TR UAV/UCAV Programs | Anka - series | Kızılelma | TB - series

[Sanchez]

Big mistake thinking like that. Tell that all the big empires that died. Nukes are a must. There is no "to big to fail/die" never was and never will.

Too long of a timeframe, we should be working on it NOW.

Perhaps we should, since deterrence in the space of chemical and biological weapons doesn't work like nuclear deterrence.
Nuclear explosions are infinitely more flashy(ha!) events, with everyone knowing who packs what, its more likely a party that uses nukes won't be able to dodge the consequences.
But a competent biological attack is near-untraceable. Thus exponentially increasing the chances of an attack.

In short: M.A.D doctrine is incompatible with chemical and biological weapons. You either have them or you WILL get rekt by them.

I'm not saying what should happen. I'm saying what will happen. Turkey won't go for nukes before Iran reaches missile quality nukes. I don't have any idea on a possible Turkish program. Also don't know if there are guarantees by others or anything. Just that if need be they will spend %10 of GDP in a year to get them, any way possible. We don't do preventative maintenance lol.

Turkey also won't go for biological or chemical weapons. I also don't agree on the deterrence provided by such weapons being important. All users of it either also have nukes or are failed states, for a reason.

 

[Heartbang]

I'm not saying what should happen. I'm saying what will happen.

And I'm saying, in my opinion, its wrong. :/

 

[Sanchez]

And I'm saying, in my opinion, its wrong. :/

My brother in Allah, we can't even clear Tal Rıfat from terrorists. Our economy is not closed off and is fully dependent on imports and exports. Turkey literally going rogue with a nuclear program is one way to lose at least 50% of your economy in a year. We can't afford to go nuclear before a clear present danger is in front of us that we can show others that we need it as well to exist as a state. Think of it like a casus belli.

And we muddied up this thread long enough.

 

[Heartbang]

And we muddied up this thread long enough.

There are ways around those things you mentioned, but I shant be muddying this thread any longer. DM me if you'd like.

 

[Oublious]

Nothing sorry.....

 

[LIbyan Soldier]

Unlike Akıncı, Tapas is twin Rotax powered, similar to Aksungur. Though it does indeed look similar to Anka per payload capacity.

It's pretty much wrong this was its 2nd test flight though. In june, they announced its 200th test flight.

Why is Anka not famous as tb2 ? Although it is better in terms of payload and range

 

[Agha Sher]

Why is Anka not famous as tb2 ? Although it is better in terms of payload and range

It is a lot more expensive and not a dispensable asset. Anka played a crucial role in the Syria campaign enabling TB2 to operate.

Also, I think ownership plays a role. TAI being a state-owned company was not ready to capitalize on the success of the Syria campaign commercially. On top, TAI has a lot more important projects to focus on than marketing and selling Anka. Baykar on the other hand must sell TB2 and now Akinci to survive as a company, hence they are a lot more aggressive commercially and more agile to exploit opportunities.

 

[Zafer]

Why is Anka not famous as tb2 ? Although it is better in terms of payload and range

TB2 is compact and easier for ground handling while Anka is large and cumbersome for handling which matters for quick turnaround. Also Anka needs a ground radar for landing while TB2 doesn't afaik.

 

[Cenkcnk]

Tb2 is cheaper so many countries could afford it

 

[Bürküt]

Selçuk Bayraktar'dan KIZILELMA-A için seri üretim açıklaması

Baykar Yönetim Kurulu Başkanı Selçuk Bayraktar, KIZILELMA-A İnsansız Savaş Uçağı için seri üretim çalışmalarının başladığını açıkladı.

www.savunmasanayist.com

Baykar Chairman of the Board Selçuk Bayraktar announced that the mass production work for the KIZILELMA-A Unmanned Fighter Aircraft has begun.

regarding the supersonic version of Turkey's first unmanned fighter aircraft Bayraktar KIZILELMA Selçuk Bayraktar:

“We are also designing that variant in the coming years. Development activities continue, but we are currently preparing the first variant, the non-supersonic variant, which we call KIZILELMA-A, for mass production.”

 

[Tornadoss]

Selçuk Bayraktar'dan KIZILELMA-A için seri üretim açıklaması

Baykar Yönetim Kurulu Başkanı Selçuk Bayraktar, KIZILELMA-A İnsansız Savaş Uçağı için seri üretim çalışmalarının başladığını açıkladı.

www.savunmasanayist.com

Baykar Chairman of the Board Selçuk Bayraktar announced that the mass production work for the KIZILELMA-A Unmanned Fighter Aircraft has begun.

regarding the supersonic version of Turkey's first unmanned fighter aircraft Bayraktar KIZILELMA Selçuk Bayraktar:

“We are also designing that variant in the coming years. Development activities continue, but we are currently preparing the first variant, the non-supersonic variant, which we call KIZILELMA-A, for mass production.”

What about the subsystems? Radar, EOTS, I am not sure they are ready.

 

[Agha Sher]

Selçuk Bayraktar'dan KIZILELMA-A için seri üretim açıklaması

Baykar Yönetim Kurulu Başkanı Selçuk Bayraktar, KIZILELMA-A İnsansız Savaş Uçağı için seri üretim çalışmalarının başladığını açıkladı.

www.savunmasanayist.com

Baykar Chairman of the Board Selçuk Bayraktar announced that the mass production work for the KIZILELMA-A Unmanned Fighter Aircraft has begun.

regarding the supersonic version of Turkey's first unmanned fighter aircraft Bayraktar KIZILELMA Selçuk Bayraktar:

“We are also designing that variant in the coming years. Development activities continue, but we are currently preparing the first variant, the non-supersonic variant, which we call KIZILELMA-A, for mass production.”

Earlier he stated that mass production would occur in 2024 (probably H1). That seems to be the case.

however, many valid concerns persist. Hopefully our concerns is due to that KE has entered a phase of secrecy.

Concerns;

1. Murad AESA radar is yet to fly, even on Akinci. (Only ground tests have been done)
2. We’ve only seen the first prototype fly
3. No munition test has been made public
4. Domestic A2A missiles have not even been fired from Akinci. Unlikely they have been even integrated with KE
5. Focus should be on KE-B. KE-A will most likely only be procured in small numbers

 

[Afif]

Honestly, I think it will have the same fate as Akinci with TurAF. Probably will be procured in small numbers. However, it could have better success at export.
Sometime it doesn’t matter how good the system is. If relevant party does not require it in numbers, they don’t procure it.

When it comes to the concept of MUM T, KE is not here nor there.
Meaning, even though it is an unmanned system it is too expensive to be expendable loyal wingman.

On the other hand, TUSAS new Autonomous Wingman Concept (OKU) seems to fit of role of MUM-T better with KAAN as it is smaller, cheaper and expandable.

Anyway, these are just my thoughts. I am happy to be proven wrong.

 

[uçuyorum]

Honestly, I think it will have the same fate as Akinci with TurAF. Probably will be procured in small numbers. However, it could have better success at export.
Sometime it doesn’t matter how good the system is. If relevant party does not require it in numbers, they don’t procure it.

When it comes to the concept of MUM T, KE is not here nor there.
Meaning, even though it is an unmanned system it is too expensive to be expendable loyal wingman.

On the other hand, TUSAS new Autonomous Wingman Concept (OKU) seems to fit of role of MUM-T better with KAAN as it is smaller, cheaper and expandable.

Anyway, these are just my thoughts. I am happy to be proven wrong.

Military procurement and planning is a difficult process. Moreso for us. We can't only think if a platform looks good we buy a 100 right now. We have to consider maintainability and availability, current capabilities and how it will hold up in future in 10 years, how will it be modernized etc. We have very tight budgets so we have to be very selective. It is also important not to buy one of everything like some airforces do, you need infrastructure for each platform you buy and personnel trained specifically for it. Buying one of a single platform gives you advantages in commonality: our pilots can be certain they will have spare parts and technicians for F16 in any air base they land. If you had one squadron of Rafale another one of eurofighter on another base and f15 on one that sounds cool but you are actually wasting a lot of resources buying redundant stuff. For each of those you have different munitions, different simulators, different trainers. It's similar for all complicated platforms. I think Anka 3 with its full stealth design will be more suitable for our needs as well and more futureproof, though I also think it would be cool to have a good number of KE. I imagine Navy would appreciate the capability more.

 

[boredaf]

Meaning, even though it is an unmanned system it is too expensive to be expendable loyal wingman.

On the other hand, TUSAS new Autonomous Wingman Concept (OKU) seems to fit of role of MUM-T better with KAAN as it is smaller, cheaper and expandable.

You need to provide some source for these two claims because there is no way in hell Anka-3, a flying wing drone, would be cheaper than KE. And Tusas does not have another drone suitable for the task, nor they look like they are going to have another in the near future.

And after the supersonic variant you are definitely going to be proven wrong, maybe even before that. Because no matter what its price is, KE will always going to be cheaper and easier to produce than Kaan. And it is quite literally the only drone of its kind we can get, no one would sell us anything that is even remotely close to it. So, Turkish Airforce will definitely get it once its ready and I'm willing to be quite a lot that there will be more KE in TurAf inventory than Kaan, much more.

 

[AWP]

Baykar Chairman of the Board Selçuk Bayraktar announced that the mass production work for the KIZILELMA-A Unmanned Fighter Aircraft has begun.

Lol, from first flight to mass production in 2 years !

KE is a scam so does Baykar , If the decision makers are patriotic I would transfer the crucial projects related to TSK from Baykar project to TAI , and leave Baykar with international market.

 

[TR_123456]

Selçuk Bayraktar'dan KIZILELMA-A için seri üretim açıklaması

Baykar Yönetim Kurulu Başkanı Selçuk Bayraktar, KIZILELMA-A İnsansız Savaş Uçağı için seri üretim çalışmalarının başladığını açıkladı.

www.savunmasanayist.com

Baykar Chairman of the Board Selçuk Bayraktar announced that the mass production work for the KIZILELMA-A Unmanned Fighter Aircraft has begun.

regarding the supersonic version of Turkey's first unmanned fighter aircraft Bayraktar KIZILELMA Selçuk Bayraktar:

“We are also designing that variant in the coming years. Development activities continue, but we are currently preparing the first variant, the non-supersonic variant, which we call KIZILELMA-A, for mass production.”

We have seen it take off and land,thats it.
Yet they decided to mass produce it.
With what engine,the underpowered Ukrainian engine?
Is there something we dont know?

 

[Agha Sher]

Lol, from first flight to mass production in 2 years !

KE is a scam so does Baykar , If the decision makers are patriotic I would transfer the crucial projects related to TSK from Baykar project to TAI , and leave Baykar with international market.

Why do we have to keep reminding people that Baykar is not a traditional defence company but a fast moving tech scale-up. They are the SpaceX of the defence world. Challenging the norms and doing what is perceived impossible.

They were record breaking with Akinci as well. Calling KE a scam is outright ridiculous.

 

[Zafer]

Lol, from first flight to mass production in 2 years !

KE is a scam so does Baykar , If the decision makers are patriotic I would transfer the crucial projects related to TSK from Baykar project to TAI , and leave Baykar with international market.

It is the work toward mass production that is starting. The first Kızılelma to join the air force will probably be ready in a year so. In recent news we know that American companies could make a new manned fighter in less than 3 years. So it is not unexpected to see Kızılelma progress rapidly as a remote controlled unmanned fighter.

 

[B_A]

It is the work toward mass production that is starting. The first Kızılelma to join the air force will probably be ready in a year so. In recent news we know that American companies could make a new manned fighter in less than 3 years. So it is not unexpected to see Kızılelma progress rapidly as a remote controlled unmanned fighter.

If KE and Hurjet are good enough,can we neednt to buy 40 F-16V?