TR Turkish Air Forces|News & Discussion

[Turan]

Why do you just keep throwing false assumptions out there with no proof. They have no intention of scraping anything. Why don’t you share this as well

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1620015925746622464

“Nation Alliance: "Special budget will be provided for the Altay Tank, National Combat Aircraft, TF2000 Frigate projects to progress realistically, and special expert personnel will be allocated to these projects."

As far as I know, a special budget has already been allocated for MMU. What they mean by "special expert personnel"? Aren't the guys at the head of MMU not experts?

 

[Fairon]

Pls explain to me how possessing around 135 F35s doesnt equate to it being the Turks' main fighter? As far as my info goes, Turkey planned to eventually replace all of its F16s with F35s which means that it was going to become the main fighter jet of Turkey

Well the original plan was exactly this. Operating F35(Replacing F4's and some F16's) and MMU(Replacing F16's) as hi-lo concept which F35 as low and MMU as high. At the time F35 project aim to be a modern F16 in terms of costs.

 

[Lool]

Why do you just keep throwing false assumptions out there with no proof. They have no intention of scraping anything. Why don’t you share this as well

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1620015925746622464

“Nation Alliance: "Special budget will be provided for the Altay Tank, National Combat Aircraft, TF2000 Frigate projects to progress realistically, and special expert personnel will be allocated to these projects."

Ah yes, the "special budget" all politiciams talk about when they want to screw things up

Mate, do you seriously believe that if they want to cancel such projects, they will do it directly? If they did so, then the people will kill them since these are projects of national interests! So how do we screw it up? Set up so called national budgets of 2 dollars to each project and when the engineers says the budget is too small, then you tell the ppl that the project was a failure.
This is how Babacan wanted to get rid of Baykar btw. He stated that Baykar was getting favourable treatment (even though they absolutely do deserve it!) and that he will even the playing field even though Bayksr itself started in a basement with no support whatsoever

Moreover, according to Temil Kotil, all of the TFX, ATAK 2, and Gokbey have been 100% govt funded! In other words, whatever TAI asked for, they got it; i-e, a blank check. Therefore, what does the 'special budget' mean anyway? How can a budget be more special than a blank check?


Do you know how much the govt spends on just the R&D of Altay, Gokbey, TFX, Atak 2, Piri Reis submarines, Istanbul class frigates, TF2000.... etc? With the amount of money spent on such projects, they could have bought arms sufficient to arm a middle-class nation from "A" to "Z"

Do you know how many times Turkey got embargoed for developing such projects?

Do you know how long it took South Korea to develop its KF-21? It took them 21 years from 2001 till 2022 for Gods sake! Do you know how the govt sped up the TFX program? They actually leased engineers from BAE and paid them full time (in sterling pounds) while they were in Turkey just to teach Turkish engineers! The TFX project started in full steam in 2016 and in just 8 years you have a prototype that will fly. You think the Turks made a deal with a devil or demon for that? No, they coughed up exorbitant amounts of money to cover such projects that even the koreans (which have a bigger economy) didnt do

Wake the bloody hell mate..... when politicians say a "special budget", always know that they will screw things up.
If they are so God damn smart why cant they just say how much they are planning to spend anyway? They can just say we will spend more than what the AKP spends and get shit over but they know that they will never even spend half of that amount and they are sugarcoating it

Anyway, this isnt a turkish politics thread, so lets stop at that

 

[Lool]

Well the original plan was exactly this. Operating F35(Replacing F4's and some F16's) and MMU(Replacing F16's) as hi-lo concept which F35 as low and MMU as high. At the time F35 project aim to be a modern F16 in terms of costs.

Do you have a source? If so, can you share it?
From the sources I remember, i did read that the govt planned to replace most if not all of its F16s with F35..... which means a maintenance nightmare and a money shredder

There is a reason Canada was reluctant on buying the F35s in the first place after all

 

[Chocopie]

Do you know how long it took South Korea to develop its KF-21? It took them 21 years from 2001 till 2022 for Gods sake! Do you know how the govt sped up the TFX program? They actually leased engineers from BAE and paid them full time (in sterling pounds) while they were in Turkey just to teach Turkish engineers! The TFX project started in full steam in 2016 and in just 8 years you have a prototype that will fly. You think the Turks made a deal with a devil or demon for that? No, they coughed up exorbitant amounts of money to cover such projects that even the koreans (which have a bigger economy) didnt do

Only preliminary plans were announced in 2001. They didn’t start KF-X development then. After years of discussion and delays the real phase started 2015 with KAI as selected manufacturer.

6 years from final design to first prototype in 2021. 1 year after first flight in 2022.
$ 7.9 billion est. total development budget.

KF-X Fighter: Korea's Future Homegrown Jet - Defense Industry Daily

KODEF '11 slide (click to view full) South Korea has been thinking seriously about designing its own fighter jet since 2008. The ROK defense sector has made impressive progress, and has become a notable exporter of aerospace, land, and naval equipment. The idea of a plane that helps advance their…

www.defenseindustrydaily.com

 

[Oublious]

As expected
The opposition plans to return to the F35 project which means that there is a high probability for the MMU project to be sidelined or outright scrapped

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1620015206117306370

SO this means they will accept every terms of Greece and America, F35 is bargain chip. What kind deal they made behind doors. i hope we will not see it.


F35 is cryptonite, i remember when mike pompei used against us. He was warning Turkey if you use it in the Agean and Eastern Medean sea sea we will ambargo you. Imagine we have f35 and Americans do not allow to use it in Syria. All that shit money you earn and how good it is only if you can use the fighter as toilet paper.

US Congressman: F-35s could be ‘used against Greece’ if sold to Turkey | eKathimerini.com

The United States should freeze the sale of the Lockheed Martin F-35 fighter jets to Turkey because they are more likely to be used against Greece than against terrorists, US Congressman Brad Sherman told US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, during a Foreign Affairs Hearing on May 23.

www.ekathimerini.com

https://www.rubio.senate.gov/public/_cache/files/8e95052f-83e8-4970-8528-bdd1941dccfc/08177CD5B2BB6CB876E76F2EAFC5847A.eastern-med-res.pdf

 

[Heartbang]

https://www.rubio.senate.gov/public...5B2BB6CB876E76F2EAFC5847A.eastern-med-res.pdf

Can't read the file. Bloody maniacs geoblocked their allied country from accessing the website. Talk about #armenianmindset

 

[Kedikesenfare]

Only preliminary plans were announced in 2001. They didn’t start KF-X development then. After years of discussion and delays the real phase started 2015 with KAI as selected manufacturer.

6 years from final design to first prototype in 2021. 1 year after first flight in 2022.
$ 7.9 billion est. total development budget.

KF-X Fighter: Korea's Future Homegrown Jet - Defense Industry Daily

KODEF '11 slide (click to view full) South Korea has been thinking seriously about designing its own fighter jet since 2008. The ROK defense sector has made impressive progress, and has become a notable exporter of aerospace, land, and naval equipment. The idea of a plane that helps advance their…

www.defenseindustrydaily.com

Preliminary plans on a governmental level are not comparable to a dude making plans to meet his pals the very next day.

He's right. South Korea started the KF-X saga decades ago. So what?

 

[Chocopie]

Preliminary plans on a governmental level are not comparable to a dude making plans to meet his pals the very next day.

He's right. South Korea started the KF-X saga decades ago. So what?

His statement is quite not right. The net time span of KF-X development & design wasn’t 21 years in sum. It‘s comparable to the design & development time span of TFX, although MMU is a much more ambitious and riskier project.

„So what?“ Wanna start a fight or what‘s that flippant tone, he?!

 

[Brokengineer]

For those did not deliver f35s and kicked Turkiye out of equation, the eventual result will hopefully be in the link below. Some of You just need to be patent.

 

[what]

Tone down the politics in this thread and keep it in the dedicated politics thread, please.

 

[Fairon]

Do you have a source? If so, can you share it?
From the sources I remember, i did read that the govt planned to replace most if not all of its F16s with F35..... which means a maintenance nightmare and a money shredder

There is a reason Canada was reluctant on buying the F35s in the first place after all

I am not sure wheter there is any official sources regarding this but I listened/read this from Arda Mevlutoglu and couple of others.

Also considering F35 and MMU decision made before our F35 exclusion and modifications made to MMU design after F35 exclusion(making it more multirole and expanding weapon bay to accomidate larger bombs), we can confirm this was the plan.(Or evolved into this one after MMU decision made in 2010)

 

[Turan]

It seems that we are having great difficulties in acquiring new fighter Jets from abroad. In this case, the best thing to do would be to improve the capabilities at hand (For example Anka 3, Gökdoğan, Koral 2, Akıncı, Havasoj, Gökhan, Kızılelma, Siper, Hisar...) and spread the risks by spreading some platform-based shortcomings to the entire army with network-based warfare. I think in this thread that we should not only consider purchasing aircraft from abroad, but also this aspect of the issue in detail.

The future power and capabilities of the Turkish air force will not only be determined by the aircraft to be purchased from abroad. As I mentioned above, it is necessary to look at different aspects of the issue (such as pods developed to give aircraft new capabilities, new ammunition developements and the use of all of them integrated with network-based warfare). Otherwise, we'll find ourselves in this thread only be in a pissing contest with countries like Greece over fighter jets.

 

[No Name]

SO this means they will accept every terms of Greece and America, F35 is bargain chip. What kind deal they made behind doors. i hope we will not see it.


F35 is cryptonite, i remember when mike pompei used against us. He was warning Turkey if you use it in the Agean and Eastern Medean sea sea we will ambargo you. Imagine we have f35 and Americans do not allow to use it in Syria. All that shit money you earn and how good it is only if you can use the fighter as toilet paper.

US Congressman: F-35s could be ‘used against Greece’ if sold to Turkey | eKathimerini.com

The United States should freeze the sale of the Lockheed Martin F-35 fighter jets to Turkey because they are more likely to be used against Greece than against terrorists, US Congressman Brad Sherman told US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, during a Foreign Affairs Hearing on May 23.

www.ekathimerini.com

https://www.rubio.senate.gov/public/_cache/files/8e95052f-83e8-4970-8528-bdd1941dccfc/08177CD5B2BB6CB876E76F2EAFC5847A.eastern-med-res.pdf

what most people do not understand is that there doesn't need to be a kill-switch as the fighters can be grounded simply by embargoing part that is needed for maintenance, for example after Israel killed a Turkish humanitarian worker the US embargoed spare parts needed for Turkey's F-16s. If Turkey had the F-35 the same thing would most likely happen to Turkey wouldn't be able to use them in Libya, Syria, Iraq, and over the Aegean sea thus the fighter just sitting there as wasting money.

It is extremely stupid that Turkey is so reliant on one country for its air force that any other country would have long since diversified the air force. I really do not understand why Turkey never tried to buy some PAC JF-17 from Pakistan just to have it in its back pocket just in case there is a crisis with it's F-16s.

 

[Afif]

for example after Israel killed a Turkish humanitarian worker the US embargoed spare parts needed for Turkey's F-16s.

Source?

I really do not understand why Turkey never tried to buy some PAC JF-17 from Pakistan just to have it in its back pocket just in case there is a crisis with it's F-16s.

Because, this kind of diversification will make Turkish eunuch, more like the Egyptian Air Force. Beside, JF17 is not very good platform. Specially the first two blocks. Even for Bangladesh it would not make sense, let alone Turkey.
Last but not the least, as we saw with Ozgur modernisation, TAI can definitely produce any parts to keep these aircrafts well operational. ( Not like iran )

 

[No Name]

Source?

Because, this kind of diversification will make Turkish eunuch, more like the Egyptian Air Force. Beside, JF17 is not very good platform. Specially the first two blocks. Even for Bangladesh it would not make sense, let alone Turkey.
Last but not the least, as we saw with Ozgur modernisation, TAI can definitely produce any parts to keep these aircrafts well operational. ( Not like iran )

It was because of the Gaza flotilla I can't seem to find anything right now, but it was one of the unofficial embargoes that were lifted around 2013 when relations between Israel and Turkey returned back to being normalized.

 

[TheInsider]

Turkiye is close to signing a defense deal with the UK worth approx. 10 billion. It includes 48 brand-new Typhoons + second-hand typhoons. Turkiye is waiting for the decision of the US on the F-16 matter to finalize the deal. The deal may include some or all of the following: Turkish weapon integration for Typhoons, C130J, Type 23 frigates, a 1200HP powerpack for tanks, TFX engine cooperation, and an EJ-200 overhaul facility.

 

[boredaf]

Turkish weapon integration for Typhoons, C130J, Type 23 frigates, a 1200HP powerpack for tanks, TFX engine cooperation, and an EJ-200 overhaul facility.

C130J is a no-brainer for me, as well as TFX engine cooperation which would hasten our development by a lot and EJ-200 overhaul facility. And Typhoon would be a perfect stopgap until we start producing TFX/KE/Hurjet in light attack configuration in meaningful numbers. Type 23's and powerpacks are like a bonus

48 brand-new Typhoons + second-hand typhoons.

Will second hands just be tandem trainers on top of 48 new fighters?

 

[Lool]

Turkiye is close to signing a defense deal with the UK worth approx. 10 billion. It includes 48 brand-new Typhoons + second-hand typhoons. Turkiye is waiting for the decision of the US on the F-16 matter to finalize the deal. The deal may include some or all of the following: Turkish weapon integration for Typhoons, C130J, Type 23 frigates, a 1200HP powerpack for tanks, TFX engine cooperation, and an EJ-200 overhaul facility.

What about the national TEI-TF 35000 engine developed by TEI?

 

[No Name]

What about the national TEI-TF 35000 engine developed by TEI?

If they are smart, they will do both. TEI has stated that the TEI-TF-35000 would be an upsized TF-10000, so I imagen it wouldn't be too costly to develop the TF engine family if it is only upscaling that is needed as they keep claiming.