TR Air-Force TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[Hasanrize]

That is the statement, I bet they know better.

To take statements about engines seriously, they should come from Mahmut Akşit, not from Temel Kotil who is overoptimistic generally.

 

[Rooxbar]

That is simply not possible. The national engine is supposed to be ready for integration in 2028, then the prototype with the new engine should be tested extensively, which will take time. Remember, TS-1400 was made long ago, yet testing is longer than its design. The same will happen to MMU's engine. Afaik design of that engine is not really started; TEI is in the learning process by TF-6000/10000.

That is also almost impossible as I state here:

Mahmut Akşit has stated in multiple interviews that the preliminary schedule for the first TF6000 prototype was the first half of 2023, but that will probably be delayed into late 2023 (due to supply chain issues, not embargoes per se) and that for them to start on the production of TF10000 they need to see certain test results of TF6000, hence first prototype of TF10000 will be ready from a year to a year and a half after the TF6000 prototype.

This is what worries me about MMU engine, because we see a worrying trend looking at development history of engines from EJ200 (here; from demonstrator in 1982, first prototype in 1991 to flight certification in 1997; overall tests done on 14 prototypes), and M88 (here; component tests starting from 1978, core engine tests 1983-86, 1989 first run of the prototype, first production engine in late 1996; again 14 prototypes), to izdeliye 99 which started off in early 70s and was only fully operational in first T-10s (Su-27) entering service in 1990, to WS-15 starting development from 90s and reporting on first successful prototype tests in 2009 to where we are now in 2023 and still the engine is nowhere to be seen and last but not least the failure of decades-long Kaveri. These are smaller, less powerful older generation engines, compared to what MMU's engine is purported to be, and from companies with quite a bit of experience in developing turbofans.

I have no idea why SSB is dilly-dallying in this regard, seeing as how this is the toughest and most strategic part of any of our defense industry projects. Instead of total mobilization of forces and a strong-willed focus, we just see a very lax approach. Maybe something better is brewing behind the scenes, but from what we have heard from them this doesn't seem to be the case, as they are still waiting for a proposal from TAEC and maybe are not investing in TEI as much as they should, seeing how they are still trying to prove themselves in an at least three-year-path in developing TF6000 and TF10000 to maybe after all of this start to design MMU's engine which will be very late indeed.

 

[Boz]

<Good Friday Supreme MMU TF-X Society> {}

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1613923151444074498

 

[moz68k]

That is also almost impossible as I state here:

While I do think the timeline for the engines is optimistic, comparing their development to late and post cold war European projects is fundamentally flawed in my opinion. There was no sense of urgency for any of these platforms once the Soviet Union collapsed. The Rafale was almost killed off. A high agility interceptor concept like the EF-2000 was deemed obsolete. We don't have that luxury right now. Worst-case, an older-gen F110 equivalent must be built—maybe with blisks, like the F110-132. It'll be unproven and a little risky, but we have no other option in the long term if we want to pursue an independent foreign policy.

 

[Zafer]

That is also almost impossible as I state here:

There will be opportunities in the future to squeze time and compansate for time loss being experienced at this stage.

 

[Rooxbar]

While I do think the timeline for the engines is optimistic, comparing their development to late and post cold war European projects is fundamentally flawed in my opinion. There was no sense of urgency for any of these platforms once the Soviet Union collapsed. The Rafale was almost killed off. A high agility interceptor concept like the EF-2000 was deemed obsolete. We don't have that luxury right now. Worst-case, an older-gen F110 equivalent must be built—maybe with blisks, like the F110-132. It'll be unproven and a little risky, but we have no other option in the long term if we want to pursue an independent foreign policy.

There was very much a sense of urgency in the testing phase as they were done before Soviet collapse, as can be seen in the ASMET procedures and making of 14 testing prototypes and the required facilities to test 14 prototypes simultaneously. I very much doubt TEI has the infrastructure as of now to build and test 14 prototypes in 4-5 years as it was done by those companies; it was stated in an interview that TS1400 tests were urgently done on 5 prototypes. So that seems to be the limit for now.

 

[Oublious]

 

[Combat-Master]

 

[what]

Reminder: there is a thread for media around TF-X, thus in here please only news & information about the actual development.

 

[Umigami]

View attachment 52592

Official?

 

[Boz]

[Flip it 90° for lock screen ]

 

[Turan]

I have a question. Can we start stocking the F110 engines for the first production of the TFX 2028 now?
For example, can we order 5-6 F110s for prototype aircraft every year?
I see that Fırtına 2s can be delivered with spare engines, albeit in low numbers, can we do the same in MMU?

 

[Afif]

I have a question. Can we start stocking the F110 engines for the first production of the TFX 2028 now?
For example, can we order 5-6 F110s for prototype aircraft every year?
I see that Fırtına 2s can be delivered with spare engines, albeit in low numbers, can we do the same in MMU?

Only if USA allow it.

 

[MADDOG]

If people are still interested in the current state of the TF-X and Hürjet programs...

-Hürjet has been taken off the assembly line. It currently sits next to her mock-up. The aircraft is largely complete, with avionics and system integration activities ongoing. Unsurprisingly, the aircraft sits on her landing gears but is also assisted with jacks. The aircraft, systems wise (will be explained), is currently at a more advanced level that the MMU. As a result there are a lot of exposed wires. Engines will arrive soon.

-TF-X is more or less at a similar state. They frequently dismount the avionics, the dashboard and the canopy. The twin vertical stabilizers were also taken off. There aren't a lot of wires hanging off the aircraft. The reason as to why this is the case is simple. TAI is aiming to fly a technology demonstrator, instead of a platform that will evolve into a mass production aircraft in a short time like the Hürjet. The aircraft's performance profile will be limited, considering critical test infrastructure is not yet ready. Just because the aircraft can pull 9G's, doesn't mean it will pull 9G's. So don't expect fancy loops just yet. But don't let the tech demonstrator fool you either... I still firmly believe the TF-X that we will get in a couple of years, won't be too different from the TF-X we have today.

 

[Xenon54]

The progress and what we saw so far looks really promising and i cant wait to see the first take off yet i am a little bit concerned about the pace of the project.
They are rushing it too much imo, pushing the engineers to their limits is a dangerous game that could have bad consequences and all this for a uneccesarily fast schedule.

Some argue with urgency of the project but rushing it makes no sense for two reasons:
-There is no imadiate threat of war where we would need a 5th gen fighter.
-The only adversaries where we need 5th gen fighters would be from western sphere.

Now you will ask why it makes no sense to rush it if lets say Greece has better fighters in forseeable future, well the first engines will be American made which means these will get sanctioned imadiately in case of a war with Greece or any other western country.
Rushing the Prototype this much just bears unnecessary risks as long as there is no national engine for the plane, i would prefer a more relaxed schedule where the engineers have enough time to figure out problems and fix them instead of being in rush and overlook them.

 

[MADDOG]

So my prev post was deleted due to it being a "meme" apparently. It was actually showcasing the latest design of the aircraft. So if anyone is interested in the photo, check out Uğur Şahin's Linkedin account. He is a senior design engineer working at TAI. It isn't a 1 to 1, but you can figure certain stuff out via the shadows visible on the render.

 

[CAN_TR]

That the first flight was schedueled to end of 2023 from 2025 doest mean that the aircraft will also go 2 years earlier into production.

Before some people here dream about fast deliveries they better should know that the Air Force will probably start building the infrastructure for MMU, airbase and airfield modernization, new hangars, maintenance facilities, training simulators... before receiving the first aircrafts.

Don't rush things, that need time to grow.

 

[Xenon54]

That the first flight was schedueled to end of 2023 from 2025 doest mean that the aircraft will also go 2 years earlier into production.

Before some people here dream about fast deliveries they better should know that the Air Force will probably start building the infrastructure for MMU, airbase and airfield modernization, new hangars, maintenance facilities, training simulators... before receiving the first aircrafts.

Don't rush things, that need time to grow.

Prototype is the learning experience, rushing this one might even be worse if you ask me.

 

[Fairon]

Yes but it's elections year

Yes but delivery date isn't changed and first flight will be after elections.

Both of these are why I am still confident that earlier first flight didn't happen because of the elections.

I think it is done because they need actual data from the airframe and we don't have any test aircraft. Also I guess this is done to boost confidence to the project as well. So far we only have the Mr. Kotil's optimism but seeing and actual flying prototype make this optimism a reality and shows that it is not an empty optimism but optimism caused by progress.

Finally this is just what i feel and might be not true but we have opposing opinions from officials regarding Eurofighter procurement. This may be done to prevent panic buying Eurofighters and allocating that money to MMU as well.

 

[Ecderha]

If people are still interested in the current state of the TF-X and Hürjet programs...

-Hürjet has been taken off the assembly line. It currently sits next to her mock-up. The aircraft is largely complete, with avionics and system integration activities ongoing. Unsurprisingly, the aircraft sits on her landing gears but is also assisted with jacks. The aircraft, systems wise (will be explained), is currently at a more advanced level that the MMU. As a result there are a lot of exposed wires. Engines will arrive soon.

-TF-X is more or less at a similar state. They frequently dismount the avionics, the dashboard and the canopy. The twin vertical stabilizers were also taken off. There aren't a lot of wires hanging off the aircraft. The reason as to why this is the case is simple. TAI is aiming to fly a technology demonstrator, instead of a platform that will evolve into a mass production aircraft in a short time like the Hürjet. The aircraft's performance profile will be limited, considering critical test infrastructure is not yet ready. Just because the aircraft can pull 9G's, doesn't mean it will pull 9G's. So don't expect fancy loops just yet. But don't let the tech demonstrator fool you either... I still firmly believe the TF-X that we will get in a couple of years, won't be too different from the TF-X we have today.

Mate thank you for detail info.
But please keep in mind that you must Think before providing such detail information out of kitchen.

Sometimes people have to be more humbly in information.