TR Air-Force TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[TR_123456]

Japan Offers IHI XF9-1 Engine for India’s AMCA Program, GTRE Invited for Technical Review Amid Global Competition - Indian Defence Research Wing

SOURCE: RAUNAK KUNDE / NEWS BEAT / IDRW.ORG In a significant development for India’s Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) program, Japan has offered its advanced IHI XF9-1 low-bypass afterburning turbofan engine for co-development and potential local production, as first reported by Indian...

idrw.org

Japan has offered XF9-1 engine to India for their AMCA stealth fighter.

This is a 33000lbf + wet thrust and 24250lbf dry thrust engine using 5th generation single crystal turbine blades and specifically developed for 5th generation fighter jets.

May be we should approach Japan and IHI to inquire about using this engine for KAAN until TF35000 is fully matured. That would ease the pressure on TEI as well.

We first alienated RR with Qatar involvement. Mistake #1
We went for a very big plane that needed a large engine. Mistake #2
We got ourselves kicked out from F35 project. Mistake #3
We assumed we had an ally in the form of USA. Mistake #4
We became too verbal in our animosity towards Israel. Mistake #5

Now we are in a predicament and don’t know how to get ourselves out of it.

There is always a way out of a predicament if the administration plays the cards right. But do we have that administration with balls and determination and morals that are patriotically driven and not politically and profit driven, to sort this mess out?
After all, why are we in this mess?

View attachment 77556

Could it be that the TF35000 is ready and they are using the US as a political tool to say:

''The US said no so we did it ourselves''


After all the elections are coming.
Another thing is that if Trump wants something,it happens so he could have given us the engines if he wanted to,no matter what the congress wants.
Remember the Big Beautiful Bill.
Something is off here.

 

[Afif]

The only possibility would be to order the WS 10 engine from China via Pakistan. The engine would have to be relabeled and the transaction would have to be handled via Pakistan. The USA would find this difficult to sanction as it is officially a Pakistani engine. As already mentioned, the origin of the engine belongs to the CFM56/F-101 & AL-31F family. Of course you would have to make some modifications to the prototype, e.g. to the suspension and a few other things, but in principle it is feasible. This is the only Engine that really comes closest to the F-110 129.

Weight:
WS-10C/D: Approx. 1,700+ kg (estimated, based on WS-10A).

F110-GE-129: 1,805 kg.
The F110 is little bit heavier, suggesting the WS-10C/D might have a more compact design.

Diameter:
WS-10C/D: Approx. 1.1–1.2 m (estimated, based on
CFM56/F-101 & AL-31F Core).

F110-GE-129: 1.18 m.
Both are very similar in diameter, suitable for comparable fighter jets.

Length:
WS-10C/D: Approx. 4.7+ m. (estimated, based on WS-10C/D).

F110-GE-129: 4.63 m.
The F110 is slightly shorter, indicating a more compact build.

Thrust:
WS-10C/D: 132–140 kN (29,700–31,500 lbf, estimated) with afterburner; ~70–80 kN dry (estimated).

F110-GE-129: 131.65 kN (29,500 lbf) with afterburner; ~62.3 kN dry.
The WS-10C/D likely has a slight edge in maximum thrust, beneficial for aircraft like the J-20, though the difference is small.

There is no credible indication that PRC would be interested in selling just the WS-10C itself to Türkiye via third party or directly.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Could it be that the TF35000 is ready and they are using the US as a political tool to say:

''The US said no so we did it ourselves''


After all the elections are coming.
Another thing is that if Trump wants something,it happens so he could have given us the engines if he wanted to,no matter what the congress wants.
Something is off here.

Trump can not sell us anything unless congress approves. Upto 14million dollars of major parts or equipment can be sold without Congress approval. Also up to 50million dollars of minor equipment and services can be bought without approval.
Anything more has to go through Congress. Even though Republicans control both Houses, more importantly, pro Israeli and Greek lobbies control them before Trump.

I have a feeling that the TF35000 is ready too. But we can’t discuss feelings here as it can be just “wishful thinking” in our part.

We don’t need US approval or disapproval to produce our indigenous engine. This engine is pencilled in for an initial firing for next year anyway. It will definitely be used as a big political propaganda item. That is a certainty.

But it is also a fact that you can’t just beget an engine out of the blue. It has to go through many tests. So for the interim period we need those F110 engines to propel first squadron of KAANs.

 

[Lool]

Guys i am curious, did i miss something?
We already know that Congress is blocking a sale indirectly by not approving the sale (also CAATSA).
We already know the incompetence of some individuals.
Did Fidan say Trump will block the sale?

No
Fidan said that Congress blocked the sale and not Trump. In fact, Trump wants to include Turkey in the F35 program and sell the Turks the engine they want to generate as much profit as possible for the american 6th gen jet

Fidan also stated that Congress's actions may propel Turkey to buy engines from another country; although, that may imply that CAATSA sanctions will be introduced again if not strengthened one way or the other

 

[Sanchez]

Could it be that the TF35000 is ready and they are using the US as a political tool to say:

''The US said no so we did it ourselves''


After all the elections are coming.
Another thing is that if Trump wants something,it happens so he could have given us the engines if he wanted to,no matter what the congress wants.
Remember the Big Beautiful Bill.
Something is off here.

Noone in the electorate cares whether Kaan flies with F110s or TF35000s. Kaan existing and flying is enough for a win.

I think the discussions continue and nothing is certain so far. Nothing has changed compared to last week officially. It was probably a step in the right direction re relations.

 

[Spitfire9]

It may have made sense at the time for Turkiye and India to use American engines for the first phase of their 5G fighters but things have changed. Now the reliability of the US as a supplier puts phase 1 of KAAN and AMCA into question. Both countries need a reliable supplier. By the sound of things Japan would not qualify on that count.

India has selected SAFRAN with which to co-develop an engine for AMCA/ 12 years is the timeline expected for the project to complete development and a contract needs to be negotiated before the project can start. How long will it take Turkiye to get TF35000 into production?

 

[Turkic]

Although not officially disclosed, there were reports and rumours that the consortium in charge of developing the TF35000 consisted of RR/Kale.

Wasn't it official?

Kale Group & Rolls Royce partner to produce engines for Türkiye’s first national fighter jet: TF-X

Kale Group & Rolls Royce partner to produce engines for Türkiye’s first national fighter jet: TF-X.

www.invest.gov.tr

 

[Sanchez]

Wasn't it official?

Kale Group & Rolls Royce partner to produce engines for Türkiye’s first national fighter jet: TF-X

Kale Group & Rolls Royce partner to produce engines for Türkiye’s first national fighter jet: TF-X.

www.invest.gov.tr

This bid wasn't chosen. TAEC is defunct before it ever took off the ground as far as i'm aware. They used to have a website, that too is gone. Per public info, Turkey wanting to push Qatari involvement in the ownership of the company ultimately led RR to pull out from TRMotor as well.

 

[Sanchez]

Orko mentions where we are clearly.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1972306397842067645

If there is CAATSA against SSB in Turkey, US by law cannot export F110s to Turkey to be used on Kaan. This has been known for years. There's no Kaan by its current form as long as CAATSA is in place. I think this new explanation by Fidan on engines in not revealing a newfound information but just stating where we are for the last few years. If the idea is that US will just play nice with us, that's just childish. There's no loophole to be had like transferring Kaan to MSB instead, unless Americans absolutely want to, and why would they.

As added earlier, nothing has changed for now. But looks like it's a step in the right direction. Let's see if CAATSA is lifted by the year's end. In that case, there won't be much issues.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Wasn't it official?

Kale Group & Rolls Royce partner to produce engines for Türkiye’s first national fighter jet: TF-X

Kale Group & Rolls Royce partner to produce engines for Türkiye’s first national fighter jet: TF-X.

www.invest.gov.tr

Check the date bro! 2017!
Much water has passed under that bridge since then!
As per @Sanchez ’s post, RR had distanced itself from TRMotor.

Also SSB is subject to CAATSA. That makes it a non starter for the engines.

quote:

On 14 December, 2020, the United States imposed the sanctions on Turkey, and the sanctions included a ban on all U.S. export licenses and authorizations to Turkey's Presidency of Defense Industries (SSB) and an asset freeze and visa restrictions on Dr. Ismail Demir, SSB's president, and other SSB officers.

unquote.

 

[Armament]

Orko mentions where we are clearly.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1972306397842067645

If there is CAATSA against SSB in Turkey, US by law cannot export F110s to Turkey to be used on Kaan. This has been known for years. There's no Kaan by its current form as long as CAATSA is in place. I think this new explanation by Fidan on engines in not revealing a newfound information but just stating where we are for the last few years. If the idea is that US will just play nice with us, that's just childish. There's no loophole to be had like transferring Kaan to MSB instead, unless Americans absolutely want to, and why would they.

As added earlier, nothing has changed for now. But looks like it's a step in the right direction. Let's see if CAATSA is lifted by the year's end. In that case, there won't be much issues.

I think there is a misunderstanding. People believe that Congress blocked the sales following Erdoğan and Trump's meeting.

 

[Rooxbar]

I'm just happy to see the progress on the new prototype (the new CEO seems more professional and trustworthy imo; would be also nice if we could hear something about the RCS facility and the testbed). Also we don't really know the details of the discussions and what they will entail. Trump might whip some congressmen for all we know, although it's not that likely. But time will tell. Fidan's press conference contained great insights for the average akp voter if they had ears to hear. You can't have a fully indigenous defense industry. That's a ridiculous goal to have, to isolate yourself from R&D expenditure of much bigger economies.

 

[Rooxbar]

OMA Aerospace To Produce Hydraulic And Airframe Systems For The KAAN Project | AeroHaber | Aviation News, Tourism News And Defence News | Havacılık Haberleri, Turizm Haberleri Ve Savunma Haberleri

Under the agreement signed between TUSAŞ and the Italian Oma Aerospace Group, the production of hydraulic and electromechanical systems for the National Combat Aircraft (KAAN) will be carried out in Italy.

www.aerohaber.com

This is also a great move in that same vein.

 

[duveil]

We could have had the F-35 six years ago. Now, we are forced to wait almost 10 years for a competitive fighter jet. The funny thing is that some people still find a silver lining in this situation