The origins of Pakistan-Turkish BROTHERHOOD

Kaptaan

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Indian republic founded after British Indian rule ended.
It is remarkable how Indian's use 'India' [present day Indian Republic] when the fact of the matter is there was a BRITISH INDIA prior to 1947. I was just going through UK National Archives yesterday from the partition files. They record talk of "establishment of two dominions of Pakistan and Hindustan".
 

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It is remarkable how Indian's use 'India' [present day Indian Republic] when the fact of the matter is there was a BRITISH INDIA prior to 1947. I was just going through UK National Archives yesterday from the partition files. They record talk of "establishment of two dominions of Pakistan and Hindustan".
The British official document clearly states India and Pakistan as the new Dominions.


And of course India and solely Republic of India (erstwhile Dominion of India) is the successor state of British India

At the time of the Partition of the country, a financial agreement was reached between the Government of India and Pakistan. Under this agreement, India undertook to take over all the liabilities of undivided India and pay the principal as well as the interest on the entire debt while the Government of Pakistan was required to pay its share of the debt, estimated at Rs. 300 crores to the Indian Government in fifty annual and equal instalments beginning from 1952.

Pakistan never paid its share. Thus, with Independence India inherited from the British a dead-weight debt which put an additional burden on the Income Tax-payer.

If Pak would have been a successor state it would have borne the debt. It didn't.
 

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Kaptaan

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The next ruling lobby in this territory will be consist of Russia ,Turkey, China and Pakistan
FROM THE ROLE OF TURKISH DRONE POWER IN AZERBAIJAN WAR TO PAKISTAN-TURKEY FRIENDSHIP

Welcome to defence hub. Nice to see fresh Pakistani blood here.
 

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I like Turkey but let's be honest to ourselves besides religion there is very little an average Pakistani has with a Turk and the modern state to state relations merely is the cause of US Cold War strategy

In many ways you would be right.

However arguably in the most important way, Pakistan has always stood by Turkeys side. That is something the Turks and Turkey will not find the world over, not from anyone else.

And that moral character to stand by Turkeys side no matter how difficult and dangerous it can be, elevates Pakistans position in the Turks eyes right to the top. Since the common Turk at his core is a soldier and the soldier only loves God more then honour and loyalty.
 

Kaptaan

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In many ways you would be right.

However arguably in the most important way, Pakistan has always stood by Turkeys side. That is something the Turks and Turkey will not find the world over, not from anyone else.

And that moral character to stand by Turkeys side no matter how difficult and dangerous it can be, elevates Pakistans position in the Turks eyes right to the top. Since the common Turk at his core is a soldier and the soldier only loves God more then honour and loyalty.
I would give a more nuanced answer to the post by my esteemed friend @Yankeestani I think there is lot more then just religion that Turks and Pakistani's converge on. Even if that convergence is not in sync. Let me explain. Turks being exposed to Europe are higher up the developent continuum then Pakistan. This means Pakistan's are on the same road as Turks but where you are today we are in 1900. This applies culturally and sociologically. You will find Pakistani's who have gone through this process of developemt are far closer to Turks. I personanally on my visits to Turkey felt more at home in Istanbul then London or Islamabad. My level of social evolution is closer to Turks.

And as we move forward Pakistan as a peoples will also evolve and converge with Turks. The Turks have charted a path from traditional Islam to a post modern culture. That is a important for all Muslims as future goal. And Pakisatan will one day follow that path to where you aree today.
 

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I would give a more nuanced answer to the post by my esteemed friend @Yankeestani I think there is lot more then just religion that Turks and Pakistani's converge on. Even if that convergence is not in sync. Let me explain. Turks being exposed to Europe are higher up the developent continuum then Pakistan. This means Pakistan's are on the same road as Turks but where you are today we are in 1900. This applies culturally and sociologically. You will find Pakistani's who have gone through this process of developemt are far closer to Turks. I personanally on my visits to Turkey felt more at home in Istanbul then London or Islamabad. My level of social evolution is closer to Turks.

And as we move forward Pakistan as a peoples will also evolve and converge with Turks. The Turks have charted a path from traditional Islam to a post modern culture. That is a important for all Muslims as future goal. And Pakisatan will one day follow that path to where you aree today.

A strong Pakistan is not only good for Pakistan but its also good for Turkey. Its why i have always advocated pulling Pakistan into Turkish projects whether it be defence related or commercial. I rather see Pakistan become joint shareholders of our success instead of just merely buyers.

I know within many defence related companies we have positions open to Pakistanis, but for me its not enough. The more Turkey does to help Pakistan become stronger, the stronger Turkey becomes.
 

Kaptaan

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Then there events from epic moments in history. Lala Turk [Lala in Pashto means elder brother] -

Abdur Rahman Peshawari (Turkish: Abdurrahman Peşaveri; Urdu: عبدالرحمن پشاوری‎;[a]‎ 1886–1925), also known as Abdurrahman Bey[3] (Turkish: Peşaverli Abdurrahman Bey), was a Turkish soldier, journalist and diplomat who was born in Peshawar (now Pakistan).

  • Soldier
  • Diplomat
  • Journalist

A TV series is about to be made about him.


1611953624717.png


1611953648751.png
 

KKF 2.0

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Then there events from epic moments in history. Lala Turk [Lala in Pashto means elder brother] -

Abdur Rahman Peshawari (Turkish: Abdurrahman Peşaveri; Urdu: عبدالرحمن پشاوری‎;[a]‎ 1886–1925), also known as Abdurrahman Bey[3] (Turkish: Peşaverli Abdurrahman Bey), was a Turkish soldier, journalist and diplomat who was born in Peshawar (now Pakistan).

  • Soldier
  • Diplomat
  • Journalist

A TV series is about to be made about him.


View attachment 13037

View attachment 13038
He had a significant role in the early years of the Anadolu News Agency.

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/anadolu-ag...pathan-first-anadolu-agency-reporter/1793204#
 

suryakiran

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MISSION IMPOSSIBLE :
THE GREAT CENTO LET DOWN!


During the 1971 war maj Gen (Retd) S WAJAHAT HUSSAIN, former Pakistan Ambassador to AUSTRALIA and GREECE was deputed by the government of Pakistan to mobilise logestic from our CENTO allies. His observations are a tremendous pointers to self-reliance


The East Pakistan crisis was nearing its climax. Its agonising demise was clearly on the horizon whilst the West Pakistan’s military and political situation was deteriorating. One evening reviewing the fast moving events amongst our colleagues in important assignments all showed concern and despair. I was waiting for posting as the start of the War ended NDC Course I was attending and the National Defence College had closed down. None of us had any illusions about the reported move of the US Seventh Fleet and the expected para drops of "friends from across the mountains"! The expected Indian offensive launched in East Pakistan supported by Mukti Bahinis, immediately after our weak showing of hands in West Pakistan, had moved fast supported by their armour through the Eastern Command’s supposedly un-tankable country, poised to encircle Dhaka. General Niazi’s dispersed forces in penny packets along the border, instead of concentrating to defend Dacca, against the fundamental rules of defence, left the capital defenceless. Our fallacious political and strategic myth of "East Pakistan’s defence lay in West Pakistan" was in tatters. Our weak ripostes in West Pakistan failed to make any dent whilst the enemy having successfully contained us had occupied some real estate. Our Airforce failing to repeat its ‘65 performance had lost its edge as the IAF with impunity inflicted heavy losses. Logistically with the extensive stocking of Eastern Wing for protracted operations, we had scrapped the barrels in the West. Political control was lost and the Army High Command was in disarray. The nation, dumb-founded was in perilous shock. Earlier in the day I have had two close shaves thanks to low flying Indian fighters: in the second one just scraped through with my son under my arm as the MIGs bursts scraped overhead missing us by inches outside my Topi Park residence.


The same night on urgent summons from GHQ learnt of appointment as special envoy of the President to proceed post-haste on a very special and most urgent mission to Tehran and Ankara to expedite procurement of defence supplies from our friends, requested months ago under the CENTO agreement, negotiate fresh defence requirements and immediately arrange trans-shipment of our blocked supplies. lying in Europe via Turkey and Iran to Pak border: the three services were facing serious shortages, and assistance from our CENTO partners was expected under the agreement and understanding between the members. Our ambassadors in Tehran and Turkey, both senior professional diplomats, had been re-assuring with no results! Even the contracts signed more than six months ago with the Turks, our regular suppliers, for badly needed artillery ammunition had not been honored. The desertion of East Pakistan sailors from our ships aggravated the situation as ships were stranded with abandoned defence stores, at Odessa and other ports. Trans-shipment of these stores across Turkey by train and through Iran by road was to be arranged.


The foreign office next day was to brief me and make necessary arrangements with Tehran and Ankara. President’s letter of appointment was under issue. Proceeding to Peshawar by staff car and then by mail bus to Kabul to be flown to Tehran was all arranged.


Next morning coordinating the urgent requirement of the three services was flooded with frantic requests from fighter aircrafts, submarines to blankets and boots! Pathetic that country exporting textiles and leather products could not even supply blankets and boots to its Forces? POFs production was held up for want of a small box of critical spares of small arms to be sent by PIA on collection from their regular Turkish suppliers, who had not replied inspite of repeated requests. Foreign office briefing was most disappointing, nor was any cell for crisis management was set up. In a slipshod manner reference to some "understanding under CENTO for assistance and between the Heads of States", was mentioned with the stock answer to consult the Ambassadors concerned. Luckily in the Army we all kept fairly abreast with current developments in international relations. Recently having led two defence delegations to Iran conversant with our relations knew the Iranians well.


Ironically receiving in the late afternoon my appointment letter as "Special Envoy Minister Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary" with the substantial sum of US Twenty five million dollars placed at my disposal - that very day Dacca fell I was leaving for my onerous mission! The last official letter General Yahya signed! Reaching Peshawar late at night saw his house set ablaze by the angry mob, arrived Kabul next evening by the mail-cum-coal rickety bus. Ambassador General Shireen with difficulty having arranged a seat in Iran Air, after un-loading an air hostess, got me to Tehran next morning. Ambassador Shahnawaz in Tehran though overly optimistic had arranged meetings with General Toofanian, the all powerful Shah’s Defence/War Minister, in an hour’s time and if needed audience with the Shahinshah. Having had an audience with the Shah day earlier he had informed HIM of my visit. He did add Shah’s great concern over Russia’s concentration of a dozen divisions on the border in Azarbaijan! Our competent Defence Attached accompanying me hurriedly briefed me on the way on the actual situation to inform that the Iranians had made no commitments whatsoever, only offering at high price their unsaleable poor quality civilian blankets having earlier promised to give army blankets from their reserve stock.


On the way reflecting my country’s plight with the adverse turn of events my last meeting with the Shah and Toofanian earlier in the year in Lahore flashed in my mind; whilst giving a specially arranged armour demonstration projecting our Chinese tanks characteristics to impress upon the Shah for its proposed combined Iran-Pak production as part of CENTO cooperation.


Toofanian, immediately recognizing, was very affable and after extending his and Shahinshah’s concern over the tragedy started by offering an AA Artillery Regiment of 40-mm Bofors WWII Vintage. Aware of Iranian keenness to dispose off their obsolete junk, I politely refused to accept, mentioning that we may have suffered major setback but were a modern army with current equipment. He then regretted any other material help without US clearance but were ready to buy for us anything at two five percent commissions, which I flatly refused remembering having been taken for rides with such deals in the 1965 War.
He offered "excellent Iranian blankets at DM 40 per piece" upon which I could not help saying that Pak Army could endure another winter without such expensive blankets. Reminding him of his last promise for supply from their army reserve he backed out as no longer available. During our conversation he spoke to Shahinshah apprising him of our meeting. With nothing forthcoming we discussed the passage of our supplies overland from Turkey to our border to which after lot of hesitation and conditions he agreed. Futile to follow any further, I returned to the Embassy and informed the surprised Ambassador of the actual negative position. Defence Secretary and GHQ were immediately informed, the former said Tehran’s response was expected directing me to proceed to more helpful Ankara.


Next day after meeting Ambassador Iftikhar Ali in Ankara Embassy, expecting longish stay, I was given an office in the Embassy. The Turks showed lot of affection and sympathy but were reticent to help. The defence heirarcy responsible for logistics and assistance consistently dragged their feet. With great difficulty after a fortnight’s efforts got them for a meeting to talk seriously. Across the table all very senior and nearly twice my age Generals kept on harping on brotherly love, serving lot of tea and sweets with sympathy, but short on substance. Kept postponing further meetings on slightest pretexts. Meanwhile, expecting long haul protracted negotiations I had arranged for our UKs supply mission officers to join me with instructions to collect the latest prices and conditions of armaments, ammunition etc. available in UK and European markets. They did a great job working round the clock. Having contacted the topman of the Turkish Munitions factory, similar to POF, learnt that our contract for badly needed ammunition signed well before the war, with advances paid, was still inoperative for unknown reasons. Similarly the small packet of spares despite daily promises was not dispatched. In the next meeting the generals gave a list of armaments available to assist us, remarking that in view of US embargo on third party transfer they could not part with any of their equipment mostly supplied by US. However, they would make immediate request to General Haig, US Chief of Staff, for special permission to assist their valued CENTO Member. The list was most intriguing! Racking my brain, though well up to date with modern armament developments, I could not identify any of the items. Suddenly it dawned that they were all World War I and Gallipoli campaign left over, the last wars Turks fought! Also learnt that the Russians had concentrated 30 Divisions on their Anatolian border.


Back at home the political climate had changed with Mr. Bhutto in power and General Gul Hasan as Army Chief. Although on arrival sensing the atmosphere I had signaled GHQ that "contrary to GHQ/Ministry’s expectations nothing was available on shelves to pick up and dispatch" they kept pressing for expeditious actions. Realising the futility of the "brotherly approach" I decided to deal squarely in clear business terms. Consequently, next time cutting out all frills, told them politely but firmly that we had faced temporary setbacks but were neither down militarily nor economically and were a modern army therefore thanking them their offer of the museum pieces was not acceptable. I reiterated my disappointment to them over the time and manner the negotiations had dragged on impressing upon them that "had Turkey been in trouble without getting involved in any such meetings we would have opened our stores to the Turkish brothers to take whatever they needed". Whereupon apologetically they showed their inability to offer any current stuff but offered to buy anything for us at small agreed commission which I turned down. The matter of prolonged delay in not supplying contracted ammunition came up. They came out for the first time with new price, due to price escalation and dollar fluctuations, having jacked it up by more than US$ 15.00 per piece to the contractual agreed price! Having done our homework, I replied that though we were under no contractual obligations to pay their new ridiculous high price but taking all factors into account and for the sake of our friendship no more than 2.5 dollars would be added to the previously agreed price. If that was not acceptable we could buy readily available and cheaper ammunition in Europe terminating our contract. After considerable discussion at last they relented, came down to our re-negotiated price promising to start delivery soon.


Soon after we discovered they tried to pass on very old ammunition charging for new: warning them that any ammunition older than one year will be charged at 5% depreciation in price and nothing more than 2/3 years will be acceptable : finally agreed by them. About the same time a very large sum of money as normal transaction between POF and Turkish factory arrived to be paid to them. Inviting their Manager, a nice and cooperative person I had come to respect, asked him in confidence the real reason for not sending the small package to Wah. He confided that he had orders from the top not to send anything without advance cash payment! Flabbergasted I responded "having just paid you millions do you think we won’t be able to pay few thousand dollars for these miserable little items, please wait and I will get you the money now and you take my officer to your factory and give him the package". While he waited I got a cheque from the ambassador for him. The same afternoon at last the package was duly dispatched by PIA.


We then pursued the passage of our defence stores lying at Istanbul, Odessa and other ports. After considerable running round arrangements were finally made for their safe transit with some amusing experiences. Accompanied by the Ambassador we called on the Railway Minister at Istanbul to tie-up movement program. As usual after long expressions of love, sympathy, special considerations etc. and agreeing to our requests, he ceremoniously unlocked his drawer and presented me a "highly classified very exclusive document for our real friend, "copy of their goods and parcels trains time table! I could not restrain myself from saying "your excellency thanks for this, I appreciate your kind considerations but may I say such documents in my country are available for few cents at every railway stalls and book shops".


Realising the improvement in our political situation and certain there won’t be another round, it was pointless to try for any other items at exhorbitant prices. Preferring to wait during the breather we got we could get better equipment at more acceptable prices. Though I kept on pressing the Turks for the promised clearance from General Haig, making it quite a joke; the "Bottle of Haig" never arrived as I knew it would not! However,


My conducting officer, a senior Turkish Colonel, informed me that the Turkish Government wanted to make a presentation to their brother country of some badly needed arms and armament and would I please see the stores. Despite my polite decline he kept on pestering me. Finally, I agreed to have a look after the Ambassador’s persistence : in a small army store lying in a corner were few coils of telephone cables, couple of old rusted 3-in mortars and similar bits and pieces! I felt like crying: was it a joke, an affront or mere ignorance!
Quietly I turned about controlling myself with great difficulty! Luckily soon after Mr. Bhutto arrived on his whirl word tour of Muslim countries. Having known my mission he was fully briefed on the situation. He remarked that having learnt of the CENTO Members negative approach he was getting out of the organisation. I was instructed to return after winding up the affairs. Soon after clearing my decks I returned bringing back intact the much needed funds placed at my disposal, procuring the badly needed artillery ammunition at our price and arranging the trans-shipment of our stranded warlike stores to Pakistan. Whatever the Turks so graciously gave us during the crisis was later duly returned with thanks by Mr. Bhutto/Pakistan Army.


The Mission was a very frustrating and bitter experience but an interesting and useful eye-opener nevertheless, placing in correct practical perspective our fallacious approach and mythical notions. My detailed report submitted to the Army Chief and Ministry of Defence perhaps never saw light of the day. The lessons enumerated were obvious. But as with all political and some military lessons the only lesson we have learnt is not to learn; with disdain and impunity.



wajahat1.jpg (10658 bytes)
THE AUTHOR

Ambassador Maj Gen (Retd) S. Wajahat Hussain is a Graduate from Muslim University Aligarh (India). Joined the First Post World War II Regular Course at the (British) Indian Military Academy Dehra Dun, was commissioned in 1946 in the Indian Armoured Corps' 21st KGVO Central India Horse. At Partition serving with his regiment in the Punjab Boundary Force, participated in active operations in East Punjab maintaining law and order and escorting millions of Muslim refugees to Pakistan. Held various command, staff and instructional appointments including ADC to C-in-C Army, BM Armoured Brigade, Directing Staff Command and Staff College, command of armoured regiments, colonel staff armoured division and armoured brigade commander. Commanding an Armoured Task Force participated in the 1965 War in the Battles of Chawinda sector and was awarded Imtiazi Sanad. In the 1971 crisis was the President's Special Envoy to CENTO countries for defence support. Commanded an armoured division and was Commandant of the Command and Staff College, Quetta. To study the 1973 Arab-Israeli Ramadan War lessons led Prime Minister's Special Defence Delegation to Cairo, Damascus and Amman and submitted the 1973 Arab-Israel War Report for Pakistan Government. Was Ambassador to Greece and later to Australia, New Zealand, Fiji and South Pacific Islands. His Military education includes National Defence College and Graduation from Command and Staff College Quetta, The Royal Armoured Corps School UK and The Armour School Fort Knox, USA. Presently The Colonel of the Guides Cavalry FF.
 

Nilgiri

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MISSION IMPOSSIBLE :
THE GREAT CENTO LET DOWN!


During the 1971 war maj Gen (Retd) S WAJAHAT HUSSAIN, former Pakistan Ambassador to AUSTRALIA and GREECE was deputed by the government of Pakistan to mobilise logestic from our CENTO allies. His observations are a tremendous pointers to self-reliance


The East Pakistan crisis was nearing its climax. Its agonising demise was clearly on the horizon whilst the West Pakistan’s military and political situation was deteriorating. One evening reviewing the fast moving events amongst our colleagues in important assignments all showed concern and despair. I was waiting for posting as the start of the War ended NDC Course I was attending and the National Defence College had closed down. None of us had any illusions about the reported move of the US Seventh Fleet and the expected para drops of "friends from across the mountains"! The expected Indian offensive launched in East Pakistan supported by Mukti Bahinis, immediately after our weak showing of hands in West Pakistan, had moved fast supported by their armour through the Eastern Command’s supposedly un-tankable country, poised to encircle Dhaka. General Niazi’s dispersed forces in penny packets along the border, instead of concentrating to defend Dacca, against the fundamental rules of defence, left the capital defenceless. Our fallacious political and strategic myth of "East Pakistan’s defence lay in West Pakistan" was in tatters. Our weak ripostes in West Pakistan failed to make any dent whilst the enemy having successfully contained us had occupied some real estate. Our Airforce failing to repeat its ‘65 performance had lost its edge as the IAF with impunity inflicted heavy losses. Logistically with the extensive stocking of Eastern Wing for protracted operations, we had scrapped the barrels in the West. Political control was lost and the Army High Command was in disarray. The nation, dumb-founded was in perilous shock. Earlier in the day I have had two close shaves thanks to low flying Indian fighters: in the second one just scraped through with my son under my arm as the MIGs bursts scraped overhead missing us by inches outside my Topi Park residence.


The same night on urgent summons from GHQ learnt of appointment as special envoy of the President to proceed post-haste on a very special and most urgent mission to Tehran and Ankara to expedite procurement of defence supplies from our friends, requested months ago under the CENTO agreement, negotiate fresh defence requirements and immediately arrange trans-shipment of our blocked supplies. lying in Europe via Turkey and Iran to Pak border: the three services were facing serious shortages, and assistance from our CENTO partners was expected under the agreement and understanding between the members. Our ambassadors in Tehran and Turkey, both senior professional diplomats, had been re-assuring with no results! Even the contracts signed more than six months ago with the Turks, our regular suppliers, for badly needed artillery ammunition had not been honored. The desertion of East Pakistan sailors from our ships aggravated the situation as ships were stranded with abandoned defence stores, at Odessa and other ports. Trans-shipment of these stores across Turkey by train and through Iran by road was to be arranged.


The foreign office next day was to brief me and make necessary arrangements with Tehran and Ankara. President’s letter of appointment was under issue. Proceeding to Peshawar by staff car and then by mail bus to Kabul to be flown to Tehran was all arranged.


Next morning coordinating the urgent requirement of the three services was flooded with frantic requests from fighter aircrafts, submarines to blankets and boots! Pathetic that country exporting textiles and leather products could not even supply blankets and boots to its Forces? POFs production was held up for want of a small box of critical spares of small arms to be sent by PIA on collection from their regular Turkish suppliers, who had not replied inspite of repeated requests. Foreign office briefing was most disappointing, nor was any cell for crisis management was set up. In a slipshod manner reference to some "understanding under CENTO for assistance and between the Heads of States", was mentioned with the stock answer to consult the Ambassadors concerned. Luckily in the Army we all kept fairly abreast with current developments in international relations. Recently having led two defence delegations to Iran conversant with our relations knew the Iranians well.


Ironically receiving in the late afternoon my appointment letter as "Special Envoy Minister Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary" with the substantial sum of US Twenty five million dollars placed at my disposal - that very day Dacca fell I was leaving for my onerous mission! The last official letter General Yahya signed! Reaching Peshawar late at night saw his house set ablaze by the angry mob, arrived Kabul next evening by the mail-cum-coal rickety bus. Ambassador General Shireen with difficulty having arranged a seat in Iran Air, after un-loading an air hostess, got me to Tehran next morning. Ambassador Shahnawaz in Tehran though overly optimistic had arranged meetings with General Toofanian, the all powerful Shah’s Defence/War Minister, in an hour’s time and if needed audience with the Shahinshah. Having had an audience with the Shah day earlier he had informed HIM of my visit. He did add Shah’s great concern over Russia’s concentration of a dozen divisions on the border in Azarbaijan! Our competent Defence Attached accompanying me hurriedly briefed me on the way on the actual situation to inform that the Iranians had made no commitments whatsoever, only offering at high price their unsaleable poor quality civilian blankets having earlier promised to give army blankets from their reserve stock.


On the way reflecting my country’s plight with the adverse turn of events my last meeting with the Shah and Toofanian earlier in the year in Lahore flashed in my mind; whilst giving a specially arranged armour demonstration projecting our Chinese tanks characteristics to impress upon the Shah for its proposed combined Iran-Pak production as part of CENTO cooperation.


Toofanian, immediately recognizing, was very affable and after extending his and Shahinshah’s concern over the tragedy started by offering an AA Artillery Regiment of 40-mm Bofors WWII Vintage. Aware of Iranian keenness to dispose off their obsolete junk, I politely refused to accept, mentioning that we may have suffered major setback but were a modern army with current equipment. He then regretted any other material help without US clearance but were ready to buy for us anything at two five percent commissions, which I flatly refused remembering having been taken for rides with such deals in the 1965 War.

He offered "excellent Iranian blankets at DM 40 per piece" upon which I could not help saying that Pak Army could endure another winter without such expensive blankets. Reminding him of his last promise for supply from their army reserve he backed out as no longer available. During our conversation he spoke to Shahinshah apprising him of our meeting. With nothing forthcoming we discussed the passage of our supplies overland from Turkey to our border to which after lot of hesitation and conditions he agreed. Futile to follow any further, I returned to the Embassy and informed the surprised Ambassador of the actual negative position. Defence Secretary and GHQ were immediately informed, the former said Tehran’s response was expected directing me to proceed to more helpful Ankara.


Next day after meeting Ambassador Iftikhar Ali in Ankara Embassy, expecting longish stay, I was given an office in the Embassy. The Turks showed lot of affection and sympathy but were reticent to help. The defence heirarcy responsible for logistics and assistance consistently dragged their feet. With great difficulty after a fortnight’s efforts got them for a meeting to talk seriously. Across the table all very senior and nearly twice my age Generals kept on harping on brotherly love, serving lot of tea and sweets with sympathy, but short on substance. Kept postponing further meetings on slightest pretexts. Meanwhile, expecting long haul protracted negotiations I had arranged for our UKs supply mission officers to join me with instructions to collect the latest prices and conditions of armaments, ammunition etc. available in UK and European markets. They did a great job working round the clock. Having contacted the topman of the Turkish Munitions factory, similar to POF, learnt that our contract for badly needed ammunition signed well before the war, with advances paid, was still inoperative for unknown reasons. Similarly the small packet of spares despite daily promises was not dispatched. In the next meeting the generals gave a list of armaments available to assist us, remarking that in view of US embargo on third party transfer they could not part with any of their equipment mostly supplied by US. However, they would make immediate request to General Haig, US Chief of Staff, for special permission to assist their valued CENTO Member. The list was most intriguing! Racking my brain, though well up to date with modern armament developments, I could not identify any of the items. Suddenly it dawned that they were all World War I and Gallipoli campaign left over, the last wars Turks fought! Also learnt that the Russians had concentrated 30 Divisions on their Anatolian border.


Back at home the political climate had changed with Mr. Bhutto in power and General Gul Hasan as Army Chief. Although on arrival sensing the atmosphere I had signaled GHQ that "contrary to GHQ/Ministry’s expectations nothing was available on shelves to pick up and dispatch" they kept pressing for expeditious actions. Realising the futility of the "brotherly approach" I decided to deal squarely in clear business terms. Consequently, next time cutting out all frills, told them politely but firmly that we had faced temporary setbacks but were neither down militarily nor economically and were a modern army therefore thanking them their offer of the museum pieces was not acceptable. I reiterated my disappointment to them over the time and manner the negotiations had dragged on impressing upon them that "had Turkey been in trouble without getting involved in any such meetings we would have opened our stores to the Turkish brothers to take whatever they needed". Whereupon apologetically they showed their inability to offer any current stuff but offered to buy anything for us at small agreed commission which I turned down. The matter of prolonged delay in not supplying contracted ammunition came up. They came out for the first time with new price, due to price escalation and dollar fluctuations, having jacked it up by more than US$ 15.00 per piece to the contractual agreed price! Having done our homework, I replied that though we were under no contractual obligations to pay their new ridiculous high price but taking all factors into account and for the sake of our friendship no more than 2.5 dollars would be added to the previously agreed price. If that was not acceptable we could buy readily available and cheaper ammunition in Europe terminating our contract. After considerable discussion at last they relented, came down to our re-negotiated price promising to start delivery soon.


Soon after we discovered they tried to pass on very old ammunition charging for new: warning them that any ammunition older than one year will be charged at 5% depreciation in price and nothing more than 2/3 years will be acceptable : finally agreed by them. About the same time a very large sum of money as normal transaction between POF and Turkish factory arrived to be paid to them. Inviting their Manager, a nice and cooperative person I had come to respect, asked him in confidence the real reason for not sending the small package to Wah. He confided that he had orders from the top not to send anything without advance cash payment! Flabbergasted I responded "having just paid you millions do you think we won’t be able to pay few thousand dollars for these miserable little items, please wait and I will get you the money now and you take my officer to your factory and give him the package". While he waited I got a cheque from the ambassador for him. The same afternoon at last the package was duly dispatched by PIA.


We then pursued the passage of our defence stores lying at Istanbul, Odessa and other ports. After considerable running round arrangements were finally made for their safe transit with some amusing experiences. Accompanied by the Ambassador we called on the Railway Minister at Istanbul to tie-up movement program. As usual after long expressions of love, sympathy, special considerations etc. and agreeing to our requests, he ceremoniously unlocked his drawer and presented me a "highly classified very exclusive document for our real friend, "copy of their goods and parcels trains time table! I could not restrain myself from saying "your excellency thanks for this, I appreciate your kind considerations but may I say such documents in my country are available for few cents at every railway stalls and book shops".


Realising the improvement in our political situation and certain there won’t be another round, it was pointless to try for any other items at exhorbitant prices. Preferring to wait during the breather we got we could get better equipment at more acceptable prices. Though I kept on pressing the Turks for the promised clearance from General Haig, making it quite a joke; the "Bottle of Haig" never arrived as I knew it would not! However,


My conducting officer, a senior Turkish Colonel, informed me that the Turkish Government wanted to make a presentation to their brother country of some badly needed arms and armament and would I please see the stores. Despite my polite decline he kept on pestering me. Finally, I agreed to have a look after the Ambassador’s persistence : in a small army store lying in a corner were few coils of telephone cables, couple of old rusted 3-in mortars and similar bits and pieces! I felt like crying: was it a joke, an affront or mere ignorance!

Quietly I turned about controlling myself with great difficulty! Luckily soon after Mr. Bhutto arrived on his whirl word tour of Muslim countries. Having known my mission he was fully briefed on the situation. He remarked that having learnt of the CENTO Members negative approach he was getting out of the organisation. I was instructed to return after winding up the affairs. Soon after clearing my decks I returned bringing back intact the much needed funds placed at my disposal, procuring the badly needed artillery ammunition at our price and arranging the trans-shipment of our stranded warlike stores to Pakistan. Whatever the Turks so graciously gave us during the crisis was later duly returned with thanks by Mr. Bhutto/Pakistan Army.


The Mission was a very frustrating and bitter experience but an interesting and useful eye-opener nevertheless, placing in correct practical perspective our fallacious approach and mythical notions. My detailed report submitted to the Army Chief and Ministry of Defence perhaps never saw light of the day. The lessons enumerated were obvious. But as with all political and some military lessons the only lesson we have learnt is not to learn; with disdain and impunity.



wajahat1.jpg (10658 bytes)
THE AUTHOR

Ambassador Maj Gen (Retd) S. Wajahat Hussain is a Graduate from Muslim University Aligarh (India). Joined the First Post World War II Regular Course at the (British) Indian Military Academy Dehra Dun, was commissioned in 1946 in the Indian Armoured Corps' 21st KGVO Central India Horse. At Partition serving with his regiment in the Punjab Boundary Force, participated in active operations in East Punjab maintaining law and order and escorting millions of Muslim refugees to Pakistan. Held various command, staff and instructional appointments including ADC to C-in-C Army, BM Armoured Brigade, Directing Staff Command and Staff College, command of armoured regiments, colonel staff armoured division and armoured brigade commander. Commanding an Armoured Task Force participated in the 1965 War in the Battles of Chawinda sector and was awarded Imtiazi Sanad. In the 1971 crisis was the President's Special Envoy to CENTO countries for defence support. Commanded an armoured division and was Commandant of the Command and Staff College, Quetta. To study the 1973 Arab-Israeli Ramadan War lessons led Prime Minister's Special Defence Delegation to Cairo, Damascus and Amman and submitted the 1973 Arab-Israel War Report for Pakistan Government. Was Ambassador to Greece and later to Australia, New Zealand, Fiji and South Pacific Islands. His Military education includes National Defence College and Graduation from Command and Staff College Quetta, The Royal Armoured Corps School UK and The Armour School Fort Knox, USA. Presently The Colonel of the Guides Cavalry FF.

Quite interesting to read.

The Original link (you missed): http://www.defencejournal.com/march98/missionimp1.htm

This is why I have always said substance substance substance (over emotional drama and psychological baggage) is of the greatest vital import to any nation....especially ones that have been trampled on and in the pits a long long while and are looking to renew and grow again....simply because we cannot afford the emotional stasis and privilege/pity tantrums.

Us Indians took our while after partition to find our way, our resilience on this matter (given the trauma of that event and what it meant for the concept of nation in first place vis a vis religion in the minds of so many and too many).

But as we found our way, the adversary (that is aligned to the emotional huff-puff antithesis of this psychologically) often mocks it as "Chanakyan" or "Banya" mentality etc etc

I think I have counted at least a dozen times or more I have asked one of these type of true-to-emotionalism (dbled + tripled down on it ever more) adversaries a simple question....

i.e Why does Turkey (or Iran or other latch-on-to-for-feelings source) trade what it does with India.....compared to what it does with them....given the same expression of brotherhood and other platitudes still swirl in the air apparently.

Why this contrast in reality of the average joe choices compared to elitist drama and shenanigans?

But the emotionally triumphant/destitute (depending on perspective) always make some of the most flimsiest laughable excuses (or worse ignore and chose to degrade the convo another way instead).

In the end, everyone (be they Turks, Persians or whomever) kind of understands deep down what and where this is coming from. Its not like folks outside the realm suddenly stopped reading history if they are of the worthy sort.

You see it most viscerally when Afghans take a certain tone with this lot too....and see the squirming of river valley folks as the rude wake up call in what a receiver projecting as pitcher actually entails when the actual asserted pitcher isn't playing ball with that drama. The Afghans (igiven state of their country) of all people boldly and frequently do this.....

This is why, as interesting as this account is.....I would need to hear the account from the other side (Turks and Persians) regarding these matters (when push came to shove in fundamental way for existence of 1947's "pure" land version 1.0).

I would trust the Turks and Persian account (named people with named histories going back well before 20th century) of it far far more....having seen the duplicity acted out by the psychologically compromised "need to latch on" "pureland my concocted name so good" types too many times already.

This is going to open up in a big way going forward...even more than it has done so far. Dawdle heads really don't understand the root of their rut enough at the top. Head in the clouds.....fake spine to one, proven servility to another....all because the "purity" is of ultimate essence....its in the brand name after all....takfiri-shed half the original asserted nation as required even.

@VCheng
 

Jackdaws

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Quite interesting to read.

The Original link (you missed): http://www.defencejournal.com/march98/missionimp1.htm

This is why I have always said substance substance substance (over emotional drama and psychological baggage) is of the greatest vital import to any nation....especially ones that have been trampled on and in the pits a long long while and are looking to renew and grow again....simply because we cannot afford the emotional stasis and privilege/pity tantrums.

Us Indians took our while after partition to find our way, our resilience on this matter (given the trauma of that event and what it meant for the concept of nation in first place vis a vis religion in the minds of so many and too many).

But as we found our way, the adversary (that is aligned to the emotional huff-puff antithesis of this psychologically) often mocks it as "Chanakyan" or "Banya" mentality etc etc

I think I have counted at least a dozen times or more I have asked one of these type of true-to-emotionalism (dbled + tripled down on it ever more) adversaries a simple question....

i.e Why does Turkey (or Iran or other latch-on-to-for-feelings source) trade what it does with India.....compared to what it does with them....given the same expression of brotherhood and other platitudes still swirl in the air apparently.

Why this contrast in reality of the average joe choices compared to elitist drama and shenanigans?

But the emotionally triumphant/destitute (depending on perspective) always make some of the most flimsiest laughable excuses (or worse ignore and chose to degrade the convo another way instead).

In the end, everyone (be they Turks, Persians or whomever) kind of understands deep down what and where this is coming from. Its not like folks outside the realm suddenly stopped reading history if they are of the worthy sort.

You see it most viscerally when Afghans take a certain tone with this lot too....and see the squirming of river valley folks as the rude wake up call in what a receiver projecting as pitcher actually entails when the actual asserted pitcher isn't playing ball with that drama. The Afghans (igiven state of their country) of all people boldly and frequently do this.....

This is why, as interesting as this account is.....I would need to hear the account from the other side (Turks and Persians) regarding these matters (when push came to shove in fundamental way for existence of 1947's "pure" land version 1.0).

I would trust the Turks and Persian account (named people with named histories going back well before 20th century) of it far far more....having seen the duplicity acted out by the psychologically compromised "need to latch on" "pureland my concocted name so good" types too many times already.

This is going to open up in a big way going forward...even more than it has done so far. Dawdle heads really don't understand the root of their rut enough at the top. Head in the clouds.....fake spine to one, proven servility to another....all because the "purity" is of ultimate essence....its in the brand name after all....takfiri-shed half the original asserted nation as required even.

@VCheng
This guy went to buy weapons after Dacca had fallen and the biggest surrender in WW2 by the Pak forces. Now if I am a seller of weapons, I would not want to sell my weapons to a country which just surrendered half its territory. It's bad PR and would dissuade future buyers. Imagine selling your weapons to a country only for that country to ceremoniously lay down that very weapon and not put up a fight.
 

Nilgiri

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This guy went to buy weapons after Dacca had fallen

This seems to have been at some point after war broke but before fall/liberation of dhaka.

He refers to the fall + surrender as climax that was "nearing" at start. It was 2 weeks after all.
 

VCheng

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This is why I have always said substance substance substance (over emotional drama and psychological baggage) is of the greatest vital import to any nation....especially ones that have been trampled on and in the pits a long long while and are looking to renew and grow again....simply because we cannot afford the emotional stasis and privilege/pity tantrums.

There is simply no such thing as "brotherhood" in international geopolitics, only alignments of national interests, for as long as they may stay aligned.
 

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