TR Turkish Air Forces|News & Discussion

Shtr

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Maybe it is already obvious but I would like to sum up my thoughts about F35.

It is clear that our F35 jets are still in hangars. I understand this since US charging some costs for it. This can be interpreted that this action is deliberately requested from our side. I still think that Turkiye's side is still hopeful regarding getting these F35s. At some points they will definitely give back Turkiye.

There was a recent visit from Lockheed in Ankara regarding producing F16s in Turkey since their current capacity is fully filled by F35s.

I still believe that US will not provide any component for high tech products but I believe in they will continue to sell.

I am hopeful about situation.
 

Heartbang

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Turkish Ministery of National Defence:

"Turkish and US defense ministries delegations held the second round of F35 consultations, the first of which was held in Ankara, on January 18, 2023, in Washington.

The delegations agreed on the continuation of consultations.

The next meeting is planned to be held in Ankara in the spring of 2023"

This delegation agreed on the issues in the F16 and sent joint resolution to the congress. Now we also learn that similar talks have been made for the F35 and talks will continue for F35.

Empty talks for me.
Emptier than a puff of fart. Theyll stall their heart out until the election concludes.
 

boredaf

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Getting F-35s is tying ourselves down to US for another decade or two, at least, and even the best stealth jet available right now isn't worth that imo.

And it's not just because of the way US usually use the weapons like a leash around our necks either. It is because US is 1 or 2 elections away from turning into an Evangelical theocracy. They have been that way for years now and if Trump presidency proved anything it is that they are much closer and much more susceptible than anyone imagined.

Trusting US with your defense right now is like building your own gallows and weaving your own rope while waiting for the hangman to arrive.
 

Kedikesenfare

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@all

You know what I don't comprehend?

How is TAI going to participate in our F16 order if CAATSA sanctions against SSB are still in force?


__________________


The Secretary of State, in consultation with the Secretary of Treasury, has selected the following sanctions from CAATSA Section 235, as implemented by Executive Order (E.O.) 13849, to impose on SSB:


  • a prohibition on granting specific U.S. export licenses and authorizations for any goods or technology transferred to SSB (Section 235(a)(2));
  • a prohibition on loans or credits by U.S. financial institutions to SSB totaling more than $10 million in any 12-month period (Section 235(a)(3));
  • a ban on U.S. Export-Import Bank assistance for exports to SSB (Section 235(a)(1));
  • a requirement for the United States to oppose loans benefitting SSB by international financial institutions (Section 235(a)(4)); and
  • imposition of full blocking sanctions and visa restrictions (Section 235(a)(7), (8), (9), (11), and (12)) on Dr. Ismail Demir, president of SSB; Faruk Yigit, SSB’s vice president; Serhat Gencoglu, Head of SSB’s Department of Air Defense and Space; and Mustafa Alper Deniz, Program Manager for SSB’s Regional Air Defense Systems Directorate.
Source: https://2017-2021.state.gov/caatsa-...h-presidency-of-defense-industries/index.html
 

moz68k

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Hello. I have a question about Turkish Air Force pilot training. I would like to know if I am aware of the stages of their training process and the aircraft used for it.

First of all, in the case of the Korean Air Force, there are three major training courses.
View attachment 52684
(There are some errors in the image, but we need to change from T-103 to KT-100 in the first step.)

Is the Turkish Air Force similar to this process? And are the aircraft used in each stage in the order of SF-260D, KT-1T, and T-38M?
I roughly translated this page from the TurAF's website (last updated March 2022).

The Turkish Air Force trains its pilots by first providing four years of academic education at the Air Force Academy which includes practice flight training in T-41D aircraft, in addition to glider and parachute training. After graduation, they are subjected to Initial Flight Training in SF-260D aircraft in the inventory of the 2nd Main Jet Base Training Center Command in Çiğli, İzmir, followed by Basic Jet Training in KT-1T aircraft, and finally Advanced Jet Training in T38A Jet aircraft.

Pilot candidates who successfully complete Basic Jet Training are subjected to Advanced Helicopter and Advanced Transportation Pilot Training in order to meet the transportation and helicopter pilot requirement of the Air Force Command.

After successfully completing their pilot training and wearing their pilot badges, the young eagles arrive at the 193rd "Öncel" Squadron of the Balıkesir 9th Main Jet Base Command to receive F-16 Full Combat Readiness Training, which is the final stage to become a combat F-16 pilot, and combat pilots who successfully complete the training are assigned to F-16 squadrons within the Turkish Air Force.

TurAF inventory also includes 52 PAC MFI-17 Super Mushshaks, which are probably also used for practice.
 
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Ravenman

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Trump was always pro-Turkey. He greenlighted our Syrian operations and powned the YPG in the White House by saying that "the Kurds didnt help America during WW II, why would we help them?".

He also supported Turkey at live television during a press conference where he outlashed Mike Pompeo and said that the US lost thousands of jobs because of the F35/S400 row and that Turkey was right because the US didnt sell them Patriots.

If Trump wins, we will definitively get the F35, especially in this situation with NATO-Russia.
 

Heartbang

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Trump was always pro-Turkey. He greenlighted our Syrian operations and powned the YPG in the White House by saying that "the Kurds didnt help America during WW II, why would we help them?".

He also supported Turkey at live television during a press conference where he outlashed Mike Pompeo and said that the US lost thousands of jobs because of the F35/S400 row and that Turkey was right because the US didnt sell them Patriots.

If Trump wins, we will definitively get the F35, especially in this situation with NATO-Russia.
He also allowed the establishment of the East-Med forum. He was very enthusiastic about the East-Med pipeline.
 

Hasanrize

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@all

You know what I don't comprehend?

How is TAI going to participate in our F16 order if CAATSA sanctions against SSB are still in force?


__________________


The Secretary of State, in consultation with the Secretary of Treasury, has selected the following sanctions from CAATSA Section 235, as implemented by Executive Order (E.O.) 13849, to impose on SSB:


  • a prohibition on granting specific U.S. export licenses and authorizations for any goods or technology transferred to SSB (Section 235(a)(2));
  • a prohibition on loans or credits by U.S. financial institutions to SSB totaling more than $10 million in any 12-month period (Section 235(a)(3));
  • a ban on U.S. Export-Import Bank assistance for exports to SSB (Section 235(a)(1));
  • a requirement for the United States to oppose loans benefitting SSB by international financial institutions (Section 235(a)(4)); and
  • imposition of full blocking sanctions and visa restrictions (Section 235(a)(7), (8), (9), (11), and (12)) on Dr. Ismail Demir, president of SSB; Faruk Yigit, SSB’s vice president; Serhat Gencoglu, Head of SSB’s Department of Air Defense and Space; and Mustafa Alper Deniz, Program Manager for SSB’s Regional Air Defense Systems Directorate.
Source: https://2017-2021.state.gov/caatsa-...h-presidency-of-defense-industries/index.html
It is on SSB, not on TUSAŞ (which is not part of SSB). TUSAŞ still produces parts for Boeing, for example.
 

I_Love_F16

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D4700D7C-06AE-450E-824E-D6F9E08D0FE9.jpeg


SSB detains 45.45% of TAI.
 

Tsenal

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Turkey exploring massive UK arms deal involving planes, ships and tank engines​



Multibillion-dollar deal for Eurofighter jets, transport planes, frigates and tank engines is being discussed as Turkey faces procurement hurdles in the US

Turkey has held talks with the United Kingdom over the possible sale of a large package of weapons, including fighter jets, transport planes, engines and frigates, three separate sources familiar with the discussions told Middle East Eye.

Turkish defence minister Hulusi Akar visited London on Sunday, meeting his British counterpart, Ben Wallace.

The sources said that during their meeting Akar and Wallace explored the possibility of Ankara purchasing Eurofighter jets, C-130J transport planes and Type 23 frigates, as well as engines for Turkey’s outdated M60 battle tanks. The estimated value of such a deal is well over $10bn, according to the sources.

“We are evaluating our options on these platforms but we aren’t in the final stages of negotiations,” said one of the Turkish sources, who spoke to MEE on the condition of anonymity because they are not authorised to speak to the media.

Obstacles in Washington​

The move comes as Ankara faces difficulties acquiring 40 new F-16 aircraft and 79 modernisation kits for its existing F-16 fleet because of opposition in the US Congress.

Many US lawmakers, including Senator Bob Menendez, who chairs the US Senate Committee on Foreign Relations, have declared that they would oppose such a move over Ankara’s alleged aggression against its allies and neighbours, including Greece.

US officials have told their Turkish counterparts that dropping the conditions Turkey has set for Sweden to become a Nato member will help remove opposition to the fighter aircraft deal in Congress.

Turkey has one of the largest F-16 fleets in the region, but the planes are reaching the end of their lifespan.

Ankara finds itself with an unexpected conundrum, since it designed its medium-term air defence needs based on the acquisition of fifth-generation F-35 jets. The US government officially kicked Turkey out of the F-35 programme in 2019 over the latter’s purchase of Russian-made S-400 air defence systems.

Several Turkish officials told MEE in June that they might be interested in buying Eurofighter Typhoon warplanes from the UK if Turkey's F-16 purchase request to the US did not progress. Eurofighter Typhoons are produced by a consortium of companies from the UK, Germany, Italy and Spain.

One industry insider told MEE this week that Turkey was looking to purchase two squadrons of Eurofighters, amounting to between 24 to 48 units.

A second source, who also spoke on condition of anonymity, said Ankara’s Eurofighter acquisition wouldn’t be an easy process, since it would require a lot of technical adjustments and training within the Turkish Armed Forces.

The source added that the Turkish military was becoming increasingly familiar with the platform, since Qatar is also believed to have sent some of its Eurofighter jets to Turkey under a bilateral deal that allows Doha to deploy its air force in Turkey.

Turkey has its own nationally designed and produced fighter jet programmes, such as TFX and Hurjet, but they aren’t battle proven and their date of delivery may change depending on the production line. This is why the Turkish military is looking for temporary solutions.

Akar and Wallace also discussed the possible procurement of C-130J military transport planes, according to the sources. The UK’s Defence Equipment Sales Authority (Desa) put its C-130J transport planes on sale in October. In its brochure, Desa added that 14 C-130J tactical aircraft would be made available for acquisition as they come out of service between 2023 and 2025.

The first source told MEE that C-130J, the most advanced version of the transport plane, would be a good addition to Turkey’s inventory, which is stretched because of Ankara’s missions to Libya.

“We already have C-130s in our inventory, it is an aircraft we already know well,” the Turkish source said. “We have necessary know-how to maintain and modernise them." The source added that Ankara has made heavy use of its fleet of A400Ms in Libya, which was building pressure on the aircraft.

UK-Turkey defence collaboration​

The two defence ministers are also looking for ways to find a British supplier to modernise Turkey's M60 tanks. The sources said Ankara’s own tank project, Altay, had been facing engine procurement issues and was running very late. “The military would like to maintain its battle readiness,” the first source added.

Middle East Eye has written to the British Ministry of Defence asking for comment. MEE reported on Thursday that the UK is also negotiating a deal to sell at least three Type 23 frigates to Turkey, which were slated for sale by the UK's defence ministry for 2023.

It isn't clear whether Ankara would be able to make a final decision on these potential purchases before presidential elections later this year. A new government might have different ideas about procurement plans.

Turkey and the UK have close defence relations due to their Nato partnership, but there is industrial cooperation as well. UK engine maker Rolls-Royce and its local partner Kale are expected to supply an engine for Ankara's first home-built fighter jet, the TF-X.

The UK-based BAE Systems is also collaborating closely with Turkish Aerospace Industries in the development of the jet, including its stealth technology.

The United Kingdom completely lifted all of its restrictions on the export of defence products to Turkey last May. Restrictions had been brought in following Ankara's 2019 offensive in northeast Syria.
 

TheInsider

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C-130J is a no-brainer. Our C-130 Erciyes modernization line is open. They will make an immediate impact on our military airlift capability and can be modernized to Erciyes configuration one by one. They are young planes and have a lot of flight hours left.
 

boredaf

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Two squadron of Eurofighters would be good, if we can get them in addition to F16 Vipers and upgrades kits not instead of.
 

Brokengineer

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So, the mentioned eurofighters are the second hand tranche 1's that will be modernised by us (to gain additional capabilites on different platform) or New tranche 4 fighters?
 

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