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Bogeyman 

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Turkiye's F-16 Viper Modernisation to be Divided by Two​


Turkiye’s F-16 Modernisation programme with the U.S. is currently on the discussion table. Two institutions will share the workload to upgrade 79 F-16 jet to Block 70 level. Turkiye holds two separate modernisation programmes for F-16 fleet. Turkish indigenous modernisation programme Özgür will be carried out at Turkish Aerospace (TUSAŞ) facilities. The second modernisation programme will be carried out with U.S. components. In a significant development, Turkish-U.S. relations reached a new milestone in February 2024. Congress approved Turkiye’s request to acquire two fleets of brand-new F-16 Viper jets and upgrade 79 F-16 aircraft with modernisation kits which will be obtained from the United States. The inclusion of the Northrop Grumman AN/APG-83 SABR AESA radar, also used in F-35A aircraft, in this modernisation programme is a testament to the technology being employed. According to the current Government to Government negotiations, Turkiye’s modernisation workload will be completed as in previous modernisation programmes. As a result of former upgrades, the Turkish Air Force has no F-16 Block 30. They have all been upgraded to the Block 40 level. Current negotiations foresee the division according to the blocks. The upgrade programme will not require sharing the workload on the same aircraft. In this sense, F-16 block 40 and 50s will be upgraded at the Turkish Defence Ministry’s Eskişehir 1st Air Maintenance Factory Directorate. The directory is also known by its former name, 1st Air Supply and Maintenance Centre Command, while F-16 Block 50+ aircraft will be upgraded at Turkish Aerospace (TUSAŞ) facilities.


According to this separation, 30 F-16 Block 50+ aircraft must be upgraded at TUSAŞ Ankara while remaining 49 F-16 must go to Eskişehir. Defence Security and Cooperation Agency (DSCA) presented a list to Congress in January 2024, which includes Turkiye’s F-16 modernisation request. The list indicates software upgrades of the Operational Flight Program (OFP) avionics with the Automatic Ground Collision Avoidance System (AGCAS) capability; hardware modifications to enable integration of the Multifunctional Information Distribution System Block Upgrade II (MIDS BU II), procured separately; hardware and software upgrades to include aircraft major modification; both classified and unclassified software and software support; integration and test support; support equipment; training and training equipment; spare and repair parts; publications and technical documentation; The estimated total cost is $259 million.

 

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Turkiye's F-16 Viper Modernisation to be Divided by Two​


Turkiye’s F-16 Modernisation programme with the U.S. is currently on the discussion table. Two institutions will share the workload to upgrade 79 F-16 jet to Block 70 level. Turkiye holds two separate modernisation programmes for F-16 fleet. Turkish indigenous modernisation programme Özgür will be carried out at Turkish Aerospace (TUSAŞ) facilities. The second modernisation programme will be carried out with U.S. components. In a significant development, Turkish-U.S. relations reached a new milestone in February 2024. Congress approved Turkiye’s request to acquire two fleets of brand-new F-16 Viper jets and upgrade 79 F-16 aircraft with modernisation kits which will be obtained from the United States. The inclusion of the Northrop Grumman AN/APG-83 SABR AESA radar, also used in F-35A aircraft, in this modernisation programme is a testament to the technology being employed. According to the current Government to Government negotiations, Turkiye’s modernisation workload will be completed as in previous modernisation programmes. As a result of former upgrades, the Turkish Air Force has no F-16 Block 30. They have all been upgraded to the Block 40 level. Current negotiations foresee the division according to the blocks. The upgrade programme will not require sharing the workload on the same aircraft. In this sense, F-16 block 40 and 50s will be upgraded at the Turkish Defence Ministry’s Eskişehir 1st Air Maintenance Factory Directorate. The directory is also known by its former name, 1st Air Supply and Maintenance Centre Command, while F-16 Block 50+ aircraft will be upgraded at Turkish Aerospace (TUSAŞ) facilities.


According to this separation, 30 F-16 Block 50+ aircraft must be upgraded at TUSAŞ Ankara while remaining 49 F-16 must go to Eskişehir. Defence Security and Cooperation Agency (DSCA) presented a list to Congress in January 2024, which includes Turkiye’s F-16 modernisation request. The list indicates software upgrades of the Operational Flight Program (OFP) avionics with the Automatic Ground Collision Avoidance System (AGCAS) capability; hardware modifications to enable integration of the Multifunctional Information Distribution System Block Upgrade II (MIDS BU II), procured separately; hardware and software upgrades to include aircraft major modification; both classified and unclassified software and software support; integration and test support; support equipment; training and training equipment; spare and repair parts; publications and technical documentation; The estimated total cost is $259 million.



Nice we will upgrade our own F16 fleet, they could give us more upgrade program... :D
 

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Nice we will upgrade our own F16 fleet, they could give us more upgrade program... :D
Not only that, I think dividing the upgrade between Ankara and Eskisehir is to ensure spreading out knowhow and familiarize the teams with F16, and the newer technology that'll be implemented.

This knowhow will get handy when we have to continue using our F-16, and perhaps integrate our own sensors in the future, if that becomes necessary.
 

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TAF gets to do something joint training with B1B Lancers

This is likely due to Iran and Israel. They want the bomber to be close. IMO we should not have allowed it.

If it flies somewhere else, which US bases will it fly to and land for operations ?
 

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If Americans use Incirlik Air Base then Iranians can eventually bomb it and shut it down... the thing that Erdogan didn't have the balls to do even for once no matter how much "Eeeeyyyy Amerika, sen kimsin yaaa?!" we heard over the years. :D
 

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If Americans use Incirlik Air Base then Iranians can eventually bomb it and shut it down... the thing that Erdogan didn't have the balls to do even for once no matter how much "Eeeeyyyy Amerika, sen kimsin yaaa?!" we heard over the years. :D
You're asking Iranians to bomb our land, wtf are you on about? Some of you lot really lose your damn minds just to hate anything Western.
 

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If Americans use Incirlik Air Base then Iranians can eventually bomb it and shut it down... the thing that Erdogan didn't have the balls to do even for once no matter how much "Eeeeyyyy Amerika, sen kimsin yaaa?!" we heard over the years. :D
They could protest and even declare war on us, but Iran bombing İncirlik is not bombing US, it’s bombing Turkey.

2 B-1s forward deployed from Spain for two weeks is not what US trusts to achieve firepower superiority.
 

boredaf

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I was just a stupid joke... but If it is "our land" why aren't the Americans kicked out of there?
Because we made an agreement with them lad, why is that so hard to understand? They aren't invading us, or taking that land from us with force. Like it or not, they are our allies right now, an ally that we not only have economic ties but also military ones, whether it is equipment or part purchases, like all important engines for example, or training together as apparently the case with these bomber coming here.
 

dBSPL

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Turkiye should strengthen its autonomy within NATO, but this should not be in progress as Russia's interests. Turkiye has shown that it will remain neutral on this issue and this actually more than enough. This tension is basically a familiar form of power game in the region that benefits both sides of the issue. Apart from that, the planned and routine activities of the Turkish armed forces within the NATO alliance are nobody's business.
 

what

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I dont see anything wrong with the Lancers either, we're NATO, we will train with other NATO countries and their equipment.
 

DBdev

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I dont see anything wrong with the Lancers either, we're NATO, we will train with other NATO countries and their equipment.
Timing and public announcement of nuclear capable bombers is no coincidence. America knew these attacks from Iran will happen since they even attacked American bases successfully. America knew Iran wouldn't mind attacking Israel or Türkiye if provoked. Since Iran also is a nuclear power, now.

Treacherous Americans are implying us as a target for Iran to attack instead of Israel on purpose. Iran several times said that she will attack with their unstoppable hypersonic missiles to bases in any and all nations that take part in an attack against Iran.

Not a single plane should be allowed to take flight until this crisis is over. They may take part in an attack against Iran by hiding their true mission.
 

Iskander

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Timing and public announcement of nuclear capable bombers is no coincidence. America knew these attacks from Iran will happen since they even attacked American bases successfully. America knew Iran wouldn't mind attacking Israel or Türkiye if provoked. Since Iran also is a nuclear power, now.

Treacherous Americans are implying us as a target for Iran to attack instead of Israel on purpose. Iran several times said that she will attack with their unstoppable hypersonic missiles to bases in any and all nations that take part in an attack against Iran.

Not a single plane should be allowed to take flight until this crisis is over. They may take part in an attack against Iran by hiding their true mission.
I am also of the opinion that Turkey should not allow other countries to use its territory and skies to attack Iran. Probably everyone here remembers 2003. Washington has long asked Ankara to allow American troops to attack Iraq from Turkish territory. He even offered several billion for agreement. Turkiye refused.
Sooner or later, these currently powerful countries will leave the region, and Türkiye and Iran will remain neighbors. And enmity will remain between them for centuries. Neither Turkey nor Iran needs this.
 

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Timing and public announcement of nuclear capable bombers is no coincidence. America knew these attacks from Iran will happen since they even attacked American bases successfully. America knew Iran wouldn't mind attacking Israel or Türkiye if provoked. Since Iran also is a nuclear power, now.

Treacherous Americans are implying us as a target for Iran to attack instead of Israel on purpose. Iran several times said that she will attack with their unstoppable hypersonic missiles to bases in any and all nations that take part in an attack against Iran.

Not a single plane should be allowed to take flight until this crisis is over. They may take part in an attack against Iran by hiding their true mission.
Do you really think that any traffic can go outbound or inbound of/in Incirlik without the permission of the Turkish Armed Forces?

The Incirlik Airbase, otherwise known as the 10th Tanker Base Command which is tied to the Air Forces Combat Command is a Turkish airbase and Turkiye has full authority and ownership over it including all its facilities. The commander of the 10th Tanker Base is Air Pilot General Kemal GULEC (a Turkish officer). It is a Turkish Armed Forces airbase under the command of the Turkish Air Forces and not an US airbase as some people with questionable intensions say.

In result of the Economy and Defence agreement signed between the US and Turkiye on 29 Mart, 1980 some of the facilities are opened for joint exploitation with the US within the prospects of joint security measures.

Implying that the US Air Forces can conduct independent missions from this airbase without the knowledge of the Turkish command is an offence over the intellect and professional qualities of the Turkish officers stationed there!

Despite such attempts and ambitions the Turkish officers in the airbase always stood their ground and never allowed misuse of the authority that was given to the US Air Force in the facilities they were allowed to use including in critical moments for Turkiye as the "15th July" FETO treachery.

Other than that let me tell you something regarding the politics of Iran in the region and especially when it comes to Turkiye. Iran doesn't need US or NATO forces to be stationed in Turkiye in order to launch a comparable attack over Turkish civilian and militaray targets to what we saw in Israel. The mere existence of Turkish military units in Iraq and Syria is enough for this.

Mark my words!

In 5 years from now, when our military operations in Zap, the North of Iraq are completed, after we besiege Gara, mark the terrorist camp as militarily non-effective and effectively start to exert influence over Sinjar (a strategic red line for Iran), whatever you saw in Israel awaits our military bases on foreign soil in Iraq and Syria with the exception that we don't posses any air defence system to effectively counter these ballistic missiles and the countries that intervened in the case of Israel with tens of fighter jets, air defence systems and intelligence will show ZERO determination to help us deal with that threat. And when the Republic of Turkiye is forced to respond to these attacks within article 51 of the UN chapter for self defence and somehow a militia commander or an IRGC advisor is present within the targeted area and hit, then you will see what I am talking about. Border cities with population of 2-3 million people are all potential targets for the Axis of Resistance proxy forces and then may God help the Turkish Nation...

When our bases in the north of Iraq were attacked by Iranian militias not long ago and caused disturb among our ranks we only saw a small, "funny" trailer of what can happen to ALL our military bases in Syria and Iraq.

While they bring to an end the still sustainable stay of our military forces in these areas just think of what Iran can do to both our military installations in the region and our mainland. In times where Iran's Mullah leadership is acting like a mad man do you know what will be the only consideration for Iran in defence to NOT attack directly Turkiye and its mainland? The Article 5 of NATO and the NATO/US forces stationed in Turkiye and the region.

While we, the people with healthy minds know that Turkiye is the unwanted child in the family of NATO and don't expect any meaningful collective response from NATO when in need, Iran doesn't think this way because even if the relationship between Turkiye and NATO is a love and hate (more hate in recent times) relationship, there is still an obligation by the member countries to defend Turkiye. Let's say that NATO will not defend Turkiye in a possible conflict, but what IF? This IF is enough to constraint Iran from annihilating economically strategic cities like Ankara and turn our defence industry centers in Golbasi and Kirikkale into ashes. This IF would constraint Iran from annihilating major Turkish cities with tightly positioned population of 2-3-4-5 million people with its arsenal of hundreds, if not thousands of ballistic missiles by the time. Well, but we would respond... Yes! We will respond, but this will not bring back the already lost thousands of lives and billions of dollars. This may sound like the worst case scenario, but it is our duty to calculate this possibility and make everything possible for preventing this catastrophe.

We are very close to a rearrangement of power balances in the Middle East that will last for long time and we are very late to this game. Due to this fact we should keep a very hard balance between Iranian and US influence. We can't move even an inch without the security that US is giving us with just even its presence in the region! Sharks like Iran would eat our forces and spit them like it never was a thing. We still don't have the armed forces, the technologic maturity and the economy so we stay on our feet and only ambition is not enough. We are a rising regional power and nothing more. We need security and conditions so we can operate and big part of these security and conditions are there because the US is here. If US decides that it would pack its sh*t and go right now the focus of Iran and its allies will be us because Turkiye is the second factor present on the field that is preventing the Iranian mega project aiming at undisputed control from Iran, trough Baghdad, Sinjar, Syria and the Mediterranean. With our operations in the north of Iraq and Syria we not only prevent the PKK expansion supported by the US, but also the Iranian expansion that continues with the passive support of Russia and China. This is why we should keep them busy with each other while we are building our new reality in which every strategic move in our backyard by major actors like Iran or the US is done with the support and rightful share of and for Turkiye or simply abandoned!

Every major actor like the US and Iran is trying to build its own reality and balance that will solely benefit them without taking in account Turkiye. We must break this bad habit by reinforce our own independence (especially when it comes to the Armed Forces and defence industry) and prevent any major change in the dynamics of the region that would prevent us react and adapt on time, making it impossible to take the right posture and fill any power vacuum that has to be filled if needed. If we manage to get at least limited backing by a major power like the US till 2040, if we manage to survive as a unified State under one flag, if we manage to survive attacks to our sovereignty like the one we saw in the 15th of July event which posed an existential threat to the State and manage to keep and improve our armed forces deterrence and presence wherever we have interests in, then I am sure our future will be big, but till then we should not take a bite bigger than what we can get trough our throats, otherwise we are going to be eliminated from the race for a respected and valuable position within the New World Order. No matter how much we hate them and they hate us, they need us and we still need them. After 2040 this will be debatable, but for now the reality can make us all cry... Especially the ballistic missile, mad regime reality that is just across the border, bordering Azerbaijan and exerting control over the Caspian Sea.

If anyone wants to quote me on my geopolitical analysis, please quote me here:

 

DBdev

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The base is a nuclear base. Control of the nukes belong to America, despite co-ownership lies. There are even barbed wire to keep Turks out, inside our own base.

Turkish officers' have a tradition of betraying our nation with coups almost every ten years. It is not as rosey and under control as you pretend. Turkish Armed Forces you say is in charge couldn't do anything for almost a day while they were refueling F-16s from tankers of Incirlik bombing Turkish Parliament. It is not an insult, it is the bitter reality. Turkish armed forces have a thousand years history of mutinies, betrayals and cowardice too. It is not just bravery and sacrifice.

They took out nuclear ballistic missiles without asking us during Cuba crisis. They took out gravity bombs for “maintenance”, who knows if nukes are even real at this point. America doesn't need to store nukes in Incirlik at all. So chances are what we have there are just fakes after they returned the "nukes" from maintenance.

So no we are not in charge of Incirlik. Not 100%.
 
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Kartal1

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The base is a nuclear base. Control of the nukes belong to America, despite co-ownership lies. There are even barbed wire to keep Turks out, inside our own base.

Turkish officers' have a tradition of betraying our nation with coups almost every ten years. It is not as rosey and under control as you pretend. Turkish Armed Forces you say is in charge couldn't do anything for almost a day while they were refueling F-16s from tankers of Incirlik bombing Turkish Parliament. It is not an insult, it is the bitter reality. Turkish armed forces have a thousand years history of mutinies, betrayals and cowardice too. It is not just bravery and sacrifice.

They took out nuclear ballistic missiles without asking us during Cuba crisis. They took out gravity bombs for “maintenance”, who knows if nukes are even real at this point. America doesn't need to store nukes in Incirlik at all. So chances are what we have there are just fakes after they returned the "nukes" from maintenance.

So no we are not in charge of Incirlik. Not 100%.
Who says that we were not in charge of Incirlik in the night of 15th of July? Show him to me so I can spit in his face.

After the terrorists managed to get 3 tankers in the air by deceiving the personnel in the base do you know what happened? They wanted to get another one in the air and at least 3 F-16s, but were prevented. After the leader of the terrorists in Incirlik, Bekir Ercan was confronted by the Turkish soldiers that were in the base he took refugee in the same facility that the US is using and you are saying it is inaccessible to the Turkish Armed Forces. The Turkish soldiers then entered the facility by force, despite the opposition of the US personnel stationed there and in result Bekir Ercan was taken out of this facility and brought to justice later.

On the question of operating F-16s under the control of these terrorists I can tell you one thing. Despite the numerous warnings of honorary Turkish officers, the political leadership in cooperation with the terrorists continued to infiltrate FETO elements within the Armed Forces! What is the end of this? All of the military and civilian administrative facilities under the control of the Fethullah Terrorist Organization were regained within 1 night, the FETO terrorist organization being absolutely shattered, Turkiye starting its own way towards independence.

Don't you try to put the blame on the honorary Turkish officers by comparing them with the traitors and terrorists who wore the uniform of the Turkish Armed Forces in that night ever again without making a distinction! I warn you!

Another thing that I see obliged to say is that you are comparing apples to oranges. You are comparing a terrorist coup attempt with the aim of changing the regime in Turkiye which was made possible due to a 60 years process to a possible independent US military operation out of a sovereign country enabling the possible use of nuclear weapons against another sovereign country. Do you realize what would be the complications and consequences if such a thing happens? Do you even realize what kind of bullshit you are talking about? This is not Call of Duty!

Yes, Turkiye has its problems, but your comments are absolutely immature and bordering madness. Transferring nuclear weapons without the knowledge of the Turkish Armed Forces in or out of Turkiye is not possible. Taking off of nuclear weapons loaded US bombers from Incirlik so they attack another country without the green light of Turkiye is also not possible. This is not a movie! Nuclear weapons are not fireworks or candies and the needed mechanism for the control over such strategic assets is established between the US and Turkiye within certain boundaries which are reinforcing the trust between the two countries prioritizing maximum safety. In the moment when the established protocols are violated Turkiye will take the needed measures to ensure its national security and put an end to the US exploitation of the Incirlik airbase!

Turkiye is not the playground of nobody and if somebody tries to play, we will make him a belly dancer as we previously showed! Who do you think Turkiye is? The years of using Turkiye as a toy are over!
 

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Who says that we were not in charge of Incirlik in the night of 15th of July? Show him to me so I can spit in his face.

After the terrorists managed to get 3 tankers in the air by deceiving the personnel in the base do you know what happened? They wanted to get another one in the air and at least 3 F-16s, but were prevented. After the leader of the terrorists in Incirlik, Bekir Ercan was confronted by the Turkish soldiers that were in the base he took refugee in the same facility that the US is using and you are saying it is inaccessible to the Turkish Armed Forces. The Turkish soldiers then entered the facility by force, despite the opposition of the US personnel stationed there and in result Bekir Ercan was taken out of this facility and brought to justice later.

On the question of operating F-16s under the control of these terrorists I can tell you one thing. Despite the numerous warnings of honorary Turkish officers, the political leadership in cooperation with the terrorists continued to infiltrate FETO elements within the Armed Forces! What is the end of this? All of the military and civilian administrative facilities under the control of the Fethullah Terrorist Organization were regained within 1 night, the FETO terrorist organization being absolutely shattered, Turkiye starting its own way towards independence.

Don't you try to put the blame on the honorary Turkish officers by comparing them with the traitors and terrorists who wore the uniform of the Turkish Armed Forces in that night ever again without making a distinction! I warn you!

Another thing that I see obliged to say is that you are comparing apples to oranges. You are comparing a terrorist coup attempt with the aim of changing the regime in Turkiye which was made possible due to a 60 years process to a possible independent US military operation out of a sovereign country enabling the possible use of nuclear weapons against another sovereign country. Do you realize what would be the complications and consequences if such a thing happens? Do you even realize what kind of bullshit you are talking about? This is not Call of Duty!

Yes, Turkiye has its problems, but your comments are absolutely immature and bordering madness. Transferring nuclear weapons without the knowledge of the Turkish Armed Forces in or out of Turkiye is not possible. Taking off of nuclear weapons loaded US bombers from Incirlik so they attack another country without the green light of Turkiye is also not possible. This is not a movie! Nuclear weapons are not fireworks or candies and the needed mechanism for the control over such strategic assets is established between the US and Turkiye within certain boundaries which are reinforcing the trust between the two countries prioritizing maximum safety. In the moment when the established protocols are violated Turkiye will take the needed measures to ensure its national security and put an end to the US exploitation of the Incirlik airbase!

Turkiye is not the playground of nobody and if somebody tries to play, we will make him a belly dancer as we previously showed! Who do you think Turkiye is? The years of using Turkiye as a toy are over!
Beautifully said, Brother. Next time, no warning. Just perma ban everyone who talks like a Traitor. Mercy is weakness.
 
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Kartal1

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Beautifully said, Brother. Next time no warning, just perma ban everyone who talks like a Traitor. Mercy is weakness.
I don't accuse anyone in treachery. I am just giving a friendly warning regarding the clear distinction between the Turkish soldier and a terrorist wearing the Turkish camouflage pattern infiltrated into the institution. This usage of words may have came in a result of a frustration and a state of mind. I don't know. We may agree or disagree on the other points, but this warning is important! This is also not a personal warning, but rather warning to every reader.

Another point I want to make clear is that I am a moderator and not a perma ban machine. Nobody should feel threatened to defend his point of view in front of me or oppose my opinion on any matter as long as the arguments presented are within the lines of the forum rules. I promise that I won't abuse my positions in chase for personal vendettas. This is below my level and I think I proved this many times already.

Have fun!
 
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