TR Air Forces|News & Discussion

[Afif]

That is a bit of stretch.

 

[Ryder]

People can keep on calling Russian and Chinese planes crap but at least the Russians and Chinese operate their own stuff without any strings attached.

I really hope Kaan can do the same thing.

Kaan should really be a turning point for the Turks.

 

[Heartbang]

Key US senator won’t block F-16s to Turkey after Biden assurances on overflights, other issues​

US Senator Chris Van Hollen (D-MD) released a statement on Friday saying he will not seek to block the sale of F-16s to Turkey after receiving assurances from the Biden Administration that it will monitor Turkey’s behavior on a number of sensitive issues including its actions towards Greece.



Van Hollen, a member of the Senate’s Committee, said he got word from the administration that it continues to monitor closely whether incursions of Turkish aircraft into Greek airspace will continue “in order to encourage the ongoing dialogue between Greece and Turkey”; that it will “continue to warn Azerbaijan against taking further military action against Armenia and that they will work with Turkey to prevent any further escalation of that conflict”; and that it will continue to voice “strong objections” against Turkish attacks on Syrian Kurds, crucial US allies in the region, and that it “more clearly communicate” to the Kurds the commitment to support them.



“I continue to have serious concerns about President Erdogan’s ongoing attacks against our Syrian Kurdish allies, his aggressive actions in the Eastern Mediterranean, and the role he played in supporting Azerbaijan’s military assaults against Nagorno-Karabakh,” Van Hollen said.

Key US senator won’t block F-16s to Turkey after Biden assurances on overflights, other issues | eKathimerini.com

US Senator Chris Van Hollen (D-MD) released a statement on Friday saying he will not seek to block the sale of F-16s to Turkey after receiving assurances from the Biden Administration that it will monitor Turkey’s behavior on a number of sensitive issues including its actions towards Greece.

www.ekathimerini.com

F-16's are coming with restrictions.

If this is true than indeed it is the most stupid deal of the century.

Before you type your anger away, I'd like to remind y'all that we have absolutely no idea what kind of "word" he got from the Bidon admin.

It might as well went like this:

>stop sitting on your hands on this deal, or the secret service will air out your dirty laundry!
+yes, sir president

 

[RMZN]

Key US senator won’t block F-16s to Turkey after Biden assurances on overflights, other issues​

US Senator Chris Van Hollen (D-MD) released a statement on Friday saying he will not seek to block the sale of F-16s to Turkey after receiving assurances from the Biden Administration that it will monitor Turkey’s behavior on a number of sensitive issues including its actions towards Greece.



Van Hollen, a member of the Senate’s Committee, said he got word from the administration that it continues to monitor closely whether incursions of Turkish aircraft into Greek airspace will continue “in order to encourage the ongoing dialogue between Greece and Turkey”; that it will “continue to warn Azerbaijan against taking further military action against Armenia and that they will work with Turkey to prevent any further escalation of that conflict”; and that it will continue to voice “strong objections” against Turkish attacks on Syrian Kurds, crucial US allies in the region, and that it “more clearly communicate” to the Kurds the commitment to support them.



“I continue to have serious concerns about President Erdogan’s ongoing attacks against our Syrian Kurdish allies, his aggressive actions in the Eastern Mediterranean, and the role he played in supporting Azerbaijan’s military assaults against Nagorno-Karabakh,” Van Hollen said.

Key US senator won’t block F-16s to Turkey after Biden assurances on overflights, other issues | eKathimerini.com

US Senator Chris Van Hollen (D-MD) released a statement on Friday saying he will not seek to block the sale of F-16s to Turkey after receiving assurances from the Biden Administration that it will monitor Turkey’s behavior on a number of sensitive issues including its actions towards Greece.

www.ekathimerini.com

F-16's are coming with restrictions.

If this is true than indeed it is the most stupid deal of the century.

basically:
>greek lobbyist tells the people that pay him "everything is fine", whilst all that Biden really cared about was getting the F-16 - Sweden swap done.
>"will continue to warn", "voice strong objections", meaning all we will see are twitter posts like we are already used to.

The US doesn't recognize Greece's 10nm airspace claim and that is where greek newspapers such as ekathimerini get their "243 gazillion overflights within the last 3 months" numbers from.

 

[Rooxbar]

This is all because people have no idea about machinations of U.S. internal politics. He's the senator from Maryland. Baltimore, home to the largest Greek diaspora in U.S., is in Maryland. He's just trying to soothe his constituents and make sure they continue to vote for him. Otherwise if that blabber was actually substantial, he would propose to modify the executive agreement on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee under AECA when they hold formal review, which he will not do because he's a good boy.

 

[dBSPL]

There are reports that full-scale serial production of the KF-21 Boramae will start with 40 aircraft per year. I don't think anyone would dispute the idea that in the medium term, we may have a better prospect of certifying the Turkish munitions group with our Korean friends for KF-21 than with other potential counterparts. We have years of significant business development and procurement experience with Korea, especially in the defense bureaucracy.

Moreover, last year, the KF-21N variant studies were announced in line with the potential long-term goals of the Korean navy. As far as I know, the ROKN does not have such a request yet and it is not a formalized issue, but it also reveals the expansion potential of KAI's KF-21 program.

In short, instead of waiting for the green light from the Germans for EF for almost 2 years, or for additional F-16s, we could have considered the purchase of 2 squadrons of fighters from Korea.

 

[Strong AI]

There are reports that full-scale serial production of the KF-21 Boramae will start with 40 aircraft per year. I don't think anyone would dispute the idea that in the medium term, we may have a better prospect of certifying the Turkish munitions group with our Korean friends for KF-21 than with other potential counterparts. We have years of significant business development and procurement experience with Korea, especially in the defense bureaucracy.

Moreover, last year, the KF-21N variant studies were announced in line with the potential long-term goals of the Korean navy. As far as I know, the ROKN does not have such a request yet and it is not a formalized issue, but it also reveals the expansion potential of KAI's KF-21 program.

In short, instead of waiting for the green light from the Germans for EF for almost 2 years, or for additional F-16s, we could have considered the purchase of 2 squadrons of fighters from Korea.

Would not Korea need approval of the USA to be able to sell it to us?

 

[dBSPL]

Would not Korea need approval of the USA to be able to sell it to us?

@Chocopie

 

[Hannibal]

Would not Korea need approval of the USA to be able to sell it to us?

The KF-21 Boramae is subject to ITAR (International Traffic in Arms Regulations) restrictions.
The Eurofighter also has US components so again ITAR restrictions.
So TurAF is not trying to diversify the aircraft fleet from US control with these purchases.

I think the logic here is timing, Boramae will be introduced in 2026, and given the situation with North Korea and China, I doubt Korea would start production for TurAF before 2030.

The UK has promised deliveries of Eurofighter beginning of 2026 and the Eurofighter is a proven platform, whereas Boramae is kind of a gamble.
There are aging F-4s that need to be replaced urgently and need an answer to the Rafale and F-35 acquisition by Greece.

 

[Chocopie]

@Chocopie

Yep, approval from US, UK and other European companies and gov agencies.

Indigenizing foreign sourced technology and parts as usual in later stages of iterations. Common practice of our MIC.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

That would be a waste of money, the KAI KF-21 has no internal weapons bay, you might as well use any fighter available...
I don't understand why Hürjet was developed as a light fighter/trainer anyway.
If they had built it from the beginning like an F-16 alternative like the SAAB JAS 39 Gripen E then we wouldn't have a headache today.
Of all GEN 4+ aircraft, the SAAB model is probably the cheapest and most efficient model as a GEN 4+ fighter, and at the same time competitive with Rafaele & Eurofighter.
But the Swedes won't sell it to us, and it's built with tons of EU technology, so even if Sweden gave the go-ahead, half of Europe would probably have to give it too.

 

[Oublious]

Some members didn't understand what the senator meant, the issue he is talking about is Greece 10nm airspace. We are not violating ther airspace, so he says as long we don't violate according to international airspace laws. We do not accept Greece airspace laws thats the differences . Ther is no string with F-16.

 

[Scott Summers]

Chinese planes are crap, but Russian planes are not. No reason to mock them.

Even the German Luftwaffe with their Messerschmidts couldnt beat the Soviet airforce in World War II.

And till this day the Americans are buying Russian engines for their space rockets.

Russia has a great aviation history and strong producers in the sector with Sukhoi, Mikoyan, Iljushin and Tupolev.

The SU-24 for example is the first and only bomber aircraft with a side-by-side seating where the pilots can sit next eachother.

 

[Fuzuli NL]

Chinese planes are crap, but Russian planes are not. No reason to mock them.

Even the German Luftwaffe with their Messerschmidts couldnt beat the Soviet airforce in World War II.

And till this day the Americans are buying Russian engines for their space rockets.

Russia has a great aviation history and strong producers in the sector with Sukhoi, Mikoyan, Iljushin and Tupolev.

The SU-24 for example is the first and only bomber aircraft with a side-by-side seating where the pilots can sit next eachother.

View attachment 65290

View attachment 65291

The thing is, we can't say Russian weapons are crap as a generalisation or that of any country as a matter of fact.
The Soviet era was full of pioneering aviation breakthroughs like the MiG-25, Tu-95, Yak-36/38, Tu-160, Su-24, Mi-6, Mi-26 etc, etc.
Many of the western weaponry was made either as a response to a Soviet threat or a stolen copy. (See Concorde/Tu-144).
Variable wings/VTOL/Mach 3 fighters/long range bombers are only some of the ideas gleaned from the Soviets.

That being said, the doctrine being quite different than western one, with the standards all over the place unlike NATO ones, in addition to lack of supervision and quality control that have been a normality since the collapse of the USSR, all these factors plus "the Vodka factor" and lack of purpose and faith in the military show us how they all affect the performance of weaponry in general.

The Ukraine war had shown us that no matter how advanced and badass your equipment are, lack of strategic acumen, regular maintenance, properly planned logistics, and simply the belief in your military leadership would result in fatal flaws.

The US have made the most amazing weapons ever but they've produced plenty of lemons too.

So when Turkish defence industry messes up from time to time, let's all try constructive criticism instead of lashing out immediately.

 

[boredaf]

Chinese planes are crap, but Russian planes are not. No reason to mock them.

Even the German Luftwaffe with their Messerschmidts couldnt beat the Soviet airforce in World War II.

And till this day the Americans are buying Russian engines for their space rockets.

Russia has a great aviation history and strong producers in the sector with Sukhoi, Mikoyan, Iljushin and Tupolev.

The SU-24 for example is the first and only bomber aircraft with a side-by-side seating where the pilots can sit next eachother.

View attachment 65290

View attachment 65291

Russia of today is not the Soviet Union of decades ago. Their oh so good planes couldn't even get air superiority against Ukraine's Soviet made planes and S-300 air defence systems. And let's not even talk about their "5th gen" plane SU-57 lol. History doesn't matter when a country has spent decades in corruption and can barely fulfils its own orders while those planes you praise fall out of the sky on their own.

 

[Scott Summers]

Turkish F-35 fighters undergo technical maintenance every month.

A Turkish news source, Aydınlık, reports that the United States is requesting compensation for the maintenance of F-35 fighter jets.

These aircraft, which have not been delivered to Turkey, have been kept in storage for six consecutive years.

Turkish F-35 fighters undergo technical maintenance every month

bulgarianmilitary.com

 

[Spitfire9]

Turkish F-35 fighters undergo technical maintenance every month.

View attachment 65316

A Turkish news source, Aydınlık, reports that the United States is requesting compensation for the maintenance of F-35 fighter jets.

These aircraft, which have not been delivered to Turkey, have been kept in storage for six consecutive years.

Turkish F-35 fighters undergo technical maintenance every month

bulgarianmilitary.com

We enter the realms of absurdity here, don't we?

 

[uçuyorum]

We enter the realms of absurdity here, don't we?

The answer is clear: "You will be compensated upon delivery"

 

[Sanchez]

We enter the realms of absurdity here, don't we?

I mean not really. By all accounts, those 6 fighters are Turkish property, paid for and delivered to Turkish air force. Them being confiscated would be akin to UK confiscating the Ottoman dreadnoughts in 1914. US broke the contract on F-35 and they are stuck with our F-35s. They can't deliver them to TR because they changed the contract and they can't absorb them to USAF, because it's not theirs to do so. More like legal hell than absurdity.

 

[Scott Summers]

I mean not really. By all accounts, those 6 fighters are Turkish property, paid for and delivered to Turkish air force. Them being confiscated would be akin to UK confiscating the Ottoman dreadnoughts in 1914. US broke the contract on F-35 and they are stuck with our F-35s. They can't deliver them to TR because they changed the contract and they can't absorb them to USAF, because it's not theirs to do so. More like legal hell than absurdity.

The source says the maintenance costs reached 30 million US dollars.

Hakan Fidan should have said we will pay if you deliver.