TR TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[Yasar_TR]

personal opinion I would rather have the country still try to make everything domestic production as much as possible and that is aircraft engines despite having agreement with Rolls Royce and avionics despite having an agreement with BAE, no western country likes people that encourage critical thinking for their countries and they still can change their mind later based on geopolitics.

I totally agree with you. Nothing beats indigenously produced weapons in terms of their impact in the battlefield. There are no problems with sourcing them in bulk and in any quantity you want. As they are totally made by your technicians; As well as being able to freely upgrade them to your and battlefield’s needs, as an added benefit, your enemies won‘t know what they are facing. Hence won’t know how to defend against them.
With respect to building a real 5th generation stealth fighter jet; Turkey may have had to tackle a number of obstacles had she had gone along on her own. By taking BAE Systems’ technological input, we may have at least shaved off a decade from the production time of the TFX. Come next March, our first prototype will roll out of hangar under it’s own power, albeit with US built under powered engines.
Producing a stealthy engine is not easy; It is especially sdifficult, if you have not built a turbofan engine before. So to get help from a giant like Rolls Royce is the right thing to do while we are developing our own turbofan power pack. This too is going to cut between a decade if we have snags in the development stages; or under normal conditions, half a decade if our work on our indigenous engine doesn’t hit any snags.
Final version of our TFX will have a Turkish built engine. The plane itself, although is being helped by BAE engineers (some 300 among over 5000 Turkish ones), is actually being designed and produced to our own needs and within the scope of what our airforce wants.
If one has to use an analogy; We are being shown the most efficient way to fish. But we are catching the fish we want in the manner that suits us best.

 

[blackjack]

I just hope the TFX project or aircraft will still be modified later to use domestically built engines and avionics, Canadians cant get along with you exporting some drone parts, finland and sweden cant get along with you, most countries cant get along with you buying foreign air defenses, and sadly the engines you want from a certain country for your MIUS and Akinci drone projects is having some issues with a foreign invader where both sides are saying they are winning.(now I am understanding why many users here are pissed).

Its painful but I hope its temporary because again they have some aviation projects i like, and whatever happens to Ukraine I hope their engine production does not halt for those cool drones(specifically the akinci and MIUS drones) that can use BVR missiles with 100km+ AESA radars with long combat ranges, air to ground options and stealth.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

The machine that will produce the wing of MMU

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529073779892277248

 

[MADDOG]

TAI TF-X VR simulator

You can see the support pilon thingy clearly. We might not be getting a canopy like the F-22, but perhaps more like the F-35.

More pictures...

The MFD... Incredibly disappointing. I mean I get that it has to stay as a secret, you wouldn't want to reveal such things early on. But that's basically the F-35. They could've tried AT LEAST man

 

[B.t.N]

Where there is fire, there is smoke;

https://tolgaozbek.com/savunma/demir-rolls-roycetan-mmu-motoru-icin-yanit-bekliyoruz/

DEMIR: …We await RR’s responce in relation to MMU engine!

Not a good time to ask questions on Turkey’s participation in the Tempest project I guess!

 

[Oublious]

Where there is fire, there is smoke;

https://tolgaozbek.com/savunma/demir-rolls-roycetan-mmu-motoru-icin-yanit-bekliyoruz/

DEMIR: …We await RR’s responce in relation to MMU engine!

Not a good time to ask questions on Turkey’s participation in the Tempest project I guess!

They are willing to work but with ther demands.

Demir, Rolls-Royce için de “Rolls-Royce daha önce bir teklifte bulunmuştu. Şartlarını kabul etmemiz için bizi zorluyorlardı. Her iki taraf için de mantıklı bir noktada buluşmamız gerektiğine inanıyoruz. Öncelikli şartımız motoru Türkiye’de yapmak. Fikri Mülkiyet (IP) hakları Türkiye’de kalmalı.


And about Temptest.

Tempest konusunda ise İsmail Demir, “İşbirliğini ciddiye alıyorlar. Akıllarında işbirliği fikirleri vardır. Ancak bir konuyu sorguluyoruz. MMU Projemize başladık. Onlar da Tempest projesini başlattılar ve ilk adımda bizi reddettiler. İşbirliğini samimi bulmadığımızı her defasında dile getirdik. Bu, işbirliğine karşı olduğumuz anlamına gelmez. Karşılıklı yarar sağlayacak ve haklarımızı garanti edecek bir ortaklık istiyoruz. Gelecekteki üretim teknolojisi için haklarımızı teyit etmek istiyoruz. Onların güvence altına alınmasını istiyoruz. Uçağımız için faydalı olacak modelleri görüşmeye devam edeceğiz. Genel olarak konuşursak, toplantılar olumludur. Her iki taraf da yapıcıdır.

İngiliz hükümeti olumlu davranıyor. Bunlar olumlu yönler ama her şey yolunda diyemeyiz; yarın başlayalım. Rolls-Royce’a bir Teklif Talebi (RfP) yayınladık. Cevaplarını bekliyoruz. Alacağımız cevaba göre hareket edeceğiz.



Ther is still points to be worked out, it looks like they are putting strings.

 

[B.t.N]

They are willing to work but with ther demands.

Demir, Rolls-Royce için de “Rolls-Royce daha önce bir teklifte bulunmuştu. Şartlarını kabul etmemiz için bizi zorluyorlardı. Her iki taraf için de mantıklı bir noktada buluşmamız gerektiğine inanıyoruz. Öncelikli şartımız motoru Türkiye’de yapmak. Fikri Mülkiyet (IP) hakları Türkiye’de kalmalı.


And about Temptest.

Tempest konusunda ise İsmail Demir, “İşbirliğini ciddiye alıyorlar. Akıllarında işbirliği fikirleri vardır. Ancak bir konuyu sorguluyoruz. MMU Projemize başladık. Onlar da Tempest projesini başlattılar ve ilk adımda bizi reddettiler. İşbirliğini samimi bulmadığımızı her defasında dile getirdik. Bu, işbirliğine karşı olduğumuz anlamına gelmez. Karşılıklı yarar sağlayacak ve haklarımızı garanti edecek bir ortaklık istiyoruz. Gelecekteki üretim teknolojisi için haklarımızı teyit etmek istiyoruz. Onların güvence altına alınmasını istiyoruz. Uçağımız için faydalı olacak modelleri görüşmeye devam edeceğiz. Genel olarak konuşursak, toplantılar olumludur. Her iki taraf da yapıcıdır.

İngiliz hükümeti olumlu davranıyor. Bunlar olumlu yönler ama her şey yolunda diyemeyiz; yarın başlayalım. Rolls-Royce’a bir Teklif Talebi (RfP) yayınladık. Cevaplarını bekliyoruz. Alacağımız cevaba göre hareket edeceğiz.



Ther is still points to be worked out, it looks like they are putting strings.

That is the point bro, years of negotiations largely based on an agreement of a military (and rather UK’s understanding of a) co-operation, and we are still to witness any viable outcome. Demir, in his own words, is basicaly saying there is hardly any progress. I guess I am not the only one worried about the pace and sheer ongoing of those negotiations, as we are running out of time and ammo…

EDIT: We are trying to cut a deal on the IP rights of an engine we have not even started working on yet! At this stage, I would not give a rats ass, for as long as TurAF lays hands on multiple squadrons, and as early as possible.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

İsmail Demir: We see MMU, our unmanned jet aircraft projects, our space launch projects and satellite as a springboard.

 

[B.t.N]

İsmail Demir: We see MMU, our unmanned jet aircraft projects, our space launch projects and satellite as a springboard.

No disrespect, springboard to reach where? Mars, or beyond?

 

[B.t.N]

No disrespect, springboard to reach where? Mars, or beyond?

May he should pull through an RR agreement before jumping on the alleged sprinboard, that is THE PRIORITY MISSION for now!

 

[fire starter]

May he should pull through an RR agreement before jumping on the alleged sprinboard, that is THE PRIORITY MISSION for now!

Don't u guys have JV with GE so why don't collabrate with them.

 

[B.t.N]

Don't u guys have JV with GE so why don't collabrate with them.

In current status quo, and with the same demands as in RR deal? Hell no

 

[fire starter]

In current status quo, and with the same demands as in RR deal? Hell no

You mean IP? RR also proposed us similar thing of course reality might be different.

 

[B.t.N]

You mean IP? RR also proposed us similar thing of course reality might be different.

Exclusive IP and manufacturing rights…

 

[MarcusZidanta]

How does TFX compare to F35, some say it will be better than F35 but worse than F22?

 

[Yasar_TR]

Hello, does anybody know if TFX engine will have thrust vectoring?

How does this compare to F35, some say it will be better than F35 but worse than F22?

Welcome to the forum!
TFX will not have TVC with the current engine configurations. Both f110 engines that will be used in the prototypes and the subsequent indigenous engines planned that we know of, do not have this capability. We however do not know the contents of the discussions SSB (Defence Industry Presidency) had with Rolls Royce, with respect to proposed new engine development. But if it is anything like the design TRMotor has put forward, then it is void of TVC too.
F35 has a single engine with a thrust of 40000lbf approx.
Final TFX will have 2 x 34000lbf engines
TFX will have Super Cruise capability, where as F35 can not sustain even low super cruise more than 30 minutes.
Current F35 has GaAs based Aesa radar. TFX is to have a more powerful and advanced GaN based Aesa radar. (There are however rumours that a GaN based Aesa radar being developed for f35 too)
Top speed of TFX will be higher. TFX AI systems will be better than F35 with millions more of written program lines.
Having said that by the time TFX is ready in it’s final guise, F35 will have gone through a number of upgrades and modernisations as well. So as it is on paper it may appear to be a better plane. But by the time the final plane is ready , things may be quite different.

 

[fire starter]

Welcome to the forum!
TFX will not have TVC with the current engine configurations. Both f110 engines that will be used in the prototypes and the subsequent indigenous engines planned that we know of, do not have this capability. We however do not know the contents of the discussions SSB (Defence Industry Presidency) had with Rolls Royce, with respect to proposed new engine development. But if it is anything like the design TRMotor has put forward, then it is void of TVC too.
F35 has a single engine with a thrust of 40000lbf approx.
Final TFX will have 2 x 34000lbf engines
TFX will have Super Cruise capability, where as F35 can not sustain even low super cruise more than 30 minutes.
Current F35 has GaAs based Aesa radar. TFX is to have a more powerful and advanced GaN based Aesa radar. (There are however rumours that a GaN based Aesa radar being developed for f35 too)
Top speed of TFX will be higher. TFX AI systems will be better than F35 with millions more of written program lines.
Having said that by the time TFX is ready in it’s final guise, F35 will have gone through a number of upgrades and modernisations as well. So as it is on paper it may appear to be a better plane. But by the time the final plane is ready , thing may be quite different.

Which AI system? I heard in initial variants there will be no such thing.

 

[MADDOG]

Which AI system? I heard in initial variants there will be no such thing.

Well initial variants won't be true 5th gen aircraft anyways.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Having full stealth capability as per original design parameters and having partially stealth plane, has nothing to do with possessing good AI.
Why do you think our computer engineers have been writing millions of lines of program? Flight and weapons control computers and computers controlling sensors and radars will all have been furnished with some form of artificial intelligence.
The initial batch of planes not having an engine that conforms to stealth aircraft definition is the only problem for these initial planes. That doesn’t mean that they can’t have AI installed.
A TAI top official explained that there is only one pilot in the fifth-generation aircraft and the AI acts as the second pilot, underlining that the MMU is a "more intelligent aircraft" with this feature.
Mr Kotil said: “We want to make a beautiful plane. It is a very secondary issue that will be manned and unmanned. It already has artificial intelligence in it.”

 

[TheInsider]

Partially stealth or won't be true 5th gen argument revolves around because of the F-110 engine. It has nothing to do with geometry and ram paint and coatings, sensors, etc. TFX is a truly 5th gen stealth fighter.