TR Turkish Air Forces|News & Discussion

[BalkanTurk90]

Some shitty laws are being made I the US congress. They are mocking 85 million people to satisfy Greece. We should thank for this kind offer and buy Eurofighters from UK if possible

Bro eurofighter is multi nation aorcraft too expensive and too complicated , They will delay and will do same as f35 or f16 .
If Turkiye needs aircraft better take them From china J-10 fighter is super aircraft if China accept ( most likely yes ) That Turkiye have right to modify and integrate its wespons , computers , and other systems to aircrafts will be great deal and cheaper .

 

[Cenkcnk]

Chinese planes will give extra motivation to these gangster to isolate us from the world like Iran
Our other projects like tfx or hurjet would be in more danger

 

[Brokengineer]

Bro eurofighter is multi nation aorcraft too expensive and too complicated , They will delay and will do same as f35 or f16 .
If Turkiye needs aircraft better take them From china J-10 fighter is super aircraft if China accept ( most likely yes ) That Turkiye have right to modify and integrate its wespons , computers , and other systems to aircrafts will be great deal and cheaper .

Eurofighter is now much matured platform and better interceptor for air to air operations. Yes, it is expensive. However, not expecting any kind of delays as f35 project.

Although chinese j10 shows some promises, i do not believe that chinese would provide it with our avionics and subsystems. Acquiring non nato platform would create futher problems like s400 did. J10c is still not as proven as european counterparts.

 

[what]

U.S. House backs measure that would restrict sale of F-16s to Turkey

The U.S. House of Representatives on Thursday approved legislation that would create a new hurdle for President Joe Biden's plan to sell F-16 fighter jets to Turkey.

www.reuters.com

But still a long way from becoming a law.

 

[godel44]

Meh, this latest amendment they are trying to introduce is pretty watered down. It seems the administration officials had a chat with these senators in the background so they retreated from a strict "no jets" to two conditions that seem digestible to the administration without losing face to their sponsoring lobbies. The first condition that the sale is in US interests is a given as it strengthen's NATO's southeastern wing. The second condition that it won't violate Greek airspace doesn't really cause a problem because, from a Turkish POV, we never violate Greek airspace. In 2019 the US government had actually put out a report saying they don't agree with Greek claim of 10nm airspace, so if they push more on this they might get a further invalidation of their wild airspace claims.

A sad thing here is that we seem to be unable to put the same pressure on them in other countries. What Greece is doing is actually quite arms sanctions-worthy: they are militarizing regions that have to be demilitarized to act against a NATO ally. There should at least be a similar condition for arms sales to Greece to ensure the sold material is not used to undermine international treaties.

 

[Heartbang]

Meh, this latest amendment they are trying to introduce is pretty watered down.

not only its watered down a lot, but also its nearly impossible to enforce. once TuAF gets hold of those planes i see no repercussions for them to use those planes as they wish.
another advantage of going with f16s instead of f35s

 

[Lool]

Meh, this latest amendment they are trying to introduce is pretty watered down. It seems the administration officials had a chat with these senators in the background so they retreated from a strict "no jets" to two conditions that seem digestible to the administration without losing face to their sponsoring lobbies. The first condition that the sale is in US interests is a given as it strengthen's NATO's southeastern wing. The second condition that it won't violate Greek airspace doesn't really cause a problem because, from a Turkish POV, we never violate Greek airspace. In 2019 the US government had actually put out a report saying they don't agree with Greek claim of 10nm airspace, so if they push more on this they might get a further invalidation of their wild airspace claims.

A sad thing here is that we seem to be unable to put the same pressure on them in other countries. What Greece is doing is actually quite arms sanctions-worthy: they are militarizing regions that have to be demilitarized to act against a NATO ally. There should at least be a similar condition for arms sales to Greece to ensure the sold material is not used to undermine international treaties.

Simply, wanna pressure the US congress or house of representatives and create a potent lobby group?
Three potent methods that Greece uses

1- Have hot Greek women marry 70 years old American politicians to fullfill Greece's goals

2- Have Turkish citizens (at a young age) migrate to US and enter into US politics; with it Turkey will have really strong backing. I remember recently that a Turkish-origin Doctor in the US wanted to join the US congress or senate and recieved a very severe backlash from Greece-funded groups since they know very well the consequences of such action

3- Pour shit tons of money on campaigns of neutral politicians, or US media and have them owe you a favour by promising not to reveal their "illegal" funding or whatever

 

[Anastasius]

Simply, wanna pressure the US congress or house of representatives and create a potent lobby group?
Three potent methods that Greece uses

1- Have hot Greek women marry 70 years old American politicians to fullfill Greece's goals

2- Have Turkish citizens (at a young age) migrate to US and enter into US politics; with it Turkey will have really strong backing. I remember recently that a Turkish-origin Doctor in the US wanted to join the US congress or senate and recieved a very severe backlash from Greece-funded groups since they know very well the consequences of such action

3- Pour shit tons of money on campaigns of neutral politicians, or US media and have them owe you a favour by promising not to reveal their "illegal" funding or whatever

Mehmet Oz. Wasn't even a bad candidate, had some good promises.

Turkey's Greek lobby problem goes back to Ottoman times when immigrants to the US from the Ottoman Empire were mostly Greek, Armenians or other flavor of Ottoman Christian along with some Jews and Arabs while Turks didn't go. Greeks were the main anti-Turkish force, Armenians were only slightly less before the late 19th century, other Ottoman Christians were generally neutral to hostile, Jews and Arabs were generally neutral and Turks weren't even there.

Should've encouraged a flood of Turkish migrants into the US early on to build up a base. Mid-20th century was a bit too late.

Ah well, future is still unwritten. Time enough to bring this rot down.

 

[Stuka]

Feasibility Studies Started for Domestic AWACS​

Work has started for domestic AWACS production. According to the information obtained , feasibility studies have started for the domestic production of AWACS, namely Airborne Early Warning and Control (HIK) Aircraft, which the Air Force Command plans to use in the future.

AWACS aircraft, which enable air, land and surface naval platforms to be detected from long distances without being stuck on the horizon line of the world, include an advanced radar and are considered among strategic weapon systems, are among the indispensables of air combat. (See NATIONAL COMBATIVE AIRCRAFT (MMU) )

Boeing-manufactured E-7T aircraft, which have been successfully performing their duties since they entered service in 2015, are among the most critical and advanced systems available to the Air Force Command. However, this does not prevent the Turkish Air Force from procuring a domestic Airborne Early Warning and Control Aircraft whose critical data are known only to Turkey.

As a result of the developing defense industry ecosystem, many of our companies, especially Military Electronics Industry (ASELSAN) and Turkish Aerospace Industries (TUSAŞ), develop important technologies in the field of aircraft and electronic systems. Domestic AESA radars, which will be used in domestic platforms such as electronic warfare aircraft Hava SOJ and F-16, Bayraktar Akıncı, MİUS , Hürjet and National Combat Aircraft, can be given as an example to this situation.

The Integrated RF System (BURFIS), developed by ASELSAN for the National Combat Aircraft, is the most advanced air-based AESA radar being developed in our country. Sanalsavunma.com, on the other hand, within the scope of the right to obtain information to learn whether our defense industry will undertake a larger project after this advanced radar, " Will the Air Force Command have a domestic AWACS hysteria? ” was asked to the Defense Planning and Project Management Presidency.

"Feasibility studies have been started on the subject and the public will be informed according to the results."

DEFENSE PLANNING AND PROJECT MANAGEMENT DEPARTMENT

Yerli AWACS için Fizibilete Çalışmaları Başladı - Sanal Savunma

Yerli AWACS üretimi için çalışmalar başladı. Sanalsavunma.com'un edindiği bilgilere göre Hava Kuvvetleri Komutanlığı'nın gelecekte kullanmayı planladığı AWACS

www.sanalsavunma.com

 

[Yasar_TR]

Çavuşoğlu’ndan F-16 Cevabı: Evet dememiz mümkün değil – Tolga Özbek

tolgaozbek.com

Turkish FM has said that the decision on the sale of 40f16V70 planes and 80 upgtade kits being tied to Greek Airspace violation conditions is totally unacceptable. He has said that it is not possible to say yes to such a deal.
So will Turkey withdraw it’s request for this purchase?
That is the honourable thing to do. But do we have a plan B?
Eurofighter?
Rafale?
Ozgur configuration for all planes in hand?

The last paragraph has a very good point that needs to be discussed further.
Greeks complain about Aegean air space violations. But their planes have violated airspace over Turkish mainland many times. So why US is not capitulating the same to the Greeks about Turkish mainland airspace violations when they are selling planes and upgrade kits to them?

 

[Ripley]

Although I’m hoping the statement to be a genuine one, my gut feeling and experience unfortunately makes it hard to believe that they will not accept it. I’m afraid they’ll accept it “as is” or maybe touch here and there and this statement will stay as nothing but another gaffe cover and face saver popular discourse.
Hope I’m wrong

Edit: my first post. Forgot to say hi. Sorry
Hi all

 

[Ruhnama]

Ideally Turkey would want to be able to integrate her indigenous weapons on to the new 40 F16-V70s and the 80 upgraded ones. Normally with limited access, we are able to introduce our weapons to the US planes as their US counterparts. (KGK as JSOW, HGK as JDAM, Gokdogan as Aim120-amraam etc).
If we can still do this all the merrier. Nothing changes. Status Quo
But there is the danger that if it doesn’t work as before; Then as well as having to get our weapons integrated at great costs , we would also release a lot of secret information to the third parties related to our weapons.
Export versions of our weapons, once the domestic needs are satisfied, will definitely be available to our close partners. Turkey has always been willing to sell weapons to her allies and friendly partner nations.

Turkish weaponry like missile and bomb that compatible with F16 and exported to other has good market share because many country use F16 but have some restriction or money to get US made weponry

 

[Brokengineer]

Çavuşoğlu’ndan F-16 Cevabı: Evet dememiz mümkün değil – Tolga Özbek

tolgaozbek.com

Turkish FM has said that the decision on the sale of 40f16V70 planes and 80 upgtade kits being tied to Greek Airspace violation conditions is totally unacceptable. He has said that it is not possible to say yes to such a deal.
So will Turkey withdraw it’s request for this purchase?
That is the honourable thing to do. But do we have a plan B?
Eurofighter?
Rafale?
Ozgur configuration for all planes in hand?

The last paragraph has a very good point that needs to be discussed further.
Greeks complain about Aegean air space violations. But their planes have violated airspace over Turkish mainland many times. So why US is not capitulating the same to the Greeks about Turkish mainland airspace violations when they are selling planes and upgrade kits to them?

If the aim is completely move away from our fleet from american fighters, meaning conforting agreements with us government and LM, özgur configuration is the way.
If not, then uprading blk30s with özgur and keeping block 50s as they re and getting around 40 typhoons or rafales (although very hard to believe and expensive) is second option.
Even getting eastern 4th gen alternatives with our radars, avionics and munitions should be considered given how bad our relations go in terms of both politically and as we futher taking market away from our western counterpars in defense industry.

I think, Relying only american fighters is not an option anymore.
We need to find new partners for design and development of fighters, avionics, radar, electronic aerial warfare, anti submarine warfare and importanly engines and drivetrains.

 

[Glass🚬]

I think, Relying only american fighters is not an option anymore.
We need to find new partners for design and development of fighters, avionics, radar, electronic aerial warfare, anti submarine warfare and importanly engines and drivetrains.

^thats why the strategic relationship with the uk is among the most important one for türkiye but its also necessary to develop new ones especially with the east and south east asia since there is the new focus of the world.

 

[Khagan1923]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556211101259497472

The Ministry of National Defense will sign an off-set agreement with Lockheed Martin for the procurement of F-16 Block 70 fighter jets. The agreement will be signed by the end of this year.

Turkey, through the Ministry of National Defense, had made a request to the United States for the procurement of 40 F-16 Block 70 aircraft and the modernization of 79 F-16 Block 40 and 50+ aircraft to Block 70 level. Within the scope of the said request, Letters of Request (LOR) were sent to the US Office of Defense and Cooperation (ODC-T) on May 25, 2022.


According to the information obtained, the Ministry of National Defense will sign an Off-Set Agreement with Lockheed Martin, the prime contractor company within the scope of the said procurement. The aim of the agreement is to increase the capabilities and capabilities of Turkish Defense Industry companies and their export rates in the international arena, to contribute to the development of the domestic and national defense industry and to reduce the negative impact on the balance of payments on behalf of Turkey.

Thanks to the off-set agreement to be signed, Lockheed Martin will be obliged to give work shares to Turkish defense industry companies in certain areas within the scope of the F-16 Block 70 sale. The agreement is planned to be signed by the end of this year.


---------------

What happened to the 80th plane to be modernized?

 

[Khagan1923]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556211101259497472

The Ministry of National Defense will sign an off-set agreement with Lockheed Martin for the procurement of F-16 Block 70 fighter jets. The agreement will be signed by the end of this year.

Turkey, through the Ministry of National Defense, had made a request to the United States for the procurement of 40 F-16 Block 70 aircraft and the modernization of 79 F-16 Block 40 and 50+ aircraft to Block 70 level. Within the scope of the said request, Letters of Request (LOR) were sent to the US Office of Defense and Cooperation (ODC-T) on May 25, 2022.


According to the information obtained, the Ministry of National Defense will sign an Off-Set Agreement with Lockheed Martin, the prime contractor company within the scope of the said procurement. The aim of the agreement is to increase the capabilities and capabilities of Turkish Defense Industry companies and their export rates in the international arena, to contribute to the development of the domestic and national defense industry and to reduce the negative impact on the balance of payments on behalf of Turkey.

Thanks to the off-set agreement to be signed, Lockheed Martin will be obliged to give work shares to Turkish defense industry companies in certain areas within the scope of the F-16 Block 70 sale. The agreement is planned to be signed by the end of this year.


---------------

What happened to the 80th plane to be modernized?

In my opinion if this is happening the number of the modernized planes should have included all the Block 40,50 and 50+. If we are doing it we should do it right and modernize the whole fleet except the Block 30 which will undergo Özgür. The number of new Block 70 should have been upped too. 60-80 would have been a sweet spot.

I don't understand why they are not just doing the whole fleet or at least all the Block 50 and upwards aircrafts.

This would have given us 260 F-16V Block 70 of which around almost a 100 would be equipped with CFT greatly increasing their range.

Alas we can only hope that they were smart enough to include enough goodies in the package (AIM-120D, Legion/Sniper Pods and maybe even a great number of replacement engines to store.)

Either go all in or don't go in at all. Half arsed plans will get us no where.

 

[Heartbang]

In my opinion if this is happening the number of the modernized planes should have included all the Block 40,50

heard Block40s also will go under Ozgur treatment.

 

[Yasar_TR]

heard Block40s also will go under Ozgur treatment.

If my logic and my memory are not deceiving me; 80 kits will cover the newest of our f16s. Since there is a 30 year limit on the planes for warranty etc, we will have the right to alter or add to them after this period. So….
~35 Block 30 planes are all over 30 years old. So they can be modernised to Ozgur. Most of the Block 40 planes are becoming 30 years old by 2025. So gradually they can be modernised in to Ozgur spec too. These cover the peace Onyx 1 deliveries.
The Peace Onyx 2,3 and 4 deliveries will cover the 80 planes we have which will become 30 years old at different times from 2027 to 2042. So these will need the purchased kits.
So the airforce will have all the ~270 planes with Aesa radars and v70 spec avionics.
The beautiful part of this will be the fact that all ~150 or so planes will have no contractual limitations hanging over them; But will have local Aesa radars and avionics on them.
Lets hope my logic is correct.

 

[MarcusZidanta]

Can TurAF use the F16 as a bomber aircraft?

TFX will replace current F16 fleet.
F35 was meant to replace F4 Terminators as bombers.
Can we use the F16 being replaced as bomber aircraft and retire F4?

 

[Ryder]

Can TurAF use the F16 as a bomber aircraft?

TFX will replace current F16 fleet.
F35 was meant to replace F4 Terminators as bombers.
Can we use the F16 being replaced as bomber aircraft and retire F4?

F16 XL was actually planned to be a bomber version of the F16 but it never made production.

I feel like the F16 can be turned into a bomber if we have the XL.

Which means its possible for the F16 to have a bomber role. If they configure it for the role.