TR TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[Hok. K.]

İlk MMU üretim hattına giriyor

Milli Muharip Uçak (MMU) projesinde ilk prototip çok yakında üretim ve montaj hattına girecek. 18 Mart 2023’te hangardan çıkartılıp ilk motor çalıştırma işleminin gerçekleştirilmesi hedeflenen MMU projesinde süreç kesintisiz sürüyor. 9. Hava ve Aviyonik Sistemleri Semineri kapsamında...

m5dergi.com

 

[Reality show]

Your first option is what SSB president has told everyone anyway. He even insinuated that the supply/production/purchase of F110s needed for the first production run have been confirmed.
For your second option, one has to remember that US pulled out of f136 project altogether. RR may not even produce the f136 as it was first produced anyway, since it was a joint effort with GE. But RR can retain the essence of the technology and apply it to a new engine that would resemble a hybrid of f136 and F110-GE-129-EFE. In fact they may even use the design parameters TR-Motor have been working on. After all, they are a production orientated company in essence. What would take TEI years, may be close to a decade, to perfect, they would realise it within a fraction of the time. All of the British Airways planes have RR emblem on them. They are mostly RR produced engines, and/or usually derivatives of the original US engines. So it would be easy for RR to emulate western engines.
TR-Motor is a design bureau and can not produce an engine. But the work they have done to date, in the hands of a company like RR, can transform in to an engine that would suit our needs in a short time. TR-Motor’s recent cooperation with Ivchenko Progres, if they managed to employ some of their staff, may prove to be an asset to help speed things up.
But as we have examples in front of us where even a simple engine like a turbo shaft TS-1400 is not going to be ready for serial production before 2025 at best, to expect a stealthy turbofan engine the size of a f110 or even f136 to be ready before mid 2030s is nothing but, wishful thinking. We do need the collaboration with RR to make it all happen. The other options are just too long winded and not really feasible.
Just look at Japan! A country that can and have produced large turbofan engines, is going in to collaboration with RR. We need to be tied to western technology. There will be variable cycle turbofans and “variable-cycle-turbofan- ramjet engines” to come yet. We need to have our foot in the door to keep the technology flowing our way.

US5694768A - Variable cycle turbofan-ramjet engine - Google Patents

An improved variable cycle turbofan-ramjet engine is disclosed. The engine includes a split fan assembly, a bypass channel surrounding a core engine and a mode selector valve for selectively bypassing air around an aft fan and the core engine. In a first, single bypass mode of operation, the...

patents.google.com

Dont be very optimistic , new turkey strong turkey should not rely on western countries , history say it all .
And we are in a point that only stupid people have faith in western countries .
I hope it will work out , but never stop working on domestic products without any west or east influence , they are not turkey's ally we all saw what they did to turkey during rough times .
Just saying

 

[Manomed]

Dont be very optimistic , new turkey strong turkey should not rely on western countries , history say it all .
And we are in a point that only stupid people have faith in western countries .
I hope it will work out , but never stop working on domestic products without any west or east influence , they are not turkey's ally we all saw what they did to turkey during rough times .
Just saying

You can't make an engine without help from west what are you blabbering about?

 

[Reality show]

You can't make an engine without help from west what are you blabbering about?

I am glad that you are not related to turkish defebce industry .
We will be in a big problem if you were in charge .

 

[Manomed]

I am glad that you are not related to turkish defebce industry .
We will be in a big problem if you were in charge .

thats why SSB is getting help from both bae and RR?

 

[peers]

You can't make an engine without help from west what are you blabbering about?

Does anyone know how the ts1400 was made? Has assistance or technical advice been received from the West? Or did TEI design and produce it himself?
If TEI produced it on its own, isn't the problem just time?

 

[Yasar_TR]

Dont be very optimistic , new turkey strong turkey should not rely on western countries , history say it all .
And we are in a point that only stupid people have faith in western countries .
I hope it will work out , but never stop working on domestic products without any west or east influence , they are not turkey's ally we all saw what they did to turkey during rough times .
Just saying

Having re-read my post several times, I couldn’t see optimism. In fact what I saw was exactly the opposite.
Now, let’s start with TEI; Even Prof Aksit accepted that without the help and machinery GE brought in, TEI would not be in the position that it is today.
Then there is Aselsan. Thales giving all that work and passing on the knowledge made things so much easier for them.
Roketsan, would not be where they are today if the Chinese didn’t kick-start their endeavours with the artillery rockets and if ESSM partnership had not passed on vital tech info, and if Germans did not share tech in IDAS project. I can go on and on.
We are doing a similar job with TFX by working with BAE Systems. We are paying for what we are getting. But what we are getting is saving us years of research.
I do not want to run down our engineers who have done a fantastic job evolving what they have learnt and applying it to suit our needs. But without the help it would have taken much much longer than it has and we wouldn’t be where we are today. We need our foot in with the west to be close to new developments and to be able to adapt it to ourselves. Japanese are the king of emulators of western tech. We are in a way doing a similar job now.
GE partnership has created an aerospace and aero tech giant like TEI. Now RR partnership may create another one.
Turkish Industry had never invested in R&D until recently. It was always orientated in to making a quick buck. By forming partnerships we have learnt the value of Research and Development. Now we are spending billions on R&D. This was unheard of 30 years ago.
In Turkish we have a saying: “Call the bear, Uncle Dear until you cross the bridge”. But we need to do this without ever forgetting what our priorities are, and that is; “TURKEY FIRST” !!
This is what we need to do at the moment. Without rocking the boat milk the west for whatever we can get.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Does anyone know how the ts1400 was made? Has assistance or technical advice been received from the West? Or did TEI design and produce it himself?
If TEI produced it on its own, isn't the problem just time?

TEI did a fantastic job with TS-1400. They need to be applauded for it. But how did they get to produce that engine?
TEI has been producing CTS-800 engine for our T-129s under license. They had started producing T-700 engines under license too. They learned the intricacies involved in making a turbo shaft engine. If you check TS-1400 carefully, there are many similarities with the CTS-800. (Even Dr. Aksit said that they were given CTS-800 as the starting point and had to develop a radial flow turbo shaft). Yes we built it. But with tech attained from GE and Honeywell.
Your friend may teach you to ride a bicycle. But it is you who will win a gold medal in the olympic velodrome, with your hard work, talent and stamina.

 

[Zafer]

Does anyone know how the ts1400 was made? Has assistance or technical advice been received from the West? Or did TEI design and produce it himself?
If TEI produced it on its own, isn't the problem just time?

To the best of my knowledge there is no foreign design input in TS1400.

 

[Merzifonlu]

Does anyone know how the ts1400 was made? Has assistance or technical advice been received from the West? Or did TEI design and produce it himself?
If TEI produced it on its own, isn't the problem just time?

Erm, not quite. Even on a small turboshaft engine the job took a long time. For TS-1400 engine 2025 is given as the earliest mass production date. Attempting to develop the engine for the TFX/MMU without the aid of RR puts us in the position of the Indians. Or you find a revolutionary design that was never thought of, then you can produce the engine in that class without outside help.

 

[Reality show]

TEI did a fantastic job with TS-1400. They need to be applauded for it. But how did they get to produce that engine?
TEI has been producing CTS-800 engine for our T-129s under license. They had started producing T-700 engines under license too. They learned the intricacies involved in making a turbo shaft engine. If you check TS-1400 carefully, there are many similarities with the CTS-800. (Even Dr. Aksit said that they were given CTS-800 as the starting point and had to develop a radial flow turbo shaft). Yes we built it. But with tech attained from GE and Honeywell.
Your friend may teach you to ride a bicycle. But it is you who will win a gold medal in the olympic velodrome, with your hard work, talent and stamina.

I agree with you in every word , turkey gained a lot of know how because of the west in the past , but now in present , turkey is in another situation , we know that the west will give you a little of what they got when you do what they want , but the moment turkey started to play a role in its area and to protect it self from foreign dabger and inside danger outside the west well they started to embargo stuff .
Everything for a reason i beleieve in that .
I am not against what you said , i am just dont want turkey to get in another loop doing projects and in tge end west will strike back with embaroes on critical components .
Turkey has the ability abd lets hope they have the time which i dont think they have the time .
I support reverse engineering, because we all see that turkey will be under attack sooner or later , this is not a secret

 

[peers]

As far as I understand, no one believes in the idea that TRMotor designed the MMU engine and could be successful. It should be noted that the MMU has started phase 2 in the engine development process. At this stage, bids have started to be received. Havelsan's digital twin and simulation systems were used in the design process of TRMotor.
These do not mean that TRMotor can do this job, but there is an important person like Osman Dur, who makes the Altay tank engine test phase in a very short time and plans it. In addition, it was announced by Mr. İsmail Demir that the existing design and production infrastructure will be used for this work in the phase 2 process.
It would not be right to make a definite judgment, but I think the concept design of the engine was done. In this way, it is aimed to shorten the process by establishing joint working groups, just like in air defense systems. At this point, it is up to the West's own interests whether to help in exchange for its money.

 

[peers]

TEI, TRMotor and Kale can achieve the MMU engine design and production work. If get help from RR, the job will be completed in a short time.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501458287530811396

 

[Bogeyman]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501458287530811396

IRST detail at MMU

 

[Cabatli_TR]

 

[Heartbang]

any news on DIRCM for TFX? Su-57 has it.

 

[fushkee]

View attachment 40758

IRST detail at MMU

and EOT under...

 

[TheInsider]

IRST in front of the cockpit. EOTS under the nose. SOM-J launch from the internal weapons bay.

 

[TNAHN]

In the last pictures, the distance between the engines was too much. as in su 57. Reverted to the old design? Or is the animation old?