Turkey's future in NATO | Debate & Discussion

[Glass🚬]

We have the best allies in the world!

Where are our NATO folks by the way?

 

[Glass🚬]

Inner circles have always been apparent, we've just been blinded to it for so many years. France handing out Rafales like it's candy, USA giving away second hand Kiowas and tracked vehicles to Greece. Time to wake up people.

They will not, expect their standard 0815 bullshit responses: "WhY Do PeOpLe bElIeVe wE wOuLd be bEteRr oUtsIdE oF NaTo"?

If NATO would nuke Istanbul in a hypothetical scenario, future responses from the very same people would be:"If We LeAvE NaTo -NaTo LeD aMerIca WiLl nOt JuSt nUkE Istanbul BuT aLso Ankara" smh.

 

[Combat-Master]

They will not, expect their standard 0815 bullshit responses: "WhY Do PeOpLe bElIeVe wE wOuLd be bEteRr oUtsIdE oF NaTo"?

I already see future responses when NATO-led america nukes istanbul with the very same people making this argument:"If We LeAvE NaTo -NaTo LeD aMerIca WiLl nOt JuSt nUkE Istanbul BuT aLso Ankara" smh.

Oh I'm all for being in NATO, there are advantages for being in the "Alliance" even if we are side lined. World power is going through a shift, Turkey needs to take advantage of this. China is growing, US power is weening and Russia is growing ever more emboldened. EU is bunch of mumbling by the book liberal pansies who argue more than they agree. UK government lied to it's people so they can get the hell out of EU, the most prominent lie was Turkey joining EU and Turkish immigrants moving to the UK

 

[Glass🚬]

Oh I'm all for being in NATO, there are advantages for being in the "Alliance" even if we are side lined. World power is going through a shift, Turkey needs to take advantage of this. China is growing, US power is weening and Russia is growing ever more emboldened. EU is bunch of mumbling by the book liberal pansies who argue more than they agree. UK government lied to it's people so they can get the hell out of EU, the most prominent lie was Turkey joining EU and Turkish immigrants moving to the UK

I disagree with being in the alliance but agree with ur assessment on the shift of powers globally, example: If that emboldened Bear makes a move on Norway, why should Turkey defend Norway from a possible stand-off with the Russians if they refuse the maintenance of Penguin missiles? I connect the membership with to many headaches in the future.

 

[Khagan1923]

I disagree with being in the alliance but agree with ur assessment on the shift of powers globally, example: If that emboldened Bear makes a move on Norway, why should Turkey defend Norway from a possible stand-off with the Russians if they refuse the maintenance of Penguin missiles? I connect the membership with to many headaches in the future.

Turkey won’t help any country inside NATO, rightfully so, least countries like Norway that on purpose try to sabotage Turkey’s military and NATO’s southern front line.

You can put Sweden and Denmark on that list too who will cry for help the second the bear comes.

NATO is dead, Macron was right but for the wrong reasons.
Macron is mad he can’t use NATO for his own interests.
So he calls it dead.

But in reality NATO is dead because the majority of its members are more concerned with sabotaging and attacking one of their own members(Turkey) instead of acting and containing Russia, the main reason for NATO’s existence in the first place.

And again NATO let Ukraine down, as will it leave Eastern Europe down when the time comes.

But leaving NATO right now is a fools errand. The second you leave, Greek border becomes NATO border, Greek waters become NATO waters, Greek demands become NATO demands.

This way NATO can’t do anything serious against Turkey, at least if it wants to continue existing after the fallout after such actions.


Turkey needs at least another 10-15 years maybe if you want to be safe another 20 years before it can disconnect itself from NATO.

It will come in time.

But maybe NATO will crumble from within and cease to exist before any of it can even happen.

It wouldn’t be impossible.


Nevertheless Turkey needs to draw up plans already for when that time finally comes.

Maybe the concept of our own little alliance with allied countries.

Restoring and improving relations with important neighbors.

Things like that will be important once you take that jump.

 

[Ryder]

I disagree with being in the alliance but agree with ur assessment on the shift of powers globally, example: If that emboldened Bear makes a move on Norway, why should Turkey defend Norway from a possible stand-off with the Russians if they refuse the maintenance of Penguin missiles? I connect the membership with to many headaches in the future.

They are feeling the Heat

 

[Deliorman]

They will not, expect their standard 0815 bullshit responses: "WhY Do PeOpLe bElIeVe wE wOuLd be bEteRr oUtsIdE oF NaTo"?

If NATO would nuke Istanbul in a hypothetical scenario, future responses from the very same people would be:"If We LeAvE NaTo -NaTo LeD aMerIca WiLl nOt JuSt nUkE Istanbul BuT aLso Ankara" smh.

Dude, don’t be so emotional and try to be realistic and pragmatic for once instead of writing about idiotic things like NATO nuking Istanbul...

France, Greece, America and most of the West are and have always been our enemies... yet we are still dependent on the West for 80% of our exports, trade, investments, finances and tech.

So Turkey leaves NATO and what are the options?
Russia, Iran and most of the Arab countries have always hated us and work against us to this day. They hate Turks as much as Armenians or Greeks do but you expect them to be reliable partners.
China (the lap you want Turkey to sit on instead) kills and puts Uyghurs in concentration camps in 2021. They don’t have the military capabilities and power projection the US has and doesn’t have the ambitions to be a world policeman with bases Turkey so they won’t come to your help anytime soon too.

The only nations that we can call friends and have positive views on us are Bosniaks, Azerbaijanis, Pakistanis, Afghans, Somalis... unfortunately they are too weak, too poor and too underdeveloped to be able to help us militarily or economically against our enemies.

Turkey is in the worst neighborhood on the planet, it is surrounded from everywhere by enemies. Unfortunately it isn’t a nuclear power and it can’t even produce its own tanks, planes, ships and submarines without being dependent on Western engines and technologies. Turkey’s economy is weak and dependent on foreigners, Turkey is poor in human and natural resources. Until those facts change you can’t just do whatever you want like the big boys unfortunately...

This is why you need to play smart, be quiet and work hard. Sometimes to achieve something big in the long run you need to swallow your pride and take a step back in the short term.

 

[Fuzuli NL]

Turkey leaving the NATO would be literally playing into her enemys' hands, inside and outside NATO.

 

[CAN_TR]

They will not, expect their standard 0815 bullshit responses: "WhY Do PeOpLe bElIeVe wE wOuLd be bEteRr oUtsIdE oF NaTo"?

If NATO would nuke Istanbul in a hypothetical scenario, future responses from the very same people would be:"If We LeAvE NaTo -NaTo LeD aMerIca WiLl nOt JuSt nUkE Istanbul BuT aLso Ankara" smh.

Be in NATO but don't play after their rules, use your Veto right if NATO "allies" try to mess around with your national security.

Take anything you can as long as you can, since it's obvious that NATO is in a decline. Why on earth would US invite one small country after another into the alliance? Do you think Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Romania, Poland, Hungary etc. have the capability to stop a Russian invasion?
There is a reason why countries like France and German are PRO European Army etc. they know it aswell.

Hypothetical scenario... Putin wants to connect mainland Russia with Kaliningrad knows that US is just bluffing and wouldn't intervene therefore invades Baltic countries?
In that case Turkey's answer to NATO should be "sry bro", and let's be honest France, Italy, Spian.... would do the same also when Turkey and Russia going to war in the Caucasus for example. Let's not forget the Johnson letter...

As long as you don't have nukes, 100% independant defence industry and pretty much self sufficent economy (autarky) don't even think about leaving that would play in their hands.

 

[Blank1]

Calm down no one is leaving NATO nor there are any plans, we will stay in the alliance to irritate and annoy them and they can't kick us out unless they want to dissolve NATO.

 

[Glass🚬]

Dude, don’t be so emotional and try to be realistic and pragmatic for once instead of writing about idiotic things like NATO nuking Istanbul...

Im not emotional at all, I see huge issues in that alliance and write them as they are and Turkey being the front runner in NATO can certainly not be justified as being pragmatic.

France, Greece, America and most of the West are and have always been our enemies... yet we are still dependent on the West for 80% of our exports, trade, investments, finances and tech.

Its 50% and that doesnt mean anything. The trade relationship between China and the US is deeper, yet they are aiming at each other directly.

So Turkey leaves NATO and what are the options?

Invite the chinese and have giant party in the med, yes they will come.

Russia, Iran and most of the Arab countries have always hated us and work against us to this day. They hate Turks as much as Armenians or Greeks do but you expect them to be reliable partners.

Then continue to work against them like we have been doing in Africa already or the persian gulf? The only thing where i see a potential for a Turkish-Russian understanding is when the bear makes its moves in eastern europe. My opinion of arabs and persians is negative, Im not considering them as reliable partners with the exemption of qataris and libyans.

China (the lap you want Turkey to sit on instead) kills and puts Uyghurs in concentration camps in 2021. They don’t have the military capabilities and power projection the US has and doesn’t have the ambitions to be a world policeman with bases Turkey so they won’t come to your help anytime soon too.

Then safe them? You have the turkic council, make a plan and resettle them in turkic countries, Turkey absorbed already millions of refugees, 1million uyghurs wont do any harm and yes China is already a global power, right now primarily through their economic strength but soon their hard power will also enable them global moves, and where did I write that the Chinese would come to our help? Read through my sentences, what I write and what u understand are 2 different things, I want the chinese in Turkey to further enable them these global moves with the motivation of them challenging the americans in our neighborhood and beyond.

The only nations that we can call friends and have positive views on us are Bosniaks, Azerbaijanis, Pakistanis, Afghans, Somalis... unfortunately they are too weak, too poor and too underdeveloped to be able to help us militarily or economically against our enemies.

I have nowehere written anything about friends, positive views or whatsoever and if u believe that we are helping because we Turks are such generous people then I have to disappoint you, we have our interests in mind when we help these people.

Turkey is in the worst neighborhood on the planet, it is surrounded from everywhere by enemies. Unfortunately it isn’t a nuclear power and it can’t even produce its own tanks, planes, ships and submarines without being dependent on Western engines and technologies. Turkey’s economy is weak and dependent on foreigners, Turkey is poor in human and natural resources. Until those facts change you can’t just do whatever you want like the big boys unfortunately...

When it comes to economic matters and arms acquisitions then there is only one to blame and these are those who have continuously purchased arms knowing fully well that there is a high chance that these arms wont work. If you rely on these nations then live also with the consequences of it and I dont know if Turkeys economy is really that weak when Turkey just became the 11 largest economy in the world, i think there is mismanaged and corruption which is slowing Turkeys growth but thats another topic.

This is why you need to play smart, be quiet and work hard. Sometimes to achieve something big in the long run you need to swallow your pride and take a step back in the short term.

U need to work now on the solutions so you dont have to work on them in the future. I will always remind u NATO fanboys of that.

 

[Nilgiri]

You have the turkic council, make a plan and resettle them in turkic countries, Turkey absorbed already millions of refugees, 1million uyghurs wont do any harm

This is not the point. PRC would lose its own argument in any refugee/foreign-resettling involving the Uighur population bulk.

They are PRC citizens, the whole point is to "sinicize" them and "win" the middle-kingdom psyche self-argument/conundrum .

So such a plan will never be brought up....the uighurs simply by whatever means necessary will be made to live and exist in Turkestan to prove a CCP point....but shed over time everything about them that the CCP dislikes.

At any rate, PRC would not anything close to a newer repeat of Tibet govt in exile (And large population that left with them)...it is major continued stain on their face as they were far more rash in their approach then in the 50s (and also PRC a much weaker/newer country too).

A mod should probably move the political convo in this thread elsewhere.

 

[Kartal1]

Guys here you can discuss and debate Turkey's future in NATO with its positives and negatives. Keep the discussion civilized and feel free to give us your opinions. Thank you and have fun!

 

[Ryder]

A lot of good arguments.

Im for leaving nato while at the same time arguments to stay are convincing.

Seriously its a dilemma.

 

[Dante80]

At the current time juncture, Turkey leaving the North Atlantic Alliance cannot withstand as a weighed hypothetical the scrutiny of even a rudimentary SWOT or PEST analysis. I can't really see any dilemma given the specifics at hand, it is pretty clear-cut.

Can someone quantify what the potential benefits would be for a hypothetical 2021 exit?

 

[Sinan]

At the current time juncture, Turkey leaving the North Atlantic Alliance cannot withstand as a weighed hypothetical the scrutiny of even a rudimentary SWOT or PEST analysis. I can't really see any dilemma given the specifics at hand, it is pretty clear-cut.

Can someone quantify what the potential benefits would be for a hypothetical 2021 exit?

Just some guy throwing a fit because some NATO countries, placed embargo on Turkey. In their mind Turkey never takes a misstep, never makes an error, it's all the fault of foreign countries.

 

[Cypro]

Same nonsense ummetist neo ottoman anti western discussions over and over again.. Only short sighted people think about leaving NATO just for Today's problems. People with proper logic would understand this will only benefit enemies of Turkey. NATO is an invisible shield without any effort. What is the benefit of leaving NATO? Just because they don't sell you weapons??? They will not sell a screw when you left. What is this obsession of loneliness of AKP supporters. Turkey is already alone, they think Russia or China will be good partners or Arabs?

Some NATO countries are still best allies of Turkey and Russia is not an ally, it is a partner depending on occasion. Russia is still an traditional threat for Turkey, and will always be. Anti- NATO guys think Turkey achieved all these defence technology achievements alone..!

Not all are willingly putting embargo, why did your President sent Navy's TB2s instead of sending National ANKA's ? Why Turkey become so anti-democratic and corrupt? Some countries just don't like how Turkey is turning into an anti democratic middle-eastern one man autocracy. They don't trust the government, like what happened in Iran or Iraq back in 80s. Sometimes self-criticism is required. And also look how pro-active Turkey is recently.. jumping war to war.. If I were Europeans I would be concerned too.. They don't understand some actions and perceive as threat. Turkey is also responsible what happened in Syria and Libya as much as USA and Some EU countries. Blame West but also think about your faults as well.

 

[Turko]

Absolutely NATO is not dead nonetheless the organization is expanding with non-member new partner countries.

 

[Glass🚬]

Just some guy throwing a fit because some NATO countries, placed embargo on Turkey. In their mind Turkey never takes a misstep, never makes an error, it's all the fault of foreign countries.

Same nonsense ummetist neo ottoman anti western discussions over and over again.. Only short sighted people think about leaving NATO just for Today's problems. People with proper logic would understand this will only benefit enemies of Turkey. NATO is an invisible shield without any effort. What is the benefit of leaving NATO? Just because they don't sell you weapons??? They will not sell a screw when you left. What is this obsession of loneliness of AKP supporters. Turkey is already alone, they think Russia or China will be good partners or Arabs?

Some NATO countries are still best allies of Turkey and Russia is not an ally, it is a partner depending on occasion. Russia is still an traditional threat for Turkey, and will always be. Anti- NATO guys think Turkey achieved all these defence technology achievements alone..!

Not all are willingly putting embargo, why did your President sent Navy's TB2s instead of sending National ANKA's ? Why Turkey become so anti-democratic and corrupt? Some countries just don't like how Turkey is turning into an anti democratic middle-eastern one man autocracy. They don't trust the government, like what happened in Iran or Iraq back in 80s. Sometimes self-criticism is required. And also look how pro-active Turkey is recently.. jumping war to war.. If I were Europeans I would be concerned too.. They don't understand some actions and perceive as threat. Turkey is also responsible what happened in Syria and Libya as much as USA and Some EU countries. Blame West but also think about your faults as well.

Russia will never attack a NATO country,you know this.
Its not about ''frenemies'',being in NATO has more pro's then con's,so as long as being in NATO benefits the country,we stay in it.
The leaving NATO for the 0815 th time part is the real bs.
What are you,a superpower like China,Russia or the US?
Do you have a fully independent defence industry like the UK France Japan or South Korea?
A nuclear power?
Are you an economic power?
Your answer to all the questions is NO.so where does this trust and believe in leaving NATO come from?
Do explain and elaborate.

If NATO would nuke Istanbul in a hypothetical scenario, future responses from the very same people would be:"If We LeAvE NaTo -NaTo LeD aMerIca WiLl nOt JuSt nUkE Istanbul BuT aLso Ankara" smh.

 

[Tornadoss]

@Glass🚬 Could you please point out any benefit from exiting NATO today?