Type 214TN REIS Class & Submarine Capabilities in the Eastern Mediterranean

[TheInsider]

Because U214 is an ill-designed submarine. It had stability and see keeping problems while diving and surfacing at steep angles. TN didn't accept the design at that condition so Germans offered to fix this with extra weight mounted on the old design. We rejected it and asked for a redesign. Germans objected to this telling us that it will be a big effort. We offered to redesign it ourselves with German oversight. The new design became longer and heavier.

 

[LegionnairE]

Because U214 is an ill-designed submarine. It had stability and see keeping problems while diving and surfacing at steep angles. TN didn't accept the design at that condition so Germans offered to fix this with extra weight mounted on the old design. We rejected it and asked for a redesign. Germans objected to this telling us that it will be a big effort. We offered to redesign it ourselves with German oversight. The new design became longer and heavier.

That's not really an answer to my question. Why is it so heavy? It's heavier than all of our Type-209s too. Are they also poorly designed?

 

[Huelague]

For me, our most important weapon (submarines). You can’t see, neither on land nor on see or air (including Spacer). Only possible detecting by sonar. Even this, only to a limited depth. Even in this case, they are not much weapons to destroy a submarine

We can strike on See, Air and Land targets on our sides. Still thinking in which process we are on IDAS.
Only negative points are, the speed of submarines. Maybe they can work on cavitation for submarines. And the price. For me, the deadliest weapon, which a Shipyard nation can have.

 

[TheInsider]

That's not really an answer to my question. Why is it so heavy? It's heavier than all of our Type-209s too. Are they also poorly designed?

It has stability problems at steep angles because of its gravity and lift centers. To overcome this problem submarine had to be lengthened so it got heavier. It is made of steel the longer it is the heavier it is. Rather than mounting useless weights as counterweights, we got a longer submarine with more space.

U-214 as a class is heavier than U-209 in its vanilla form so it is normal that our redesigned version is even heavier.

 

[LegionnairE]

@TheInsider

It's about the same weight as Type 209-1500

And what was causing the problem exactly? Too front-heavy due to torpedo tubes? Unlikely. Heavier engines? batteries? What was wrong with the center of gravity?

As counterweight couldn't we just change the position of the batteries, add more batteries, etc?

And how is the extra space being utilized?

 

[TheInsider]

It is caused by design/calculation mistakes while the sub was in design. Germans didn't realize it. The problem appeared when TN tested the sub at steeper diving/surfacing angles. In a normal diving/surfacing angle envelope sub behaves normally when you pass a certain angle sub loses stability. You are working in a limited space and repositioning elements in a sub is insanely difficult. It is a very cramped place. You need to change everything when moving something somewhere. If you ever visited a sub you see that there are pipes, vanes, vents, cables everywhere.

 

[Anmdt]

That's not really an answer to my question. Why is it so heavy? It's heavier than all of our Type-209s too. Are they also poorly designed?

The answer to your question:

TN has requested additional equipment and requirements from the sub and it has been re-designed with Turkish engineers, that required size/displacement to increase.
Meanwhile the increase in the size has resolved the stability issue that caused ship to have a dead-list under certain conditions which was earlier experienced by Greeks and Koreans, for the Greece a solution was found by Germans, Koreans introduced their own solution, Turks have known this issue and applied their solution on the design, by proving a space for the requirements.

It wasn't only the stability issue to be overseen, Turkish engineers also commonized the connections elements, hull support members to ease maintenance, a difference which has not been applied by koreans.
Meanwhile they did also detect the source of a noise which Greece and Korea had earlier been complaining of, and resolved it. A design modification was suggested by them and later applied by Germans.

Moreover it wasn't just bolt and nuts that turkish engineers have been through, they have overseen the design in details to suit it to Turkish Navy's requirements. The same stuff was also done for 209s in the past.

It is not 'heavier', it is bigger, specifically longer, thus it has more displacement. Comparison with Type 209 is pointless because 209 was already a matured design.

 

[corsair255]

Milden concept phase has been going on for a long time though. You can trace the first studies back to 2015.

Milli Denizaltı Çalıştayı yapıldı

Deniz Kuvvetleri Komutanlığından yapılan yazılı açıklamaya göre, Oramiral Bostanoğlu, İstanbul Tersanesi Komutanlığı Dizayn Proje Ofisi Müdürlüğü'nde düzenlenen Milli Denizaltı (MİLDEN) Çalıştayı'nda konuştu. - Anadolu Ajansı

www.aa.com.tr

MİLDEN projesi resmen başlatıldı | SavunmaSanayiST

Türk Deniz Kuvvetleri Komutanlığı’nın milli imkanlarla üretilmiş denizaltı gemileriyle teçhiz edilme

www.savunmasanayist.com

In fact, it goes back to much earlier dates, such as 2006-2007.

 

[corsair255]

The same stuff was also done for 209s in the past.

From the contributions made to the designs of the U-209s, from each produced/sold submarine, a certain share, albeit small, would come to Turkey (perhaps it still does). I remember that while the Gür class were being built, an income of about 3 million from the 209s was deducted from the project cost.

 

[Yasar_TR]

I think Turkish solution was an ingenious piece of simple thought process. Our design engineers simply moved the centre of gravity of the vessel by extending it 235cm. That resolved the issue of listing to one side.

 

[LegionnairE]

@Anmdt

Are we getting these?

Siemens presents the new variable BZM evo series for underwater applications | Press | Company | Siemens

Building on the success of the previous BZM34 and BZM120 fuel cell modules, Siemens aims to optimize the power density and user-friendliness of fuel ce ...

press.siemens.com

How much weight loss could this mean for our girl?

I'm not saying she's fat...


Also... what was the extra equipment TN requested?

 

[Super falcon 1983]

Based on u 214 i think these are more capable subs pak should join this project as turkey has rights to sell third party as well

 

[AzeriTank]

Based on u 214 i think these are more capable subs pak should join this project as turkey has rights to sell third party as well

Its German Tank. But you can go with stm 500 or ts 1700

 

[Manomed The Second]

Based on u 214 i think these are more capable subs pak should join this project as turkey has rights to sell third party as well

We can't sell something that is not ours. Its still a german product made for Turkish navy.