Live Conflict Turkish Operations in Northern Iraq

[Bogeyman]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1401196603780878338

 

[Kartal1]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1401158506976272387

If you can't deal with the problem yourself Turkey will deal with it. No voices were raised when every day a Turkish soldier was martyred inside Turkey by terrorists coming from your areas but suddenly you give casualties and Turkey is bad. Erdogan said wise words when stated "the snakes you are feeding in your hole will bite you one day" to the EU countries but we can use the same words in the context for KRG.

The good thing is that this is only the teaser and the preparation for the real strikes that are coming.

 

[Akhtar]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1401229472372822020

A mistake before the meeting with Biden

 

[Glass🚬]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1401229472372822020

A mistake before the meeting with Biden

Nope, they will have to pick sides, either the PKK or us and the drone strike was the message.

 

[Akhtar]

Nope, they will have to pick sides, either the PKK or us and the drone strike was the message.

Disagreed. The subject of Maxmur has come up many, many times for decades now. It is a UN protected camp that we have air striked several times for domestic gains in politics. The fact that it is a refugee camp of thousands from Turkey is not deniable. Those strikes kill maybe a handful of PKK over the years. There will not be a land operation there any time soon. The US does not really care about the PKK but excuses to harm us are not good to hand out.

In the future, if the border regions are cleared of PKK you may see PKK forces concentrate at Maxmur and a more concrete arguement made for strikes or land attack. As it is, a handful of PKK there and yes, recruiting ground for PKK. Because the camp is embargoed and does not participate in Iraqi society so not much choice for people growing up in camp. But 1 kill and we have talk of violations of international and humanitarian laws. It is bad enough this Sedat Peker stuff is happening with an economy in Crisis. Biden continuing or increasing the sanctions would be really bad on the economy. Though it would help Erdogan of course.

 

[Anmdt]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1401229472372822020

A mistake before the meeting with Biden

They can start by warning countries which particularly mistreats refugees at sea and in their countries before warning Turkey who targets PKK rats hidden within a "refugee" camp.
The camp was established in 1990s while Kurdish people were running from Iraq, i really doubt if it is functional as a "refugee" camp in 2020. Probably a camp being used by PKK primarily for the disguise.

Makhmour camp is a camp of the PKK, disguising within civilians were not enough and they are eventually disguised within refugees.

Mahmur Kampı - Vikipedi

tr.wikipedia.org

Several members of the PKK come from this camp. A "Garden of the Martyrs" was established at the camp, where deceased PKK members are remembered.[1] Dutch state television NOS journalist Bram Vermeulen was among those who confirmed that Makhmur Camp was a PKK camp. 4 November 2012 "Langs de Grenzen van Turkije: Tussen twee Vuren Iraq" (Along the borders of Turkey, between two fire: Iraq) in the name of the program Makhmur Camp those in "This is a political camp. Our leader is Abdullah Öcalan. ''We are fighting our struggle here. We are all members of the PKK.''[12]

US should not protect PKK disguised within refugees, if those are refugess why do they have so called "martry" graveyard for PKK?

 

[Glass🚬]

Disagreed. The subject of Maxmur has come up many, many times for decades now. It is a UN protected camp that we have air striked several times for domestic gains in politics. The fact that it is a refugee camp of thousands from Turkey is not deniable. Those strikes kill maybe a handful of PKK over the years. There will not be a land operation there any time soon. The US does not really care about the PKK but excuses to harm us are not good to hand out.

In the future, if the border regions are cleared of PKK you may see PKK forces concentrate at Maxmur and a more concrete arguement made for strikes or land attack. As it is, a handful of PKK there and yes, recruiting ground for PKK. Because the camp is embargoed and does not participate in Iraqi society so not much choice for people growing up in camp. But 1 kill and we have talk of violations of international and humanitarian laws. It is bad enough this Sedat Peker stuff is happening with an economy in Crisis. Biden continuing or increasing the sanctions would be really bad on the economy. Though it would help Erdogan of course.

Im not here to discuss with you the drone strikes or makhmur, the PKK is active there and either the UN will get rid of them or we will. We dont have the patience anymore to let these things play out and result in direct Turkish casualities because the animals there continue to recruit and hide there.

The drone strike was the message, the ball is in the us court.

 

[Akhtar]

They can start by warning countries which particularly mistreats refugees at sea and in their countries before warning Turkey who targets PKK rats hidden within a "refugee" camp.
The camp was established in 1990s while Kurdish people were running from Iraq, i really doubt if it is functional as a "refugee" camp in 2020. Probably a camp being used by PKK primarily for the disguise.

Makhmour camp is a camp of the PKK, disguising within civilians were not enough and they are eventually disguised within refugees.

Mahmur Kampı - Vikipedi

tr.wikipedia.org

US should not protect PKK disguised within refugees, if those are refugess why do they have so called "martry" graveyard for PKK?

Running from Iraq ? it is quite clear they are refugees from Turkey.

Are you saying there are 10,000+ PKK members just chilling there in t-shirts and jeans near our borders? Lol

It is still functinonal as a refugee camp, it is still protected by UNHCR.

 

[Akhtar]

Im not here to discuss with you the drone strikes or makhmur, the PKK is active there and either the UN will get rid of them or we will. We dont have the patience anymore to let these things play out and result in direct Turkish casualities because the animals there continue to recruit and hide there.

The drone strike was the message, the ball is in the us court.

Look at our Syrian border, our border with Iran. Maxmur is just for domestic politics and you know it.

 

[Akhtar]

We will eliminate the PKK in Syria, in Iran and in Iraq and there is nothing u kurds can do about it.

Not Kurdish. I am saying the costs of this strike will outweigh the benefits, unless Erdogan plans a ground attack to clear it out. Erdogan mentioned this camp for domestic politics and that is why it happened. If there is no killing blow so to speak, what's the point ? the camp will continue, media says Erdogan attacking refugee camp. US may level additional sanctions or continue existing sanctions.

 

[Anmdt]

Running from Iraq ? it is quite clear they are refugees from Turkey.

Are you saying there are 10,000+ PKK members just chilling there in t-shirts and jeans near our borders? Lol

It is still functinonal as a refugee camp, it is still protected by UNHCR.

*That was my bad, running from the PKK conflict.

Then UNHCR should kick PKK away,
I don't see iSIS in other camps, and how would the coalition act if ISIS were recruiting and operating from a refugee camp in syria or near turkish border?

Explain the PKK graveyard and words of people calling ocalan their leader and mahmur as a camp of the PKK.

Hiding behind of the regufees is really cheap and inhuman, something PKK would do.

US has sufficient power on PKK to keep refugees there yet they prefer to protect PKK rats and give them a space for operation.

 

[Anmdt]

Not Kurdish. I am saying the costs of this strike will outweigh the benefits, unless Erdogan plans a ground attack to clear it out. Erdogan mentioned this camp for domestic politics and that is why it happened. If there is no killing blow so to speak, what's the point ? the camp will continue, media says Erdogan attacking refugee camp. US may level additional sanctions or continue existing sanctions.

It will also raise questions what the hell PKK doing in there, people are not dumb they are aware PKK uses that camp as a camouflage and base. I really doubt number of the actual refugees.

 

[GoatsMilk]

They can start by warning countries which particularly mistreats refugees at sea and in their countries before warning Turkey who targets PKK rats hidden within a "refugee" camp.
The camp was established in 1990s while Kurdish people were running from Iraq, i really doubt if it is functional as a "refugee" camp in 2020. Probably a camp being used by PKK primarily for the disguise.

Makhmour camp is a camp of the PKK, disguising within civilians were not enough and they are eventually disguised within refugees.

Mahmur Kampı - Vikipedi

tr.wikipedia.org

US should not protect PKK disguised within refugees, if those are refugess why do they have so called "martry" graveyard for PKK?

Turks need to operate from the complete understanding that the USA wants the PKK/Kurdistan project to succeed. So expecting them not to protect the terrorists is foolish.

Unfortunately failed politics from Turkey meant we got to see a KRG in iraq and a KRG part 2 in Syria, the ultimate goal to make a KRG from part of Turkey. To make matters worse this government allowed millions more separatist minded kurds to flee Syria into Turkey. Absolute madness.

What Turkey should be doing is finding everyway possible to smash the PKK while do everything to limit american influence and deployments in the region. The entire northern regions of Syria and Iraq must return into Turkish hands for the peace and prosperity of the region.

 

[Anmdt]

Turks need to operate from the complete understanding that the USA wants the PKK/Kurdistan project to succeed. So expecting them not to protect the terrorists is foolish.

Unfortunately failed politics from Turkey meant we got to see a KRG in iraq and a KRG part 2 in Syria, the ultimate goal to make a KRG from part of Turkey. To make matters worse this government allowed millions more separatist minded kurds to flee Syria into Turkey. Absolute madness.

What Turkey should be doing is finding everyway possible to smash the PKK while do everything to limit american influence and deployments in the region. The entire northern regions of Syria and Iraq must return into Turkish hands for the peace and prosperity of the region.

It is being done by a government who couldn't manage cuval incident and couldn't respond appropiately then.
So technically i don't have any hopes on the political side i know it will be a mess, while i trust Turkish Armed Forces and hope them to scoop PKK rats off and render them inoperable.

 

[Akhtar]

*That was my bad, running from the PKK conflict.

Then UNHCR should kick PKK away,
I don't see iSIS in other camps, and how would the coalition act if ISIS were recruiting and operating from a refugee camp in syria or near turkish border?

Explain the PKK graveyard and words of people calling ocalan their leader and mahmur as a camp of the PKK.

Hiding behind of the regufees is really cheap and inhuman, something PKK would do.

US has sufficient power on PKK to keep refugees there yet they prefer to protect PKK rats and give them a space for operation.

America Once Tried to Get Rid of This Refugee Camp. Now Turkey is Bombing It.

Makhmour was a headache during the Iraq War—and is still a symbol of chaotic U.S. policy in the region.

nationalinterest.org

I think this is a good summary. I think it was a mistake that this camp was not closed earlier on and very short-sighted from all sides. Since the PKK spread and took advantage of the conflict with ISIS, the entire camp of people see the PKK as saviours. But given the majority are civilians, what do you do ?

The camp first came up in September 2003, when Turkish chief of staff Gen. Hilmi Özkok told U.S. Amb. Eric Edelman that Turkey wanted to cooperate on resettling the camp’s refugees, according to cables written by Edelman.


Later that month, UNHCR representative Gesche Karrenbrock told Edelman that the camp’s residents did not see “signs that they are wanted back in Turkey.” She “stressed that there was a need to separate the true civilians in the camp from [PKK] militants.”


Edelman wrote to his superiors that U.S.-Turkish cooperation against the PKK was “essential to convincing the public and many of the elite that Turkish military participation in Iraq is in Turkey’s national interest.”


He recommended an effort to separate PKK elements from Makhmour’s general population, along with a “psyops campaign” aimed at the militants “with a firm message that the window for peaceful surrender is rapidly closing.”


Turkish, Iraqi, UN, and U.S. officials negotiated over Makhmour for the next several months. They eventually agreed to a preliminary deal to “close the camp and voluntarily repatriate its residents to Turkey” in January 2004.


“The deal fell through, however, because the Turks insisted that Secretary [of State Colin] Powell sign a letter of guarantee, including a commitment to take the steps necessary to stop [PKK] infiltration,” Edelman reported a year later. “We were not then (and likely are still not) in a position to provide such a guarantee to the Turks.”


Edelman did not respond to an email request for an interview, and the State Department does not comment on “purportedly leaked documents” as a matter of policy.


Makovsky, then a Democratic staffer on the House Foreign Affairs Committee, told the National Interest that “we were not going to send these people back to Turkey if there was any danger they were going to be mistreated.”


The cables from 2004 to 2010 read like a broken record.


Iraqi and U.S. officials attempted a variety of schemes to deal with the camp and its alleged PKK presence. They pressed Turkey to provide amnesty to accused PKK members, proposed resettling Kurdish refugees inside Iraq, looked at third countries to send the refugees to, and even raided the Makhmour camp to look for weapons and fighters.


Turkish officials always responded to the proposals with one question—why hadn’t the camp been closed yet?


General Joseph Ralston, special envoy for counter-PKK operations, reported to Congress in March 2007 that Turkey and Iraq were making “movement toward closure of the Makhmour refugee camp.”


Iraqi-Turkish negotiations broke down completely the next month. U.S. officials in Ankara and Adana later reported in a joint cable that Turkey had “decided it politically unsustainable to accept for resettlement such a large number of PKK sympathizers/supporters.”


And then Turkish troops directly invaded northern Iraq to hunt down the PKK in February 2008.


“We would have preferred it not happen,” Makovsky said. “In particular, there was suspicion of Turkey’s intention—whether it was simply to hit the PKK, or in fact to destabilize [Iraqi Kurdistan], the one part of Iraq that was stable, and in effect, a U.S. success story.”


There were small diplomatic breakthroughs in late 2009, when Iraqi and Turkish officials began to discuss Makhmour directly again.


Turkish officials asked Ambassador James Jeffrey, then U.S. Ambassador to Iraq and now special representative for counter-ISIS operations, for help “cutting off ties between the PKK and Makhmour Refugee Camp and returning those residents who wish to do so to Turkey” in February 2010.


Then the paper trail goes dark—the WikiLeaks cables end in 2010. The State Department did not respond to a question about the current U.S. position on Makhmour.

 

[Kartal1]

@Glass🚬 Refrain from personal attacks. Message deleted and warning is given.

 

[Glass🚬]

@Glass🚬 Refrain from personal attacks. Message deleted and warning is given.

meh. You better have a look at that guy too, I just started to have fun.

 

[Anmdt]

America Once Tried to Get Rid of This Refugee Camp. Now Turkey is Bombing It.

Makhmour was a headache during the Iraq War—and is still a symbol of chaotic U.S. policy in the region.

nationalinterest.org

I think this is a good summary. I think it was a mistake that this camp was not closed earlier on and very short-sighted from all sides. Since the PKK spread and took advantage of the conflict with ISIS, the entire camp of people see the PKK as saviours. But given the majority are civilians, what do you do ?

Warn international organizations on bureucratic level, issue a note for camp to be displaced at appropiate location under supervision of coalition and ask them to keep camp clean of recognized terrorist organizations.

Pretty easy for a country with government who can handle bureucracy. Hard for a country with bureucrats who doesn't understand a bit of bureucracy and politics.

 

[Akhtar]

It will also raise questions what the hell PKK doing in there, people are not dumb they are aware PKK uses that camp as a camouflage and base. I really doubt number of the actual refugees.

It is big enough to be seen from space:

The PKK took advantage of ISIS coming near the camp to attack ISIS and establish positions, same as with the Yezidi crisis. Given many of the camp are sympathetic to the PKK and are trapped in the camp, easy to recruit for the PKK. I think the northern iraq government IKBY also embargoed this camp so nobody is allowed into IKBY after the PKK assassinated a Turkish diplomat in Iraq. So recruitment into PKK is more likely.

 

[Kartal1]

meh. You better have a look at that guy too, I just started to have fun.

Everybody is free to express his opinions within the rules of the forum and I don't see a violation. I also think differently than him on some issues but what is the forum for? To express opinions, ideas and point of views. We may like it or not but that don't give us the right to attack personally. You are free to continue discussion.