The Gallipoli Campaign | Why you can't fight wars on the cheap

[Nilgiri]

religion is one those things were it makes wise men wiser and foolish men more stupid. Give religion to a moron and he turns into a bigger moron. Watch a wise man delve into religion and it will open his mind to perceive the world at a higher level. A fool has no comprehension skills and is easily mislead, deceived and manipulated. His conclusions almost always border on the ridiculous. But any wise man you know that's delved into religion perceives it in a completely different way and the religion doesnt lead him into self destruction.

I'll be stealing this quote to use later. Thanks!

 

[Ryder]

Read history. Its a fact, the canons and artillery fortifications at the Dardanelles and Bosporus were placed by Abdulhamid II, because he knew that World War I would happen.

The 3 Pasha's new this and luckily didnt remove the defences.

Everybody knew ww1 was gonna happen.

Thats why everybody was arming up and trying to maintain the balance of power.

Abdulhamid II's role was to avoid such a war as long as he can. Bismarck also said once the next war will happen something stupid in the balkans.

But it was also an inevitable it was bound to happen. And the Ottomans had to choose a side either the Entente or the Central Powers. Russia was our biggest concern as they wanted the Bogaz. Also oil powered the second industrial revolution, Ottoman lands was full of oil you know what that meant. British needed it of course thats why they planned its partition with Russia and France. Basically came to the point where had to pick Germany and Austria-Hungary. British confiscating our ships made things even worse.

 

[Ravenman]

Everybody knew ww1 was gonna happen.

Thats why everybody was arming up and trying to maintain the balance of power.

Abdulhamid II's role was to avoid such a war as long as he can. Bismarck also said once the next war will happen something stupid in the balkans.

But it was also an inevitable it was bound to happen. And the Ottomans had to choose a side either the Entente or the Central Powers. Russia was our biggest concern as they wanted the Bogaz. Also oil powered the second industrial revolution, Ottoman lands was full of oil you know what that meant. British needed it of course thats why they planned its partition with Russia and France. Basically came to the point where had to pick Germany and Austria-Hungary. British confiscating our ships made things even worse.

Abdulhamid had a good relationship with the Deutsche Kaiserreich but he would never choose the side of the Central Powers if he was in charge.

Germany, Bulgaria and Austria-Hungary were all land-based militairy powers like the Ottomans and France, UK and Russia were big naval powers. Abdulhamid would choose the Allied powers and the Ottoman state would still be alive.

 

[Ryder]

Abdulhamid had a good relationship with the Deutsche Kaiserreich but he would never choose the side of the Central Powers if he was in charge.

Germany, Bulgaria and Austria-Hungary were all land-based militairy powers like the Ottomans and France, UK and Russia were big naval powers. Abdulhamid would choose the Allied powers and the Ottoman state would still be alive.

The thing is UK and Russia got close after they settled the great game.

Also British allowed the Italians to invade Libya.

British by the 1900s has already abandoned in being allies with us. Hence why we started to get even closer with Germany. British even took Kuwait in 1913 despite the Ottomans and British doing a joint convention on its status.

Also in the Balkan wars we became diplomatically isolated.

Its all geopolitics at the end of the day the British basically propped us against the Russians but it came at a time where the British now realised the Ottomans were gonna collapse it was better they took the biggest piece rather than the French or the Russians.

A lot of Turks accepted their empire was collapsing it was a matter of time before the Turkish homeland was going to be invaded.

Abdulhamid II actually made plans for a final stand. Even if we lose it was better to go down fighting. Fatalism was high among the Turks it came to the point where we accepted we were going to lose Anadolu for good. That was the atmosphere while the Greeks and Armenians were celebrating with delight.

We should not treat our figures like a football team. I dont believe in insulting Abdulhamid ii, Enver, Talaat or Jemal. We just have to look at their good and their bad.

They were humans and the product of their time doing whatever they can to turn the tide of the empire's collapse.

We just have to respect each other when it comes to history and politics. Nobody is immune to crtisism in our history. But i believe in constructive criticism. Ataturk is a Jew or the Ottomans are Arabs and not Turks are not arguments. I easily toss those arguments into the trash where they belong.

 

[Akritas]

Dear neighbors, you forget the important role of German officers in the Gallipoli campaighn(not only but everywhere).
Military cooperation between Turkey(and Ottoman Empire) and Germany is a historical fact. After the Turkish army’s defeat in the Balkan War of 1912, Mahmud Sefket Pasa concluded that he needed German military assistance to reorganise his forces.
So, In November 1913, a German military mission was despatched under General Otto Liman von Sanders and by 2 August 1914, it numbered 71 officers of all arms.
After the outbreak of WW1, German Admiral Wilhelm Souchon broke through to Constantinople with the warships SMS Goeben and SMS Breslau. These two ships, now flying Turkish flags, added heavy muscle to the Turkish navy, of which Souchon became the commander in chief.
A month before the Allies launched amphibious attacks on 25 April 1915, Liman von Sanders...... Pasa was appointed to command the Turkish 5th Army, which was responsible for defending Gallipoli.
At this time, 1/3 of the senior commanders were German officers, for example

• General Erich Weber, who commanded the XV Corps.
• Colonel Perinet von Thauveney was his chief of staff.
• Colonel Georg von Sodenstern commanding the 5th Division
• Colonel August Nicolay commanding the 3rd Division.
• Lieutenant Colonel Hans Kannengiesser command of the 9th Division.
• Major Wilhelm Willmer commanded the "Anafarta Group", defending Suvla Bay from mid-June 1915
• Major Alexander Effnert commanded all the Fifth Army engineer units.
• Major Lierau, an experienced German heavy artillery officer, was in charge of all the Anafarta Group’s artillery from August 1915.
• and many others, not only in the Army as also and the Navy.

Victory at Gallipoli: The German–Ottoman Alliance in the First World War by Klaus Wolf | The Western Front Association

www.westernfrontassociation.com

German Soldiers and the Ottoman Empire, 1835 - 1918

www.geschkult.fu-berlin.de

 

[Ryder]

Dear neighbors, you forget the important role of German officers in the Gallipoli campaighn(not only but everywhere).
Military cooperation between Turkey(and Ottoman Empire) and Germany is a historical fact. After the Turkish army’s defeat in the Balkan War of 1912, Mahmud Sefket Pasa concluded that he needed German military assistance to reorganise his forces.
So, In November 1913, a German military mission was despatched under General Otto Liman von Sanders and by 2 August 1914, it numbered 71 officers of all arms.
After the outbreak of WW1, German Admiral Wilhelm Souchon broke through to Constantinople with the warships SMS Goeben and SMS Breslau. These two ships, now flying Turkish flags, added heavy muscle to the Turkish navy, of which Souchon became the commander in chief.
A month before the Allies launched amphibious attacks on 25 April 1915, Liman von Sanders...... Pasa was appointed to command the Turkish 5th Army, which was responsible for defending Gallipoli.
At this time, 1/3 of the senior commanders were German officers, for example

• General Erich Weber, who commanded the XV Corps.
• Colonel Perinet von Thauveney was his chief of staff.
• Colonel Georg von Sodenstern commanding the 5th Division
• Colonel August Nicolay commanding the 3rd Division.
• Lieutenant Colonel Hans Kannengiesser command of the 9th Division.
• Major Wilhelm Willmer commanded the "Anafarta Group", defending Suvla Bay from mid-June 1915
• Major Alexander Effnert commanded all the Fifth Army engineer units.
• Major Lierau, an experienced German heavy artillery officer, was in charge of all the Anafarta Group’s artillery from August 1915.
• and many others, not only in the Army as also and the Navy.

Victory at Gallipoli: The German–Ottoman Alliance in the First World War by Klaus Wolf | The Western Front Association

www.westernfrontassociation.com

German Soldiers and the Ottoman Empire, 1835 - 1918

www.geschkult.fu-berlin.de

Only thing the Germans did that was useful was weapons and supplies they sucked as commanders all of them except Goltz pasha.

Liman sanders was clueless. Germans saw our soldiers as cannon fodder nothing else.

Gallipoli was won due to turkish commanders defying german orders. Germans were so clueless of the terrain.

You are a greek its easy to be jealous

 

[Ryder]

Even Austro-Hungarian troops served in gallipoli let me guess you gonna claim them as central to victory.

What a bunch of bollocks. Nobody denies German contribution to the war effort but were they central to the victory no there was like 1000 germans who served in gallipoli which pales in comparsion to the thousands of Ottoman troops.

 

[Nykyus]

This Russian film praises the victory of the Russian Army against the Ottoman Army in the eastern theater of operations in the First World War. The Russian Empire insisted that the Dardanelles and the city of Constantinople be given to them. A secret treaty was concluded in 1915, which was confirmed in 1916, with which Great Britain and France agreed, as a reward for participating in the First World War on the side of the Entente. Previously, these powers, Great Britain and France, have always denied Russia this.
Russian Russian victory under the command of the Russian officer Yudenich in the capture of the heavily fortified Turkish fortress of Erzurum is praised. It says that the Turks did not expect a winter attack, they thought that the Russians would celebrate Christmas, but Yudenich prepared well for this attack and attacked on December 29. The losses of the Turks amounted to 60 thousand, the losses of the Russians 8,5 thousand and 6 thousand frostbitten.
After the conquest of Trebizond, Yudenich planned to capture Sinop and Constantinople. After the capture of Erzurum, the Ottoman Empire was forced to expose other sections of the front in Egypt and Iraq, where the British deployed.
The British, agreeing verbally and in writing with Russia, wanted to pre-empt Russia in the capture of Constantinople, that is, they were playing a double game against an ally.
Yudenich is compared to Suvorov, they also say that he has never lost a single battle there. It was well received by the Armenians, who broke the Ottoman symbolism. It is also said about Yudenich that he saved the rebellious Armenians of Van province.

He met the February Revolution in Russia in the city of Tiflis. Then, in May 1917, he was removed from office. In October 1917, he waged war against the Reds, advancing on Petrograd with a small number of troops, where he was defeated by Trotsky. During the retreat, he was robbed by the Estonian military. Russian historians claim that the Estonians stabbed in the back. They were forced to spend the night in swamps, not in hospitals. Almost half of them died from Spanish flu and typhoid fever.
The Bolsheviks who seized power in Russia established good relations with Ataturk. A lot of weapons were transferred to the Turks, including with the money left over from the Caucasian army of Yudenich, and gunpowder factories were built in Turkey. At that time, Turkey was at war with Greece.
The Bolsheviks also openly exposed the secret treaties of tsarist Russia on the possession of the Dardanelles Strait. The Bolsheviks hoped that Turkey would pursue a policy of spreading communism in the Middle East.