TR UAV/UCAV Programs | Anka - series | Kızılelma | TB - series

[Tornadoss]

Selçuk Bayraktar'dan KIZILELMA-A için seri üretim açıklaması

Baykar Yönetim Kurulu Başkanı Selçuk Bayraktar, KIZILELMA-A İnsansız Savaş Uçağı için seri üretim çalışmalarının başladığını açıkladı.

www.savunmasanayist.com

Baykar Chairman of the Board Selçuk Bayraktar announced that the mass production work for the KIZILELMA-A Unmanned Fighter Aircraft has begun.

regarding the supersonic version of Turkey's first unmanned fighter aircraft Bayraktar KIZILELMA Selçuk Bayraktar:

“We are also designing that variant in the coming years. Development activities continue, but we are currently preparing the first variant, the non-supersonic variant, which we call KIZILELMA-A, for mass production.”

What about the subsystems? Radar, EOTS, I am not sure they are ready.

 

[Agha Sher]

Selçuk Bayraktar'dan KIZILELMA-A için seri üretim açıklaması

Baykar Yönetim Kurulu Başkanı Selçuk Bayraktar, KIZILELMA-A İnsansız Savaş Uçağı için seri üretim çalışmalarının başladığını açıkladı.

www.savunmasanayist.com

Baykar Chairman of the Board Selçuk Bayraktar announced that the mass production work for the KIZILELMA-A Unmanned Fighter Aircraft has begun.

regarding the supersonic version of Turkey's first unmanned fighter aircraft Bayraktar KIZILELMA Selçuk Bayraktar:

“We are also designing that variant in the coming years. Development activities continue, but we are currently preparing the first variant, the non-supersonic variant, which we call KIZILELMA-A, for mass production.”

Earlier he stated that mass production would occur in 2024 (probably H1). That seems to be the case.

however, many valid concerns persist. Hopefully our concerns is due to that KE has entered a phase of secrecy.

Concerns;

1. Murad AESA radar is yet to fly, even on Akinci. (Only ground tests have been done)
2. We’ve only seen the first prototype fly
3. No munition test has been made public
4. Domestic A2A missiles have not even been fired from Akinci. Unlikely they have been even integrated with KE
5. Focus should be on KE-B. KE-A will most likely only be procured in small numbers

 

[Afif]

Honestly, I think it will have the same fate as Akinci with TurAF. Probably will be procured in small numbers. However, it could have better success at export.
Sometime it doesn’t matter how good the system is. If relevant party does not require it in numbers, they don’t procure it.

When it comes to the concept of MUM T, KE is not here nor there.
Meaning, even though it is an unmanned system it is too expensive to be expendable loyal wingman.

On the other hand, TUSAS new Autonomous Wingman Concept (OKU) seems to fit of role of MUM-T better with KAAN as it is smaller, cheaper and expandable.

Anyway, these are just my thoughts. I am happy to be proven wrong.

 

[uçuyorum]

Honestly, I think it will have the same fate as Akinci with TurAF. Probably will be procured in small numbers. However, it could have better success at export.
Sometime it doesn’t matter how good the system is. If relevant party does not require it in numbers, they don’t procure it.

When it comes to the concept of MUM T, KE is not here nor there.
Meaning, even though it is an unmanned system it is too expensive to be expendable loyal wingman.

On the other hand, TUSAS new Autonomous Wingman Concept (OKU) seems to fit of role of MUM-T better with KAAN as it is smaller, cheaper and expandable.

Anyway, these are just my thoughts. I am happy to be proven wrong.

Military procurement and planning is a difficult process. Moreso for us. We can't only think if a platform looks good we buy a 100 right now. We have to consider maintainability and availability, current capabilities and how it will hold up in future in 10 years, how will it be modernized etc. We have very tight budgets so we have to be very selective. It is also important not to buy one of everything like some airforces do, you need infrastructure for each platform you buy and personnel trained specifically for it. Buying one of a single platform gives you advantages in commonality: our pilots can be certain they will have spare parts and technicians for F16 in any air base they land. If you had one squadron of Rafale another one of eurofighter on another base and f15 on one that sounds cool but you are actually wasting a lot of resources buying redundant stuff. For each of those you have different munitions, different simulators, different trainers. It's similar for all complicated platforms. I think Anka 3 with its full stealth design will be more suitable for our needs as well and more futureproof, though I also think it would be cool to have a good number of KE. I imagine Navy would appreciate the capability more.

 

[boredaf]

Meaning, even though it is an unmanned system it is too expensive to be expendable loyal wingman.

On the other hand, TUSAS new Autonomous Wingman Concept (OKU) seems to fit of role of MUM-T better with KAAN as it is smaller, cheaper and expandable.

You need to provide some source for these two claims because there is no way in hell Anka-3, a flying wing drone, would be cheaper than KE. And Tusas does not have another drone suitable for the task, nor they look like they are going to have another in the near future.

And after the supersonic variant you are definitely going to be proven wrong, maybe even before that. Because no matter what its price is, KE will always going to be cheaper and easier to produce than Kaan. And it is quite literally the only drone of its kind we can get, no one would sell us anything that is even remotely close to it. So, Turkish Airforce will definitely get it once its ready and I'm willing to be quite a lot that there will be more KE in TurAf inventory than Kaan, much more.

 

[AWP]

Baykar Chairman of the Board Selçuk Bayraktar announced that the mass production work for the KIZILELMA-A Unmanned Fighter Aircraft has begun.

Lol, from first flight to mass production in 2 years !

KE is a scam so does Baykar , If the decision makers are patriotic I would transfer the crucial projects related to TSK from Baykar project to TAI , and leave Baykar with international market.

 

[TR_123456]

Selçuk Bayraktar'dan KIZILELMA-A için seri üretim açıklaması

Baykar Yönetim Kurulu Başkanı Selçuk Bayraktar, KIZILELMA-A İnsansız Savaş Uçağı için seri üretim çalışmalarının başladığını açıkladı.

www.savunmasanayist.com

Baykar Chairman of the Board Selçuk Bayraktar announced that the mass production work for the KIZILELMA-A Unmanned Fighter Aircraft has begun.

regarding the supersonic version of Turkey's first unmanned fighter aircraft Bayraktar KIZILELMA Selçuk Bayraktar:

“We are also designing that variant in the coming years. Development activities continue, but we are currently preparing the first variant, the non-supersonic variant, which we call KIZILELMA-A, for mass production.”

We have seen it take off and land,thats it.
Yet they decided to mass produce it.
With what engine,the underpowered Ukrainian engine?
Is there something we dont know?

 

[Agha Sher]

Lol, from first flight to mass production in 2 years !

KE is a scam so does Baykar , If the decision makers are patriotic I would transfer the crucial projects related to TSK from Baykar project to TAI , and leave Baykar with international market.

Why do we have to keep reminding people that Baykar is not a traditional defence company but a fast moving tech scale-up. They are the SpaceX of the defence world. Challenging the norms and doing what is perceived impossible.

They were record breaking with Akinci as well. Calling KE a scam is outright ridiculous.

 

[Zafer]

Lol, from first flight to mass production in 2 years !

KE is a scam so does Baykar , If the decision makers are patriotic I would transfer the crucial projects related to TSK from Baykar project to TAI , and leave Baykar with international market.

It is the work toward mass production that is starting. The first Kızılelma to join the air force will probably be ready in a year so. In recent news we know that American companies could make a new manned fighter in less than 3 years. So it is not unexpected to see Kızılelma progress rapidly as a remote controlled unmanned fighter.

 

[B_A]

It is the work toward mass production that is starting. The first Kızılelma to join the air force will probably be ready in a year so. In recent news we know that American companies could make a new manned fighter in less than 3 years. So it is not unexpected to see Kızılelma progress rapidly as a remote controlled unmanned fighter.

If KE and Hurjet are good enough,can we neednt to buy 40 F-16V?

 

[Zafer]

If KE and Hurjet are good enough,can we neednt to buy 40 F-16V?

Maybe 2 Kızılelma and 1 Hürjet can do the jon of an F16 I guess. We haven't yet seen their capabilities.

 

[B_A]

Maybe 2 Kızılelma and 1 Hürjet can do the jon of an F16 I guess. We haven't yet seen their capabilities.

The 40 F-16V are now looks like the EU VISA free for TR citizen,promise and promise,talk and talk but never come

 

[Afif]

You need to provide some source for these two claims because there is no way in hell Anka-3, a flying wing drone, would be cheaper than KE. And Tusas does not have another drone suitable for the task, nor they look like they are going to have another in the near future.

Where did I talk about ANKA-3?

KE will always going to be cheaper and easier to produce than Kaan.

That does not necessarily makes it expandable.
Anyway, I think you misunderstood what I wrote.

 

[Anmdt]

We have seen it take off and land,thats it.
Yet they decided to mass produce it.
With what engine,the underpowered Ukrainian engine?
Is there something we dont know?

It will be a LRIP, we shouldn't expect a large scale mass production as in others. 2 to 3 months per aircraft. Assuming that neither Ukrainians will be able to deliver engines at that rate, this is likely the LRIP to conduct extensive tests within TurAF until TF-6000 and other components get ready.

 

[Afif]

Military procurement and planning is a difficult process. Moreso for us. We can't only think if a platform looks good we buy a 100 right now. We have to consider maintainability and availability, current capabilities and how it will hold up in future in 10 years, how will it be modernized etc. We have very tight budgets so we have to be very selective. It is also important not to buy one of everything like some airforces do, you need infrastructure for each platform you buy and personnel trained specifically for it. Buying one of a single platform gives you advantages in commonality: our pilots can be certain they will have spare parts and technicians for F16 in any air base they land. If you had one squadron of Rafale another one of eurofighter on another base and f15 on one that sounds cool but you are actually wasting a lot of resources buying redundant stuff. For each of those you have different munitions, different simulators, different trainers. It's similar for all complicated platforms. I think Anka 3 with its full stealth design will be more suitable for our needs as well and more futureproof, though I also think it would be cool to have a good number of KE. I imagine Navy would appreciate the capability more.

Exactly, very well said.

 

[TR_123456]

It will be a LRIP, we shouldn't expect a large scale mass production as in others. 2 to 3 months per aircraft. Assuming that neither Ukrainians will be able to deliver engines at that rate, this is likely the LRIP to conduct extensive tests within TurAF until TF-6000 and other components get ready.

So why call it ''mass production'' then?
''Seri üretim''

 

[Zafer]

I don't want the 40 F16, I want the Kızılelma on fast track. And the TF6K engine to come online to power the following supersonic KE and Anka3 and possible others.

 

[Sanchez]

Baykar has a different view on what a prototype is. Mass production is misleading by standard wording I agree but I think they now consider the flying platform to be mature enough for LRIP.

In this post truth world of fighter jets, even F-35 still has not reached FRP with almost a thousand built by aug 23..

 

[Rodeo]

Honestly, I see both KE and ANKA-3 as technology demonstrators. To advance our knowledge base regarding both unstable and low RCS aircrafts. I expect the products that are based on these platforms to be vastly different from the early prototypes(in 5 years or more). Our experience in designing and building these drones, the required state of the art subcomponents and the needs of the end users have to mature a bit, imo.

 

[Bürküt]

We have seen it take off and land,thats it.
Yet they decided to mass produce it.
With what engine,the underpowered Ukrainian engine?
Is there something we dont know?

We all know how Baykar flexible compared to TAI.They produce the A model in limited numbers as in Akıncı.We procure the necessary critical subsystems from countries such as UK , Italy, where we have good relations.We use Adour engine instead of Al322. We use Raven radar until Murad radar arrives. For air and ground attack, we temporarily mount Aselpod under the fuselage.This is the only way I can think of.

Adour

Continuous evolution

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Raven ES-05

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