TR UAV/UCAV Programs | Anka - series | Kızılelma | TB - series

[B_A]

So why call it ''mass production'' then?
''Seri üretim''

Baykar has a different view on what a prototype is. Mass production is misleading by standard wording I agree but I think they now consider the flying platform to be mature enough for LRIP.

In this post truth world of fighter jets, even F-35 still has not reached FRP with almost a thousand built aug 23..

''Mass production'' have different meaning for different company

For TOGG 80k per year is ''Mass production'' for TOYOTA or VW it must be 500K.

If KE 4-6/m i guess is ''Mass production''

 

[Agha Sher]

We have seen it take off and land,thats it.
Yet they decided to mass produce it.
With what engine,the underpowered Ukrainian engine?
Is there something we dont know?

I think it is very reasonable to assume that there is a lot we are not being told. I believe KE was assigned a high level of secrecy after the first few flights (i.e. election material).

We haven't really seen anything new on KE since the early videos. Even in recent months, they keep sharing old footage. We know for a fact that they are extremely focused on KE and dedicate a lot of effort.

 

[Sanchez]

''Mass production'' have different meaning for different company

For TOGG 80k per year is ''Mass production'' for TOYOTA or VW it must be 500K.

If KE 4-6/m i guess is ''Mass production''

4-6 frames per month is almost the speed the TB2s are being built. Make that 10-12/year for at least 2 years.
I also agree on KE basically being a tech demonstrator. I think to speed up the tech development phase they will build as many frames as they can, maybe up to 20 and work them side by side day and night. Only way it can mature enough in a short period of time. It'll be really expensive to do it, especially without financial support from HVKK. But it could work.

 

[Agha Sher]

4-6 frames per month is almost the speed the TB2s are being built. Make that 10-12/year for at least 2 years.
I also agree on KE basically being a tech demonstrator. I think to speed up the tech development phase they will build as many frames as they can, maybe up to 20 and work them side by side day and night. Only way it can mature enough in a short period of time. It'll be really expensive to do it, especially without financial support from HVKK. But it could work.

I believe TB2 is currently being built at 30-35 per month (according to statements from Baykar)

 

[YeşilVatan]

Regarding KE, I think the first batch that will be serially produced will act more as a testing platform than a true end product.

These things are going to be able to do A2A, and they are unmanned. Which means AI, which means lots of codes and a library (I think this is what it's called). They will be used like a '92 Renault 12 Toros, tested into oblivion in order for AI to be enough. Swarming capabilities, different scenarios, autonomous EW capabilities, dogfighting, ground bombing, BVR usage, baiting, whatever you can think of. It will take some years until KE's potential is fully realized. It is my firm belief that Baykar thinks the code will be the end product, not necessarily the plane.

While all this is happening, we will probably be able to test KE in various theatres. Maybe in a drone hunting mission, who knows. That would gather some attention. The Air force will probably come up with a whole new air warfare concept with it, just like we did with TB2 and air-ground warfare.

But the end product will be a swarm capable air supremacy asset. I had reservaions before, but the more I think on this, the more I see it as possible.

Or it will fail idk im not really an expert

 

[Sanchez]

I believe TB2 is currently being built at 30-35 per month (according to statements from Baykar)

probably true, haven't followed the monthly production numbers for a while, maybe misremembered.

 

[AWP]

They are the SpaceX of the defence world. Challenging the norms and doing what is perceived impossible.

In recent news we know that American companies could make a new manned fighter in less than 3 years. So it is not unexpected to see Kızılelma progress rapidly as a remote controlled unmanned fighter.

The Americans have decades of experience with aerospace and aviation that qualify them to make a drone 100x better than KE in the same timespan of KE.

SpaceX did extensive testing that took them around 4 years for the first successful launch before their first mission in 2012 and it was mini NASA cargo mission.

Baykar with 0 experience in the Jet and stealth business announcing that 2024 will deliver KE is utterly ridiculous.

 

[Agha Sher]

The Americans have decades of experience with aerospace and aviation that qualify them to make a drone 100x better than KE in the same timespan of KE.

SpaceX did extensive testing that took them around 4 years for the first successful launch before their first mission in 2012 and it was mini NASA cargo mission.

Baykar with 0 experience in the Jet and stealth business announcing that 2024 will deliver KE is utterly ridiculous.

I am sorry to say but typical Arab attitude. “If they can’t do it, how should we? If they do it, why should we?”

Baykar is taking market share from US drone manufacturers and is probably the LEADING drone manufacturer in the world. What Akinci can do, no other drone can do.

 

[AWP]

I am sorry to say but typical Arab attitude=

@Agha Sher @Angry Turk !!!

Lol, ethnicity ! is this where we going !!

 

[LIbyan Soldier]

I am sorry to say but typical Arab attitude. “If they can’t do it, how should we? If they do it, why should we?”

I confirm . Yeah sad but true

 

[YeşilVatan]

The Americans have decades of experience with aerospace and aviation that qualify them to make a drone 100x better than KE in the same timespan of KE.

SpaceX did extensive testing that took them around 4 years for the first successful launch before their first mission in 2012 and it was mini NASA cargo mission.

Baykar with 0 experience in the Jet and stealth business announcing that 2024 will deliver KE is utterly ridiculous.

Yet it was the Turkish drone doctrine that changed the course of 3-4 conflicts while Americans droned Afganistan to bits with no results. No one here is saying American's can't produce an absolute monster if they put work into it. They just don't. There are reasons for it.

USA had the technology and the means to produce something like that in their war on terror during 00s. If they utilized something like Turkey did, their invasions of both Iraq and Afghanistan would fare WAY better and cheaper. This docrinal stiffness partly originates from being the dominant superpower, but also from how their MIC operates. Their MIC is geared towards pleasing the Pentagon, the shareholders and PR people. This means they make very, very good stuff but achieve very little in doctrinal breaktroughs such as Turkish air-land drone warfare concept. Kızılelma is one such example. Air Force bigwigs insist manned aircraft is the centerpiece, and will continue to be for the next two decades. But is it? Or are they just change-averse?

The other thing is, US defence contractors have ZERO start-up energy. Everything goes through a commission. Their checks-and-balances system is good when it comes to filtering out useless stuff, so they manage to produce robust platforms, but it consumes A LOT of money. Putting aside the PPP problem, do you not think that the costs they have is not wildly overblown? And is it so hard to think that this might also be a problem when it comes to R&D timetables, too?

And lastly, US drone development was affected for at least a decade from acute politicization. Do you remember the "morality of drone strikes" debate? It was a huge thing in both later Bush years and also Obama years. If you were an Air Force decision maker, and you had the endless resources to do the same job but manned, would you not choose the non-drone option just to avoid politics of it? I strongly believe that's what they did, and it set US drone advancement at least a decade back.

Anyway, you are free to believe we are neanderthals who can't produce tech, but I suspect you wil be humbled in the future.

 

[AWP]

@YeşilVatan

I genuinely don't understand how you and others concluded this ( who can't produce tech ) notion here.

My criticism to Baykar that a company with no experience in a whole new sector for them just develop and deliver a unmanned stealth drone in just 3 years. this has nothing to do with Baykar only but with any company that make such a claim. I don't doubt Baykar ability to pull that off, but for such drone they need a long time and others help. from what I see, KE is just Akinci but with new body !

On the other hand TAI can be trusted with Anka-3 to deliver the expected. TAI have an aerospace manufacturing experience and most importantly they will use what they have learned in KAAN project into the Anka-3.

If the government hold a competition between TAI and Baykar for a drone that fit the same KE capability, honestly who would win ?

 

[Afif]

If the government hold a competition between TAI and Baykar for a drone that fit the same KE capability, honestly who would win ?

But they are NOT the same. KE and ANKA-3 offer different capabilities.

 

[AWP]

But they are NOT the same. KE and ANKA-3 offer different capabilities.

read again

 

[wolveray1]

Tbh Baykar will win.
Somehow Baykar kinda inspire confidence ,pionering spirit and can do attitude.
While Tai is an established company that need to go through a lot of bureaucracy to acheived it objective.

 

[Zafer]

Baykar's capabilities stacked up rapidly. Their intial success fueled their confidence to move faster. But they are not the only ones. Predator drone inventor Abraham Karem had told that in their early days they could put a drone togather in just 3 months. Standards at those times were non existent but still they were up to US military stabdards. So why not.

 

[boredaf]

@YeşilVatan

I genuinely don't understand how you and others concluded this ( who can't produce tech ) notion here.

My criticism to Baykar that a company with no experience in a whole new sector for them just develop and deliver a unmanned stealth drone in just 3 years. this has nothing to do with Baykar only but with any company that make such a claim. I don't doubt Baykar ability to pull that off, but for such drone they need a long time and others help. from what I see, KE is just Akinci but with new body !

On the other hand TAI can be trusted with Anka-3 to deliver the expected. TAI have an aerospace manufacturing experience and most importantly they will use what they have learned in KAAN project into the Anka-3.

If the government hold a competition between TAI and Baykar for a drone that fit the same KE capability, honestly who would win ?

What exactly is your argument here? They are experienced in drone technology, they made KE and it has been flying for months now? What is supposed to be the scam here? Oh, also, if you think it is just Akıncı with a new body, you need your eyes checked asap. Baykar's products also delivered what they promised so far, why would they fail with KE, because it is different?

Anka-3 hasn't even flown yet, and it is a completely new design for Tusas as well. Flying wing is not a simple thing, there is as much chance as Anka-3 failing as KE, if not more. Stop being biased against companies because of your politics, it is childish.

 

[Kitra]

My criticism to Baykar that a company with no experience in a whole new sector for them just develop and deliver a unmanned stealth drone in just 3 years.

The company which you state have zero experiance is the worlds BIGGEST drone manufacturer with the BEST drones in the world in their classes with both TB2 and Akinci being second to none. Both these drones can compete in capability with any american drone in their class, specifically if you consider price as well.

Then, you don't seem to understand what makes a good drone. The fuselage is just a small part of it with little to hide from prying eyes as we all know how the f22/f35/... looks like. However, the easily copied fuselage is not enough to make a good drone. You also need very good software, a large set of good ammunition, sensor, material knowledge for the fuselage and more. You also need political support and an agile company which can adopt to changing condition. Baykar has all this.

As a final word. You make a good product by producing a basic unit and then continuously improve on it by getting feedback from the user. this is called fast development cycle. Most aviation companies don't have it but Baykar have had this philosophy from day one.

 

[Anmdt]

So why call it ''mass production'' then?
''Seri üretim''

Sounds better than telling LRIP in turkish.
Same is done for other platforms or weapons by different companies as well, they mention of serial production -seri uretim- instead of LRIP.

 

[Sanchez]

Sounds better than telling LRIP in turkish.
Same is done for other platforms or weapons by different companies as well, they mention of serial production -seri uretim- instead of LRIP.

Tbh, if we do a deep dive, a majority of our products that start serial production are actually just LRIP whether it's vehicles, munitions, missiles, etc.