TR UAV/UCAV Programs | Anka - series | Kızılelma | TB - series

Zafer

Experienced member
Messages
4,683
Reactions
7 7,389
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
They moved the air inlets to the sides and picked an afterburning engine. New design is much more like a fighter.

I do share the same concern as @RadarGudumluMuhimmat about carrier operations. Wings do seem small, and I find it strange that there's no tail. In fact there are no control surfaces visible. No ailerons, no flaps...

My guess is that this is a preliminary design and it's going to change before the prototype stage.

I think a proper delta canard design would have much more wing area, much more lift and therefore better payload capacity. It would be easier to land on a ship.


"It will land on a carrier because S. Bayraktar said so" is a weak argument
The fuselage of MIUS has a noticeably wide body which contributes to lift especially under ground effect which can enable shorter overall wingspan that it seems to have now. There can be more design trade-offs to be made before the design is matured. The fact that MIUS can take off without help from a catapult system makes it more likely operable from TCG Anadolu.
MIUS concept design dates back to like 2016. MIUS is strategically important project. Different companies, institutions are involved with MIUS development. TAI probably will provide design assistance. TEI will develop engines. SAGE will help with integration of munitions. Universities help with developing AI etc.
Yes, in so many words. We all knew about it, Aselsan likely knew even earlier.
 
Last edited:
E

Era_shield

Guest
The fuselage of MIUS has a noticeably wide body which contributes to lift especially under ground effect which can enable shorter overall wingspan that it seems to have now. There can be more design trade-offs to be made before the design is matured. The fact that MIUS can take off without help from a catapult system makes it more likely operable from TCG Anadolu.

Yes, in so many words.
Yep, and it also depends a lot on its size which is hard to judge by eye. 3.5 ton MTOW is very light for a naval fighter, so if MIUS is anything close to fighter sized it would likely have very high lift to weight ratio in comparison.
 

Anmdt

Experienced member
Naval Specialist
Professional
Messages
5,540
Solutions
2
Reactions
119 25,147
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
May I ask how you guys get the idea that landing is not possible? On what knowledge is this based
I know the ship, i know the Navy's plan. Sufficient?

TB3 is permitted for a reason that they were offered a simple arrest and launch system which will not yield permanent modification.
MIUS will require a permanent wire arrest system which will extend from top deck to lower deck, occupy hangar space, block certain areas of the deck which is very useful for LHD operations.
Primary role of the vessel is being a LHD, it is best designed for STOVL operations, not STOBAR, making it STOBAR cancels an important portion of runway from helicopter operations.

Check arrest wire configurations on aircraft carriers and you will see they often have an inclined landing runway which diverts the landing plane away from the island and main runway and ensures a clearance at least wide as the plane. This is not so for Anadolu, a typical landing starts right where island starts, because of the stern elevator. Arrest wires would typically extend from a safe distance, and removed each time a plane takes off, stretched ones the new one is preparing for landing. This might give another idea why it is a bit slacking.

Landing on a ships is beyond Baykar's expertise and i am telling, they have taken none of the consultancy as of now on this matter, not even the simplest one, not even received some technical reports which is was used for possible F-35 operations. They make it on their own.

I have written on Naval Programs as well, Turkish Navy doesn't have any major force projection asset, Anadolu is the first, we should master it as a LHD before starting to play aircraft games. Anyone who has some insight would see amphibious operations matter as much as carrier operations.
Until then Baykar can play at the ground with arrest wires and ski-jumps imitating a carrier and place the plane on the future aircraft carrier once it is commissioned.

This is not something feasible but pure PR based reasons to talk about Anadolu at this stage. Baykar at the moment doesn't even bother about landing at Anadolu, the 3D model of Anadolu is a sufficient indicator for this, their primary goal is MIUS.

Saying 'if Selcuk says so,then it means he knows about this' also requires to accept whatever Celal Sengor says because he is smart, and if he says something it should be true, since he must have been researching about that. But this not the case, nobody takes him serious on the certain matters he keeps bragging.
 
L

LegionnairE

Guest
The fuselage of MIUS has a noticeably wide body which contributes to lift especially under ground effect which can enable shorter overall wingspan that it seems to have now. There can be more design trade-offs to be made before the design is matured. The fact that MIUS can take off without help from a catapult system makes it more likely operable from TCG Anadolu.

Yes, in so many words. We all knew about it, Aselsan likely knew even earlier.
it's not wide..

drones_1.jpg



This is wide
 

Cabatli_TR

Experienced member
Staff member
Administrator
Messages
5,360
Reactions
81 45,455
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
We do not have precise information about the dimensions of MIUS yet, so it is not possible for us to reach a definite conclusion about its size-related capabilities, but there are examples in the world that we can roughly compare, although the design lines are different. Based on these examples, we can make a rough dimensional analysis. Maybe the wingspan values can mislead us due to the different layouts but I still think this is the right one.

For example, the X-47B is a drone with a length of 11.6m and a wingspan of 18.9m. Its empty weight reaches 6350kg. When powered by the F100-220U, the weapon load becomes 2 tons and the 16000lb thrust on this engine increases the MTOW of this aircraft up to 20 tons. This engine delivers this hull to 0.8Mach speed and raise it to an altitude of 40000ft.


Neuron has a 9.5m long fuselage and 12.5m wingspan. Its empty weight reaches 4900kg. When powered by the RR Adour, the weapon load is around 1 ton and the 8900lb thrust increases the MTOW of this plane to 7 tons. This engine speeds up this hull to 0.8Mach and raises it to an altitude of 40000-45000ft.


When we look at the data we have about MIUS, we can roughly assume that a drone is being developed that can reach 40000ft, see subsonic and then supersonic speeds, carry a load of around 1.5 tons, and land and take off on TCG Anadolu type ships. As such, I think it will be positioned somewhere in the middle of Neuron and X47B in terms of engine power and size. In other words, it can appear as a fighter aircraft with a length of around 10-11m, wingspan of 12-14m and a turbofan powered by more than 8000-9000lb.

1626765527285_auto_x2-png.26200
 
E

Era_shield

Guest
TB3 is permitted for a reason that they were offered a simple arrest and launch system which will not yield permanent modification.

Landing on a ships is beyond Baykar's expertise and i am telling, they have taken none of the consultancy as of now on this matter, not even the simplest one, not even received some technical reports which is was used for possible F-35 operations. They make it on their own.
If the 1st paragraph is true, the 2nd is false.
 
L

LegionnairE

Guest
MIUS doesn't appear to have any STOVL capability, I don't see how the thrust can be directed downwards. If they make a STOVL version it would be good. But to be honest we don't need MIUS to land on TCG Anadolu,

Something like TB2 is more than enough, all TCG Anadolu needs is a UAV that can probe possible landing sites and provide CAS during landing operations.

This was what I said while F35B was being discussed. Too expensive and completely unnecessary.

The more I think about it, the less this thing makes sense
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Philips

Well-known member
Messages
359
Reactions
991
Nation of residence
Nethelands
Nation of origin
Netherlands
The ski jump width is half the beam of Anadolu. The MIUS is half the ski jump width. MIUS is therefore 8-9m wide and approx. 10-12 meters long.
 
Last edited:

Nutuk

Contributor
Think Tank Analyst
Messages
1,020
Reactions
8 3,645
Nation of residence
Nethelands
Nation of origin
Turkey
Again some people try to impose their opinions as true ones.

I myself cannot confirm or deny, I am electronics specialist not aerodynamic (Baykar is!)

I can only express my hopes that Baykar can pull this off. If we only listen to nay sayers we will never be able to produce stuff like TFx, TF2000 etc. etc.
 

Anmdt

Experienced member
Naval Specialist
Professional
Messages
5,540
Solutions
2
Reactions
119 25,147
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
If the 1st paragraph is true, the 2nd is false.
Nothing is false there read it accordingly.
One of them is about TB3, which is not consulted or studied yet, they permitted the 'concept' and time&money will spent towards there.
 

Anmdt

Experienced member
Naval Specialist
Professional
Messages
5,540
Solutions
2
Reactions
119 25,147
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Again some people try to impose their opinions as true ones.

I myself cannot confirm or deny, I am electronics specialist not aerodynamic (Baykar is!)

I can only express my hopes that Baykar can pull this off. If we only listen to nay sayers we will never be able to produce stuff like TFx, TF2000 etc. etc.
And landing at ships is more than just aerodynamics, more related to the naval architecture (hydrodynamics, ship motion, ship design, air wake) which is my profession.

I don't impose it though, just Because baykar or tai tells so, hurjet or mius won't be deployed at Anadolu. The final decision is up to navy, not to ssb, baykar or tai. If they approve, then it happens and as of now baykar has nothing with navy except the TB3 which is long to happen.
 

Philips

Well-known member
Messages
359
Reactions
991
Nation of residence
Nethelands
Nation of origin
Netherlands
The priorities are:
-Delivering TCG Anadolu as soon as possible
-Mastering primary amphibious role, operating attack helicopters and general purpose-airlift helicopters, ASW-ASuW helicopters.
-Mastering landing operations, in combination with LST, MAV, LCTs, SOF, Swimmer Delivery
-Mastering combined flotilla operations.
-Mastering simultaneous landing-take off, and command center duties.
No worries, the TN will have mastered all of this by the time the MIUS enters serial production.
 
L

LegionnairE

Guest
No worries, the TN will have mastered all of this by the time the MIUS enters serial production.
if what happened with the X47B is any indication of things... MIUS will take at least 5-6 years to mature.

IF there's going to be a naval version of it, that might take even longer and since this thing isn't STOVL there will have to be an arresing gear development parallel to this.. which is a whole different subject surrounded by many question marks.

As a land based system, I think the design is okay. I would still prefer a proper delta canard but Bayraktar likes weird wing designs.

Do we even know if the canards are going to generate any lift in level flight?
 

Philips

Well-known member
Messages
359
Reactions
991
Nation of residence
Nethelands
Nation of origin
Netherlands
Do we even know if the canards are going to generate any lift in level flight?
If you legit have these doubts about Baykar's capabilities after everything they've accomplished so far, then it is fruitless to try to convince the likes of you otherwise.
 
Last edited:

Follow us on social media

Top Bottom