-41 series. It was lasting around 500 hours. They have only recently claimed that it can now last around 1500hours. If it is true, it is still far shorter than Russian engine (around 4000hours) and far behind the western counterparts (F110 manages around 6000hours).

The 500 hours between overhauls figure may be a 10-year old figure, if not older. However, the figures you mentioned are not official figures, so you shouldn't take them as definitive.

On the other hand, all J-10, J-11, J-16 and J-20s being built have switched over to the WS-10 now and no more AL-31s are being bought. That should tell you something about the state of WS-10.

 

[Yasar_TR]

The 500 hours between overhauls figure may be a 10-year old figure, if not older. However, the figures you mentioned are not official figures, so you shouldn't take them as definitive.

On the other hand, all J-10, J-11, J-16 and J-20s being built have switched over to the WS-10 now and no more AL-31s are being bought. That should tell you something about the state of WS-10.

First of all ; my mistake , not 500hours but 800 hours was the lifespan of the engine. Not time between overhauls. They are claiming now that it has been increased to 1500hours with the use of new materials in their single crystal blade manufacturing processes. This news is dated October 2020!
There are F16s that have been flying with the same engine for over 20 years.

Chinese Aircraft Engines Are Actually "Chinese".....

American Engines are niche technology, Russain AL-41 Engine is advancing but still behind with western ones, where Chinese Engines Stand?

www.defencexp.com

 

[hawk21]

First of all ; my mistake , not 500hours but 800 hours was the lifespan of the engine. Not time between overhauls. They are claiming now that it has been increased to 1500hours with the use of new materials in their single crystal blade manufacturing processes. This news is dated October 2020!

Chinese Aircraft Engines Are Actually "Chinese".....

American Engines are niche technology, Russain AL-41 Engine is advancing but still behind with western ones, where Chinese Engines Stand?

www.defencexp.com

I think that news first came out in 2018 through minnie chan at SCMP, but you're right. It was 1500 hours engine lifespan and it was quoted from AVIC’s former chairman, Lin Zuoming.

But do note that ALL Chinese fighters, as I mentioned, are now using the WS-10. That should make it good enough for the TFX.

Also the Chinese progress is extremely fast so I would not expect those figures to have stayed the same. Already two next gen engines are under various stages of development -- the WS-15 having thrust comparable to F-119/F-135 in flight testing and the WS-19 is in development. Expect WS-10 to have improved and to continue to improve. It will surpass the AL-31 if it has not already (same for the Ws-15 vs AL-41).

 

[Merzifonlu]

@Yasar ;

What are the differences between 5th generation turbofan jet engines and 6th generation turbofan jet engines? Except for electric kW output powers and variable by-pass technology?

 

[Brokengineer]

So, it seems British offering a partnership to develop a 27000lbs thrust class engine to relieve some of the cost to develop for its next gen fighter.
What should we understand from this?