TR Turkish Air Forces|News & Discussion

[GoatsMilk]

There is a big difference between your nationalists and our nationalists.
Usually a nationalist in the Western world is considered a Neo-Nazi or White Supremacist,dont know how they are in your country.
A Turkish nationalist is a citizen of the Turkish Republic who loves the country and does almost everything for it.
We dont kill each other,we protect each other,no matter the belief be it political,religious or non-religious.
A good friend of mine a Kurd from Urfa(town) is the leader of the MHP(religious Turkish nationalists) branch in Düsseldorf(Germany).
Another friend is a high ranked member of the AKP party in my hometown in Türkiye.
My sparring partner(muayThai) is a member of the CHP party,he is Laz.
They are all nationalists like myself.
So,it doesnt matter if you are Kurdish,Laz,Zaza,Circaussian,Gypsy,Armenian,Assyrian etc you can be a nationalist.
We created this forum for the love we have for our country with everyone in it.
We do not discriminate,we treat every member equally,nobody is above the other.
See the difference?

Btw,i do not support any political party,only the country.

well said.

The afif guy talks too much about things he knows little about. This response is a good way to educate him.

 

[Afif]

There is a big difference between your nationalists and our nationalists.
Usually a nationalist in the Western world is considered a Neo-Nazi or White Supremacist,dont know how they are in your country.
A Turkish nationalist is a citizen of the Turkish Republic who loves the country and does almost everything for it.
We dont kill each other,we protect each other,no matter the belief be it political,religious or non-religious.
A good friend of mine a Kurd from Urfa(town) is the leader of the MHP(religious Turkish nationalists) branch in Düsseldorf(Germany).
Another friend is a high ranked member of the AKP party in my hometown in Türkiye.
My sparring partner(muayThai) is a member of the CHP party,he is Laz.
They are all nationalists like myself.
So,it doesnt matter if you are Kurdish,Laz,Zaza,Circaussian,Gypsy,Armenian,Assyrian etc you can be a nationalist.
We created this forum for the love we have for our country with everyone in it.
We do not discriminate,we treat every member equally,nobody is above the other.
See the difference?

Btw,i do not support any political party,only the country.

Good for you and turkish people! But I have to say in this case, turkey is probably unique and rare. Especially, when you look at europe, north America, russia, india and china and what happening with the so called 'natonalists' in these countries nowadays. anyway, thank you for englightening me more about turkeys socio cultural environment.

well said.

The afif guy talks too much about things he knows little about. This response is a good way to educate him.

or unfortunately, probably for linguistic and cultural confusion you assume things from my post that i didnt said or i didnt claimed. there are multiple example of that..

 

[TR_123456]

well said.

The afif guy talks too much about things he knows little about. This response is a good way to educate him.

Yes but we cant blame him for not knowing,we can blame ourselves for not explaining.

 

[Radonsider]

Yes but we cant blame him for not knowing,we can blame ourselves for not explaining.

Great take, we should be supportive instead of aggressive

 

[dBSPL]

Great take, we should be supportive instead of aggressive

He was the aggressive one. Despite this, he received a well-meaning counter response that anyone cannot find in any other forum, and many people graciously underlined the weak points of his knowledge.

 

[Fuzuli NL]

Ah! Of course, I am the bad guy.
I don't mind though! Everybody thinks other one's argument is weak and insufficient! And of course, this is totally okay.
you may find my argument aggressive, However, i can tell you at least there is no personal name calling in my post! but you, instead of just saying my assumptions or understanding is incorrect or false, almost wrote a little essay 'how i am that and that and how my stupidity is etc etc'.
and in the end, you finished with ( an almost a threat ) what you gonna do to me if i repost anything. I think this was unnecessury.
but hey, personally i dont hold anything against you. have a good day.

I think it's just a matter of misunderstanding or wrong wording.
Some of us Turks don't like it when people assume things about us without knowing. You could formulate your queries a little better maybe.
Another note if you don't mind: Turkey, Türkiye, Turk should be written with the first letter in upper case. Any nation or nationality should be written in that manner in the English language, otherwise it maybe taken as an insult.
Cheers!

 

[UkroTurk]

The Ozgur modernisation should gain momentum immediately in line with this and block 40 planes

Really could you please explain, What Özgür modernization is?

Is it completed modernization or future project?

İf we have Özgür modernization capacity why should we buy modernization kits from USA?

What's wrong with the Özgür?

Again Türkiye is able to upgrade F-16 , buying old F-16s and upgrading them sounds more reasonable.

I would gather 200 old F-16s from the world and upgrade it until MMU is ready. But the question is where to buy


Venezuelan Air Force has 20 f-16 and they are under sanctions. They could sell .

Pakistan would sell if US didn't approve upgrade package.

India tells U.S. it is concerned about package for Pakistan F-16 jets

India is concerned about a U.S. decision to provide a sustenance package for Pakistan's fleet of F-16 fighter aircraft, the Indian defence minister told his U.S. counterpart on Wednesday.

www.reuters.com

Damn US even approve Pakistan's F-16 upgrade program while refusing Türkiye.

 

[Afif]

Really could you please explain, What Özgür modernization is?

Is it completed modernization or future project?

İf we have Özgür modernization capacity why should we buy modernization kits from USA?

What's wrong with the Özgür?

Again Türkiye is able to upgrade F-16 , buying old F-16s and upgrading them sounds more reasonable.

I would gather 200 old F-16s from the world and upgrade it until MMU is ready.

I think the reason behind buying 80 modernization kit from usa despite having the capacity of ozgur mordenization is has to do with relatively newer 80 f16 block 50s source codes. Unlike other f16 block 30 and 40's source codes TÜRKIYE doesn't have them.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...QtwJ6BAgREAE&usg=AOvVaw3itesv6_gu2y_QiQLyS5L_
and also, these block 50s are younger than 30 years. So any kind of indigenous upgrade now will require us permission for these block 50s. @Yasar

 

[Radonsider]

Really could you please explain, What Özgür modernization is?

Is it completed modernization or future project?

İf we have Özgür modernization capacity why should we buy modernization kits from USA?

What's wrong with the Özgür?

Again Türkiye is able to upgrade F-16 , buying old F-16s and upgrading them sounds more reasonable.

I would gather 200 old F-16s from the world and upgrade it until MMU is ready. But the question is where to buy

India tells U.S. it is concerned about package for Pakistan F-16 jets

India is concerned about a U.S. decision to provide a sustenance package for Pakistan's fleet of F-16 fighter aircraft, the Indian defence minister told his U.S. counterpart on Wednesday.

www.reuters.com

Damn US even approve Pakistan's F-16 upgrade program while refusing Türkiye.

Well it is an ongoing project, it includes lots of things.

Even though it is better than Block 70, we still need block 70 upgrade because we cannot modernise Block 50/50+,
iirc later this decade we would gain rights for modernisation of block 40s, so by this plan all of our F-16 fleet will be modernised, Block 30/40s being Özgür and 50/50+ being Block 70, if Eurofighter purchase happens, we will also have around 20 Eurofighter Özgür and 40-60 Tranche-3A/4 (per DefenceTurkey)

 

[Tsenal]

Considering how long it took for Özgün project to enter serial production phase, how long would it take to develop an Özgür based modernization package for Typhoon?

Does Tranche 1 have modern EW/ED capabilities to meet TuAF requirements?

 

[Radonsider]

Considering how long it took for Özgün project to enter serial production phase, how long would it take to develop an Özgür based modernization package for Typhoon?

Does Tranche 1 have modern EW/ED capabilities to meet TuAF requirements?

Özgür took long because we had to develop from scratch without US help, now we have the necessary tech and have UK help

 

[dBSPL]

Ah! Of course, I am the bad guy.
I don't mind though! Everybody thinks other one's argument is weak and insufficient! And of course, this is totally okay.
you may find my argument aggressive, However, i can tell you at least there is no personal name calling in my post! but you, instead of just saying my thoughts or understanding is incorrect or false, wrote 'how i am that and that and how my stupidity is etc etc'.
and in the end, you finished with ( an almost a like threat ) what you gonna do if i repost anything. I think this was unnecessury.
but hey, personally i dont hold anything against you. have a good day.

Stop playing the victim by trying to cover up baseless accusations against us, and reflecting something I didn't write against you as if I wrote it.

Show me another national security and defense forum where a member whose ideology, values and personality you disrespect and accuse of being in a superiority complex just because he's noticed you, will still answer you in such or more low tone, I'll join there immediately.
I've only responded once to your repeated disrespects, and you just can't admit it. I have given you the necessary notice, it is up to you to consider or not. From now on I will only use the reporting function.

We have a very basic, simple expectation from you. In a topic related to the air force news, or in an interstate cooperation thread, or in a conflict thread in a very unrelated region; refrain from making rote and racist definitions to a certain world of thought, a certain community to the extent that it takes matters completely out of context..

This self-confidence you show on subjects that you do not have an slightest idea about also affects the ideas about you. In other words, this just a kindly reminding that you need to pay attention to this in terms of both your own impression and healthy functioning of the forum. You don't need to see the person who noticed you about this as your enemy. And my proposal is still valid, we can talk about what nationalism is, its historical and principle foundations, whenever you want, under an appropriate thread.

This is the last message I write directly to you in public. I assume you now understand what I mean. If you still do not understand, you can contact via private message.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Really could you please explain, What Özgür modernization is?

Is it completed modernization or future project?

İf we have Özgür modernization capacity why should we buy modernization kits from USA?

What's wrong with the Özgür?

Özgür project, as the name suggests is there to turn our F16s totally free from US control with respect to avionics and weapons. It also includes having our flight control computer installed in the planes. This way plane becomes liberated.

It has been completed apart from the Aesa radar Aselsan has been developing. Aselsan had promised early last year that before the end of 2021, it would be in the air attached to a plane. But we have not heard about this happening since.
Since the program was ready to implement, all block-30 planes that have gone through structural upgrades are also being upgraded to Özgür status in terms of their avionics and cockpit electronics. All they need are the Aselsan’s new Aesa radar.

Although there is no concrete proof or document that can verify this, due to the FMS (Foreign Military Sales) conditions with which our ~270 f16s were purchased , they can not be touched for 30 years without the manufacturer’s consent. All block-30 planes are now out of this 30 year period. Some of the block-40 planes are also out of this time limit. Infact all block-40 planes will be out of this time limit by end of 2024. These are the planes we can apply Ozgur modernisation if above supposition is correct.
We have 79 block-50 planes which will be 30 years old by the end of 2029. We need to buy Kits for them from the manufacturer.

When we purchased f16’s under Peace Onyx 1, 2 and 3, we had 240 f16s and 54 Terminator 2020 phantoms. That is nearly a 300 plane inventory. Over the years we have lost many of the f16s and even though we bought 30 new block-50+ planes (now 29 left) there are only 237 or 238 of them left in the inventory. Operational f4s must be around 20. But they should have been retired at least 2 years ago.
Come 2028-29 these numbers can be even lower. So we need new planes to make up the numbers even if we turn all our f16s in to Özgür status.

The only thing wrong about this project is the fact that it is taking too long to implement and it’s Aesa radar.

 

[Afif]

Özgür project, as the name suggests is there to turn our F16s totally free from US control with respect to avionics and weapons. It also includes having our flight control computer installed in the planes. This way plane becomes liberated.

It has been completed apart from the Aesa radar Aselsan has been developing. Aselsan had promised early last year that before the end of 2021, it would be in the air attached to a plane. But we have not heard about this happening since.
Since the program was ready to implement, all block-30 planes that have gone through structural upgrades are also being upgraded to Özgür status in terms of their avionics and cockpit electronics. All they need are the Aselsan’s new Aesa radar.

Although there is no concrete proof or document that can verify this, due to the FMS (Foreign Military Sales) conditions with which our ~270 f16s were purchased , they can not be touched for 30 years without the manufacturer’s consent. All block-30 planes are now out of this 30 year period. Some of the block-40 planes are also out of this time limit. Infact all block-40 planes will be out of this time limit by end of 2024. These are the planes we can apply Ozgur modernisation if above supposition is correct.
We have 79 block-50 planes which will be 30 years old by the end of 2029. We need to buy Kits for them from the manufacturer.

When we purchased f16’s under Peace Onyx 1, 2 and 3, we had 240 f16s and 54 Terminator 2020 phantoms. That is nearly a 300 plane inventory. Over the years we have lost many of the f16s and even though we bought 30 new block-50+ planes (now 29 left) there are only 237 or 238 of them left in the inventory. Operational f4s must be around 20. But they should have been retired at least 2 years ago.
Come 2028-29 these numbers can be even lower. So we need new planes to make up the numbers even if we turn all our f16s in to Özgür status.

The only thing wrong about this project is the fact that it is taking too long to implement and it’s Aesa radar.

View attachment 48800

I guess airborne AESA FCR more difficult to develop than a land based or naval AESA FCR, Given it needs extensive modification and miniaturization.

 

[Baryshx]

Özgür project, as the name suggests is there to turn our F16s totally free from US control with respect to avionics and weapons. It also includes having our flight control computer installed in the planes. This way plane becomes liberated.

It has been completed apart from the Aesa radar Aselsan has been developing. Aselsan had promised early last year that before the end of 2021, it would be in the air attached to a plane. But we have not heard about this happening since.
Since the program was ready to implement, all block-30 planes that have gone through structural upgrades are also being upgraded to Özgür status in terms of their avionics and cockpit electronics. All they need are the Aselsan’s new Aesa radar.

Although there is no concrete proof or document that can verify this, due to the FMS (Foreign Military Sales) conditions with which our ~270 f16s were purchased , they can not be touched for 30 years without the manufacturer’s consent. All block-30 planes are now out of this 30 year period. Some of the block-40 planes are also out of this time limit. Infact all block-40 planes will be out of this time limit by end of 2024. These are the planes we can apply Ozgur modernisation if above supposition is correct.
We have 79 block-50 planes which will be 30 years old by the end of 2029. We need to buy Kits for them from the manufacturer.

When we purchased f16’s under Peace Onyx 1, 2 and 3, we had 240 f16s and 54 Terminator 2020 phantoms. That is nearly a 300 plane inventory. Over the years we have lost many of the f16s and even though we bought 30 new block-50+ planes (now 29 left) there are only 237 or 238 of them left in the inventory. Operational f4s must be around 20. But they should have been retired at least 2 years ago.
Come 2028-29 these numbers can be even lower. So we need new planes to make up the numbers even if we turn all our f16s in to Özgür status.

The only thing wrong about this project is the fact that it is taking too long to implement and it’s Aesa radar.

View attachment 48800

Aselsan said months ago that it had delivered the Aesa radar. I shared it in the video, if there is a problem or delay, it is the responsibility of Tusaş and the test team. Or the tests continue in their normal course, this is the procedure. This is also a long process.

 

[dBSPL]

Only 29 of the 237 F-16s have CFTs. Probably because of the Turkish air force has a strong tanker fleet, this was not seen as a problem in the first place, but both policy changes such as Libya etc that expand the armed force's security concept, as well as the obsolescence of the existing tanker fleet and the delays in its renewal have made this deficiency more visible. I think the request document sent for 40 new F-16 orders is related to this. In other words, there is an urgent need for at least 40 aircraft (enough to form 2 squadrons) with a relatively high internal fuel capacity, that is, with a slightly better combat radius.

Another issue is related to NATO's security concept. The Turkish Armed Forces is the only force that can sustain NATO's eastern flank. These days when tactical nuclear engagements are talked about and the risks are increasing uncontrollably; Such a NATO engagement is almost impossible without Turkish air force support, especially on the south-eastern line. The irresponsible activities of lobbyists inside the US are about to reach the potential to pose a deadly risk to NATO. The UK's EF proposal should also be evaluated from this perspective.

EDIT:
LOL

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580910040734609414

 

[dBSPL]

I think TAF needs at least 40 additional, preferably 60/80 up-to-date aircraft until MMU ready. If we take the F-35 planning as a reference, we can also think that this need is over 100 by the mid of the 2030s.

Also, modernization kit requested for 80 aircraft in the current situation is not the final figure, it is about maintaining the tactical and strategic effectiveness of the remaining fleet starting from block-40s that already stalled too long.

There is a Özgür modernization target for 36 Block-30TM. Having a national(only user) avionics, radar suit and weaponary will provide these aircraft with B-70 level deterrence.

The remaining aircrafts are: 29 Block-50+, 71 blocks 50M and 102 Block-40M. Block-40 and Block-50s have been subjected to the CCIP modernization plan and have actually reached 50+ level capabilities. In short, we have a total of 200 Block 50+ level F16s, 29 of which are CFT. 80 of these will be modernized in the first place if possible, and then probably at least 60 more.

The FOC target for the MMU B1 is around 2035, and its fleet will not reach proper size until 2035-2040. To expand the size of the air force fleet in this average 15-year period, to maintain the effectiveness of the their existing platforms; and while all these investments continue, it must have a resource planning that does not harm the ultimate goal of the Air Force, which has contain complete independence in the next generation.

For an air force of TAF scale, this is actually not a big deal. However, the most compelling part of the issue is related to geopolitical conditions and practices created by interest conflicts. Turkish air force combatant fleet logistics is completely dependent on the USA and is based on this country' platforms. The same USA is now the main actor threatening Turkish interests.

If Turkiye had not reject on its Eurofighter partnership offer in the early 2000s (we acted in the direction of JSF), its political field of action could have been much wider today. And what's more, today, if the current conditions and regional global risks were not there, our range of action would be even narrower than it is now. As a result, while regional/global risks have created an opportunity gap in our favor, we should not miss this opportunity, again.

 

[Ripley]

Another issue is related to NATO's security concept. The Turkish Armed Forces is the only force that can sustain NATO's eastern flank. These days when tactical nuclear engagements are talked about and the risks are increasing uncontrollably; Such a NATO engagement is almost impossible without Turkish air force support, especially on the south-eastern line. The irresponsible activities of lobbyists inside the US are about to reach the potential to pose a deadly risk to NATO. The UK's EF proposal should also be evaluated from this perspective.

Awesomeness!
Thank you for confirming and further elaborating on a crude post of mine from the past in more detail and doing it with an elegant manner too

because any policy maker, any scholar of political science and history on this planet called earth knows very well that this geography can NOT be handled in any way W.I.T.H.O.U.T. Turkey. I am sorry Turkey haters all around the world, but it’s a fact. Suck it up. Period

And while on it, here’s my two cents on recent developments:
Get!
Get anything you set yours eyes on while you can lay your hands on. Get them before TuAF inventory begins to heavily deteriorate and become desperate until new or updated aircraft join the front line squadrons.
Fill the gaps until TFX becomes operational.
And please, if Tempest was even put on the table don’t pass it and IF ever accepted, do not make it a 2nd F35!

 

[MADDOG]

Super Mushshak's are now at TAI. Flight activities ongoing.

 

[Saithan]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580884120410165248