TR Turkish Air Forces|News & Discussion

[Saithan]

One question: only the F-16 Block 50/50+ will be upgraded to Block 70, the remaining F-16 Block 30/40 will get the Özgür package, the equivalent of Block 70, right?
40 New F-16 Block 70 Aircrafts
79 Block 70 Upgrade Kits, how many Block 50/50+ have we totally?

I don’t think comparing özgür upgrade to block 70 is right.

 

[TheInsider]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1795141299462422816

I told you. Upgrade kits might be delivered earlier but the calendar is problematic. Why should I get any F-16 when there are ongoing Özgür modernization and advanced UCAV projects and we will get the delivery of the first 20 block 10 KAAN in 2028. Half of 2024 passed and no contract signature is on the horizon.

 

[Ahlatshah]

I don’t think comparing özgür upgrade to block 70 is right.

Nope, Ozgur and B70 very well be comparable, not now of course but in the very near future. It all comes down performance of the Murad radar. If Murad is as good as advertised it becomes, ozgür will be even more useful for us than B70.

Then why not we upgrade all our f16s to özgür? We simply dont have the source codes of other f16s. We need permission from US and LM for necessary kits and source codes for our B40 and B50. We can not go ahead and upgrade other F16s unless we burn the bridges with them. Also it would be very difficult and time consuming task.

 

[Rodeo]

Nope, Ozgur and B70 very well be comparable, not now of course but in the very near future. It all comes down performance of the Murad radar. If Murad is as good as advertised it becomes, ozgür will be even more useful for us than B70.

Then why not we upgrade all our f16s to özgür? We simply dont have the source codes of other f16s. We need permission from US and LM for necessary kits and source codes for our B40 and B50. We can not go ahead and upgrade other F16s unless we burn the bridges with them. Also it would be very difficult and time consuming task.

why do we need the source codes?

 

[Saithan]

We have a saying in turkish.

bol osturakli göte arpa ekmek bahane…

just came to my mind when I read ppl comment.

well I just want to point out that ppl are relying and comparing fatamorgana vs. Reality.

 

[Afif]

why do we need the source codes?

Yes. When you replacing the central computer all together why need source codes?

What I understood is having the source basically means the right to modification and customization. You keep the computer and change other things or you change everything all together. It really doesn't matter when you have the source code already, there is nothing extra you could compromise at that point.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

Nope, Ozgur and B70 very well be comparable, not now of course but in the very near future. It all comes down performance of the Murad radar. If Murad is as good as advertised it becomes, ozgür will be even more useful for us than B70.

Then why not we upgrade all our f16s to özgür? We simply dont have the source codes of other f16s. We need permission from US and LM for necessary kits and source codes for our B40 and B50. We can not go ahead and upgrade other F16s unless we burn the bridges with them. Also it would be very difficult and time consuming task.

Wasn't there talk of upgrading Block 30 & 40 in Project Özgür I & II? Perhaps the source code of Block 30 is similar to that of Block 40 to enable a jailbreak.

 

[Rodeo]

Yes. When you replacing the central computer all together why need source codes?

What I understood is having the source is basically means the right to modification and customization. You keep the computer and change other things or you change everything all together. It really doesn't matter when you have the source code already, there is nothing extra you could compromise at that point.

Aselsan is replacing the mission computers of Block30 aircraft. When you have your mission computer on the aircraft you have a complete command on the mission systems. We're not touching the flight computers. That would require us to teach the aircraft how to fly from the beginning. And since these two computers do not communicate with each other, we need no interface between the two. In essence, no need for the source codes.

This is the technical dimension of the matter. The legal aspects of these modifications are up for discussion.

 

[Afif]

Aselsan is replacing the mission computers of Block30 aircraft. When you have your mission computer on the aircraft you have a complete command on the mission systems. We're not touching the flight computers. That would require us to teach the aircraft how to fly from the beginning. And since these two computers do not communicate with each other, we need no interface between the two. In essence, no need for the source codes.

This is the technical dimension of the matter. The legal aspects of these modifications are up for discussion.

According the defenceturkey article I read, Türkiye has purchased the source code of OFP that runs on the mission computer.

 

[Rodeo]

According the defenceturkey article I read, Türkiye has purchased the source code of OFP that runs on the mission computer.

you mean the Block 50+ upgrades of the latest purchase?

can you link the source? I could not find any reference to a source code purchase of OFP.

 

[Afif]

you mean the Block 50+ upgrades of the latest purchase?

can you link the source? I could not find any reference to a source code purchase of OFP.

Purchase of OFP source code didn't include block 50 mission computers. All block 30s and a good numbers of block 40s.

President ERDOĞAN Announces Successful Test of BOZDOĞAN WVR Air-to-Air Missile

On April 14, 2021, President Recep Tayyip ERDOĞAN announced that the BOZDOĞAN IIR guided within visual range (WVR) air-to-air missile developed by youth Turkish technicians and engineers under GÖKTUĞ Project has successfully destroyed its target (TUSAŞ`s ŞİMŞEK high-Speed target Drone) during...

www.defenceturkey.com

 

[godel44]

I told you. Upgrade kits might be delivered earlier but the calendar is problematic. Why should I get any F-16 when there are ongoing Özgür modernization and advanced UCAV projects and we will get the delivery of the first 20 block 10 KAAN in 2028. Half of 2024 passed and no contract signature is on the horizon.

I believe the answer at the time was that the Air Force wanted to diversify in case Özgür was delayed or not up to expectations. Somehow I think we might very well just go ahead with Özgür for the whole fleet and Kaan first block in 2029 without anything from the Americans. Too many things might create excuses to cancel that purchase and in the end it might not be needed by us.

 

[Rodeo]

Purchase of OFP source code didn't include block 50 mission computers. All block 30s and a good numbers of block 40s.

President ERDOĞAN Announces Successful Test of BOZDOĞAN WVR Air-to-Air Missile

On April 14, 2021, President Recep Tayyip ERDOĞAN announced that the BOZDOĞAN IIR guided within visual range (WVR) air-to-air missile developed by youth Turkish technicians and engineers under GÖKTUĞ Project has successfully destroyed its target (TUSAŞ`s ŞİMŞEK high-Speed target Drone) during...

www.defenceturkey.com

Thanks for the source. From the reading, the purchased OFP was for the testing of AA missiles that was performed on an older mission computer of LockMart and has no relation to ÖZGÜR modernization program. It was a forward-thinking decision to be able to test the missiles when the aircrafts were not equipped with our avionics and our ofp. Otherwise, the test campaign would have to wait this year(the first fire test of the national MC was a week ago) to test out our armaments.

 

[valarmogu]

Aimee P. Burnett, Vice President of Aircraft Strategy and Business Development at Lockheed Martin, made statements about Turkey's procurement of 40 new F-16 Viper aircraft.

Burnett said the factory is in the final stages of achieving its goal of increasing the production rate to four aircraft per month, and currently has a “queue” of 122 aircraft for a total of six countries. It will take three years to complete delivery of these 122 aircraft.

If the contract is further delayed and new orders are placed in the meantime, the delivery time for the first Turkish F-16 Viper will be further delayed.

Although a final decision has not yet been made, the F-16 Viper fighter jets requested by Türkiye are expected to be produced at Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) facilities in Türkiye.

It must be said that Türkiye has a lot of knowledge about F-16 production, so the probability of production in TAI facilities is very high. The key question here is when the contracts will be signed. If it is decided that the contract and production will be carried out in Türkiye, TAI has previously stated that the production lines can be opened in a very short time.

Türkiye ; F-16 Viper Savaş Uçaklarını 2027 Yılında Teslim Alabilir! - ULU Savunma

Lockheed Martin Uçak Stratejik ve İş Geliştirme Başkan Yardımcısı Aimee P. Burnett, Türkiye'nin 40 adet yeni F-16 Viper uçağı tedariki hakkında açıklamalarda

www.ulusavunma.com

 

[boredaf]

Wasn't there talk of upgrading Block 30 & 40 in Project Özgür I & II? Perhaps the source code of Block 30 is similar to that of Block 40 to enable a jailbreak.

Give your head a wobble mate, we won't do something as stupid as that. It isn't even remotely realistic. At all. We are not going to throw away our ties to the West and turn ourselves into next Iran or North Korea just to upgrade few jets. That's beyond stupid.

 

[zio]

We have blk 30 source code but its not clear for mission or flight computer
Our blk 30s mission computer is come from modernized block 40s,some of the blk 40s is not modernized that means some of blk 30 do not have mission computer of blk 40s
There are some smilarities of mission and flight computers on all blocks
Change of mission computer codes do not interfece flight characteristics
You can not apply any ammunition or pods without testing and software update of flight computer unless its on the same location and shape and weight.

 

[Sanchez]

One question: only the F-16 Block 50/50+ will be upgraded to Block 70, the remaining F-16 Block 30/40 will get the Özgür package, the equivalent of Block 70, right?
40 New F-16 Block 70 Aircrafts
79 Block 70 Upgrade Kits, how many Block 50/50+ have we totally?

All Block 50+(29, 1 crashed) and 50 Block 40Ms will be upgraded to Viper for a total of 79. Remaining Block 40Ms(about 65) and all Block 50Ms(about 80) will be upgraded to Özgür II. I’m not sure if Block 30s will be upgraded to Özgür II as well.

When both programs are completed, we should have 119 Vipers and about 150 Özgür IIs I think.

 

[Fatman17]

Turkiye to Receive First F-16 Viper in mid-2027 Earliest https://turdef.com/article/turkiye-to-receive-first-f-16-viper-in-mid-2027-earliest

3 year lead time.

 

[I_Love_F16]

Turkiye to Receive First F-16 Viper in mid-2027 Earliest https://turdef.com/article/turkiye-to-receive-first-f-16-viper-in-mid-2027-earliest

3 year lead time.

"provided the contract is signed immediately". So it's not definitive.

 

[boredaf]

"provided the contract is signed immediately". So it's not definitive.

And if we don't produce the F-16s ourselves. If we do, that timeline would most certainly change as we wouldn't have to wait for any other order but just TAI to get the production line going.