TR Turkish Air Forces|News & Discussion

[Rooxbar]

If you really think Israel will allow the sale and lose its qualitative edge, I have a bridge to sell to you.

yes the omnipotent israel.

 

[Hannibal]

yes the omnipotent israel.

 

[Sanchez]

If you really think Israel will allow the sale and lose its qualitative edge, I have a bridge to sell to you.

They failed to stop the Meteor sale to Egypt. Egypt finally will have modern long range AAMs after 40 years. I don't know whether we'll eventually get Eurofighters or Meteors with them but it won't be down to Israeli protests.

 

[Saithan]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1887918169576067438

So who's lying MOD or Spanish news.

I'm more inclined to believe Spanish news than our politicians, since they're incompetent.

I'm pretty damn sur they if ignored a wording that means we get shafted

 

[Strong AI]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1887918169576067438

So who's lying MOD or Spanish news.

I'm more inclined to believe Spanish news than our politicians, since they're incompetent.

I'm pretty damn sur they if ignored a wording that means we get shafted

We are discussing this news and same source since Monday. You even took part in that discussion. Why are you posting now the same thing again?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1886507569537310850

“According to the Spanish newspaper @larazon_es , 40 Typhoon jets, the first 20 of which will be second-hand from the UK and the other 20 of which will be newly produced, are expected to enter service with Meteor missiles between 2026 and 2030.”


Not what we hoped for but also it’s a known fact that TurAF definitely need aircraft right now.

 

[Saithan]

I must have missed a post.

At the end of the day public purchase request are not state secrets and should be shared with public for scrutiny.

 

[Yasar_TR]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1887918169576067438

So who's lying MOD or Spanish news.

I'm more inclined to believe Spanish news than our politicians, since they're incompetent.

I'm pretty damn sur they if ignored a wording that means we get shafted

Bro, these were all discussed in previous pages.
This news you shared is wrong as the exact translation doesn’t mention any T1 Typhoons. Please see my post #4021 :

Turkish Air Forces|News & Discussion

Eurofighter T1 makes no sense as a rapid response, it has no air-to-ground capabilities. It has no AESA radar, the EW and mission computer is technologically 15-20 years old and will be EoL by 2030 at the latest. Who do you want to defend yourself against with this Aircraft? Every country...

defencehub.live

We can discuss and argue here all day and everyday. But we will get nowhere. I suggest you read last 3 pages related to this subject.

Also British themselves have stated that T1 planes can’t fire Meteor missiles. That is one of the reasons they are being retired. So there is a major contradiction in your shared so called news piece.

 

[Hannibal]

They will mostly likely acquire 20 T3 Eurofighters from RAF or Qatar + 20 new built T4

 

[Turkic]

They will mostly likely acquire 20 T3 Eurofighters from RAF or Qatar + 20 new built T4

Any claims for your T3 statement ?

 

[Sanchez]

New update on the Meteor sale during the weekly press briefing:

"MSB Sources: "We are planning to add Meteor missiles to our inventory as part of the Eurofighter Typhoon procurement project. Our priority is domestic and national weapons and systems. In this context, we are planning to strengthen our Air Force with the GÖKHAN air-to-air missile, which is equivalent to the Meteor missile we are developing. Until the GÖKHAN missile enters the inventory, the procurement of the Meteor missile continues smoothly together with the Eurofighter aircraft."

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1889963221962072378

 

[Fatman17]

142 Filo "Gazelle (Ceylan)" (TuAF)

Source: F-16.net

 

[Sanchez]

Per MoD Güler's latest words last week, 2 RAF Typhoons will visit Turkey on Dec 18, after joining a joint exercise in Qatar and land directly at Mürted/Akıncı.

İki Eurofighter 18 Aralık’ta Ankara’ya geliyor – Tolga Özbek

tolgaozbek.com

Reading into this a bit more, I'm puzzled and this visit might be a little more unusual than the rest.

Firstly, 2 aircraft are I believe 2 RAF Typhoons from the joint RAF/Qatari joint squadron No. 12, which was reformed to train Qatari pilots and crews after their purchase in the past. I think it has deployed to Qatar at no less than 3 times since it was reformed in 2018.

Piece also adds that these aircraft will be returning from Qatar after joining the Qatari/European joint exercise "Ferocious Falcon V", which Turkey also joined. But this exercise was in 2023, not 2024. Hence my thinking these aircraft were not just there for the exercise but deployed there temporarily as part of No. 12 squadron.

2 aircraft are FGR4s per Özbek. While complicated, a FGR.Mk4 is basically a single seater Block 5 EF2000 built under Tranche 1 updated with multi-role capabilities for ground strike and recce roles unlike earlier blocks.

FGR4s are the most capable of the RAF Tranche 1s but they are also to be retired in the following few years.

Per the piece, 2 aircraft will directly come to Mürted base, to home of TAI and not Eskişehir and Konya, which are the more popular airbases for joint exercises.

I think either we might see an update on the previously dispelled claim of HvKK buying ex-RAF Typhoons, or this might be the first of many visits to start a joint RAF/TurAF squadron to train Turkish pilots and crews like how RAF did with Qataris and how we recently did with Qataris in Qatar. Or maybe even both...

Thought it was interesting.

HvKK chief visited the 12 joint RAF/Qatari squadron as RAF chief's guest. (aircraft shown here however is from the 11 Squadron from the same base). I think they are actively studying creating a joint Turkish/RAF squadron for training. as we previously discussed.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1892882228771725313

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1893216202601689369

 

[Sanchez]

"The Turkish Air Force, which is closely interested in the C-130J Super Hercules Transport Aircraft, which will be decommissioned by the British Royal Air Force in 2023 in order to support the C-130BM/EM Fleet, sent a delegation to the UK to inspect the aircraft and held preliminary discussions on cooperation within the scope of the project. In the first phase

Per Özbek, HvKK and RAF chiefs also discussed the sale of ex-RAF C-130Js. Either the scope of the deal is lowered from 10-12 to 5 or this is just the first phase. So this is still not a done deal.

"The Turkish Air Force will continue its journey with 5 C-130JC4s to be purchased from England in the short term to meet its increasing military transport aircraft needs. The final details were discussed during the visit of Air Forces Commander General Cemal Ziya Kadıoğlu to England."

"One of the countries that showed interest in the aircraft was Turkey. The Turkish Air Force had started looking for alternatives after the C-160s were removed from the inventory (there is still only one active aircraft), the operational efficiency of the 13 C-130Es and 6 C-130Bs in hand was low despite their modernization, and the entire burden fell on the 10 Airbus A400Ms in the inventory. The purchase of additional A400Ms from Airbus was also on the agenda among the plans."

Türkiye İngiltere’den 5 adet C-130J alacak – Tolga Özbek

tolgaozbek.com

 

[Khagan1923]

Per Özbek, HvKK and RAF chiefs also discussed the sale of ex-RAF C-130Js. Either the scope of the deal is lowered from 10-12 to 5 or this is just the first phase. So this is still not a done deal.

"The Turkish Air Force will continue its journey with 5 C-130JC4s to be purchased from England in the short term to meet its increasing military transport aircraft needs. The final details were discussed during the visit of Air Forces Commander General Cemal Ziya Kadıoğlu to England."

"One of the countries that showed interest in the aircraft was Turkey. The Turkish Air Force had started looking for alternatives after the C-160s were removed from the inventory (there is still only one active aircraft), the operational efficiency of the 13 C-130Es and 6 C-130Bs in hand was low despite their modernization, and the entire burden fell on the 10 Airbus A400Ms in the inventory. The purchase of additional A400Ms from Airbus was also on the agenda among the plans."

Türkiye İngiltere’den 5 adet C-130J alacak – Tolga Özbek

tolgaozbek.com

The 10 A400M deal also went nowhere. Pretty much ignoring the logistic fleet for a Armed Forces that has been expending its presence over the last 10 years immensely.
Let's see when everything will start breaking down, even the "newer" A400M had to undergo overhauls because they have been getting used non-stop since being inducted.

Of all the major Armed Forces in Europe we have a pathetic logistic fleet in comparison. Even Germany has a greater one.

Just as comparison so people understand how bad the situation actually is.

Germany:

A400M: 48+5 on order
C-130J: 3 (joined unit with the French)


France:

A400M: 24+26 on order
C-130J: 2
C-130: 14 (most likely to be replaced by indigenous french project or C-390)
A330 MRTT: 12+3 on order


let's what the Turkish Air Force has to deal with, yes?

Türkiye:

A400M: 10 (still no further orders and the ones purchased are already undergoing or have undergone an overhaul due to the amount of hours they have put in with their limited numbers)
C-130: 13 E + 6B (all of them nearing retirement)
C-130J: 5 from UK (down from original 12 planes)

that's is it

you can also count the 7 KC-135R but those are mainly for tanker tasks due to their age.

Brazil offered us co-development of the C-390 we said no, Ukraine offered us to co-develop the AN-188 we said no, we never ordered any C-17 even when there was a chance before they shut down the production line, we aren't ordering any new A400M even though we need at least another 20-30, we aren't ordering any new C-130J, any C-390 and now we cut down the amount of used C-130J we were gonna purchase from the UK.

Like what is the plan here? Wait and see how long the logistic fleet can take the abuse?

 

[Ripley]

The 10 A400M deal also went nowhere. Pretty much ignoring the logistic fleet for a Armed Forces that has been expending its presence over the last 10 years immensely.
Let's see when everything will start breaking down, even the "newer" A400M had to undergo overhauls because they have been getting used non-stop since being inducted.

Of all the major Armed Forces in Europe we have a pathetic logistic fleet in comparison. Even Germany has a greater one.

Just as comparison so people understand how bad the situation actually is.

Germany:

A400M: 48+5 on order
C-130J: 3 (joined unit with the French)


France:

A400M: 24+26 on order
C-130J: 2
C-130: 14 (most likely to be replaced by indigenous french project or C-390)
A330 MRTT: 12+3 on order


let's what the Turkish Air Force has to deal with, yes?

Türkiye:

A400M: 10 (still no further orders and the ones purchased are already undergoing or have undergone an overhaul due to the amount of hours they have put in with their limited numbers)
C-130: 13 E + 6B (all of them nearing retirement)
C-130J: 5 from UK (down from original 12 planes)

that's is it

you can also count the 7 KC-135R but those are mainly for tanker tasks due to their age.

Brazil offered us co-development of the C-390 we said no, Ukraine offered us to co-develop the AN-188 we said no, we never ordered any C-17 even when there was a chance before they shut down the production line, we aren't ordering any new A400M even though we need at least another 20-30, we aren't ordering any new C-130J, any C-390 and now we cut down the amount of used C-130J we were gonna purchase from the UK.

Like what is the plan here? Wait and see how long the logistic fleet can take the abuse?

Please don’t get me started bro. I can rant for pages. Just wanna add your analysis heavy transport helis. All our branches severely lack of heavy transport helis as well. And just found out recently that they’re sizing T925 down to Black Hawk size from a 11 tons MTOW monster.

 

[Khagan1923]

Please don’t get me started bro. I can rant for pages. Just wanna add your analysis heavy transport helis. All our branches severely lack of heavy transport helis as well. And just found out recently that they’re sizing T925 down to Black Hawk size from a 11 tons MTOW monster.

I was gonna get into that one too but didn't want to bloat. We need way more CH-47 and especially for the navy we need CH-53.
Guess the Armed Forces needs to learn it the hard way to prioritize logistics over all branches.

 

[UkroTurk]

The Eurofighter Tranche 1 is an absolute dead end, you can upgrade it in certain points, e.g. mission computer, maybe also modern EW and new cockpit displays etc. but all this is cosmetic.
It will never get an AESA radar, it will never have air-to-ground capabilities.

Do we really have to get European original upgrade package? Would it be impossible for ASELSAN to upgrade T1s with Turkish AESA?

On the other hand, look at the numbers of underwing pods. ASELSAN could create forward looking AESA pods for EF. Sacrificing two pods under each wing for AESA , future Turkish EFs could use even domestic S2 a missiles.

 

[Saithan]

I've said it before, but our government isn't trustworthy. They're doing all of this to keep our armed forces weak enough, but not too weak. They're pretty much reducing our armed forces to only be able to do COIN.

The government wants to stay in power longer time, and keeping the armed forces divided and only able to do COIN is one of their goals.

I believe that is also why we're seeing all the crap going on in the country with people being thrown in jail for speaking their minds.

Big turkish companies moving HQ to outside of Turkey is another proof of their distrust to the government and their "empowered" caretaker laws.

 

[Sanchez]

Just as comparison so people understand how bad the situation actually is.

While I mainly agree with your point, this list is not exhaustive. HvKK still also operates some 40 CN235s in utility roles. These aircraft are used for any and all kinds of missions. Germany and France now lack a similar smaller cargo aircraft in their inventory after C-160 was retired and have to use their larger aircraft for all utility missions to move cargo between bases and to also move cargo to other countries. While the cargo fleet must grow in numbers, it's not AS bad as it seems.

But I do agree that we need to buy more larger aircraft and I am also of the opinion that a private shell company must be created to buy and use IL-76s like many neighbors do. It can be operated from unpaved runways like the C-17. Our future operations in the African continent would see benefits from such an arrangement, it would also create more plausible deniability.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

I don't believe that any previous government has done as much for armaments projects and arming its armed forces as this one. Anyone who claims or thinks otherwise is only lying to themselves.
Secondly, and this is not a random phenomenon, the better the armed forces become, the more specialized they become. In most cases, transformations occur where the armed forces end up being up to 10% smaller, in principle the unqualified soldiers are weeded out. In addition, Turkey has enough soldiers in the reserve and a specialized mercenary army like SADAT, an army that is capable of acting abroad without being held accountable as a country. This is what the Americans, Russians, French, Iran, Israel etc. have been doing for decades in combination with their foreign intelligence services.
Thirdly, they have destroyed an ancient system that ran strictly according to the motto "peace at home, peace in the world".
This system does not work in the 21st century you have to expand economically, politically with hard & software power. The old system of only dealing with your own problems and things in the country and being completely subordinate to NATO hierarchy is over and that is a very good thing. We have seen that this system was total garbage, the rivals have expanded and actively and passively promoted networks such as ISIS, PKK/YPG & Co and always put Turkey under pressure and destabilized it for decades in several coups.

Let's move on to Eurofighter Tranche 1 - there is no point in investing in a platform where the supply of spare parts is virtually non-existent, only to have to replace it in 5-6 years. Until all these pods are optimized by ASELSAN and work satisfactorily with the interfaces of the Eurofighter and call up their performance, it may take several years of tests to validate these systems. The same applies to an Özgür II-like upgrade path where almost everything is replaced and improved with Turkish systems for 20 Eurofighter Tranche 1 aircraft, which would be a waste of money and resources.
Then you can just buy a new aircraft and wait 2-3 years with the same result.

Again, nobody is going to attack Turkey in the next 5-10 years, it is neither an Iraq nor a Syria or Iran that would make it an easy target.
That they would need fighter planes immediately in 2-3 years. The Özgür II upgrade plan to all F-16 blocks with drones will last until 2028/29 and then the first TAI KAAN, Anka 3 and Kizilelma and Eurofighter Tranche 4 will arrive.