Huelague
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Right. But during an „aggressive maneuver“, I didn’t knew it, that was a common practice.
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India and Pakistan are Sending Turkish and Israeli Drones to War
Both India and Pakistan are armed to the teeth with a variety of lethal drones, including the Harop and TB2.
nationalinterest.org
Turkish TB2 and Aknci drones were present in Pakistan-India war recently.
A lot of bad publicity is coming from Indian generated media about them.
But are there any impartial evaluation about how they performed and if their performance were substandard as claimed, were there any reasons why?
We all know that in airspaces where there are highly efficient AD systems, these drones are useless. They are also no good against interceptor fighter jets. (You can’t send boys to do a man’s job).
In airspaces like Syria, Libya, Afghanistan and Karabagh where the airspace is void of modern AD and the area in question is within LOS, these type of drones perform well. But when it comes to longer distances and satellite communication is needed and there are no EW to help them out they become vulnerable.
They are not Swiss Knives that can be used everywhere.
Any further insight?
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Who cares what the Indian press says? They are the least reliable source of information.India and Pakistan are Sending Turkish and Israeli Drones to War
Both India and Pakistan are armed to the teeth with a variety of lethal drones, including the Harop and TB2.
Turkish TB2 and Aknci drones were present in Pakistan-India war recently.
A lot of bad publicity is coming from Indian generated media about them.
But are there any impartial evaluation about how they performed and if their performance were substandard as claimed, were there any reasons why?
We all know that in airspaces where there are highly efficient AD systems, these drones are useless. They are also no good against interceptor fighter jets. (You can’t send boys to do a man’s job).
In airspaces like Syria, Libya, Afghanistan and Karabagh where the airspace is void of modern AD and the area in question is within LOS, these type of drones perform well. But when it comes to longer distances and satellite communication is needed and there are no EW to help them out they become vulnerable.
They are not Swiss Knives that can be used everywhere.
Any further insight?
India has a lot of annoying people and they are making bullshit propaganda along side the pro-Israel American neo-cons like Michael Rubin to degrade Turkey's reputation as an arms seller.India and Pakistan are Sending Turkish and Israeli Drones to War
Both India and Pakistan are armed to the teeth with a variety of lethal drones, including the Harop and TB2.
Turkish TB2 and Aknci drones were present in Pakistan-India war recently.
A lot of bad publicity is coming from Indian generated media about them.
But are there any impartial evaluation about how they performed and if their performance were substandard as claimed, were there any reasons why?
We all know that in airspaces where there are highly efficient AD systems, these drones are useless. They are also no good against interceptor fighter jets. (You can’t send boys to do a man’s job).
In airspaces like Syria, Libya, Afghanistan and Karabagh where the airspace is void of modern AD and the area in question is within LOS, these type of drones perform well. But when it comes to longer distances and satellite communication is needed and there are no EW to help them out they become vulnerable.
They are not Swiss Knives that can be used everywhere.
Any further insight?
Neither TB2 nor Akinci were shot down or lost in any way; the only Turkish drones that seem to have taken part in the operation are the YIHA-III and the Asisguard Sogar drones.
This article, written by a former pilot of the Indian Air Force for Eurasian Times, claims that Pakistan launched between 400 and 500 drones in a coordinated reconnaissance and SIGINT operation, designed to trigger Indian air defence systems into activating radars and launching interceptors. This allowed Pakistani planners to map Indian AD assets and gather critical electromagnetic data.
This seems to hint at the fact that they were expecting the attack to fail, but I'm not entirely sure about that personally, since 400 to 500 drones is a large number, and at least three to four YIHA-III had gone crash-landed before entering Indian territory.
The early reports indicate that most drones were likely Sogar drones rather than YIHA-III, and I'm unsure if the Sogar was ever developed for the intended use that Pakistan had in mind.
I'm more concerned about India's media's claim that they killed two Turkish citizens during the operation. Still, I can't find anything about the topic in Turkish or international news coverage, just stupid Indian media that doesn't give a source and always claims that Pakistan is hiding the truth.
Can someone find any information on the Turkish citizens, or is it just more propaganda?
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YIHA-III is an extremely cheap drone. It is basically a pipe with wings, and it has the cheapest pipe, wing, and propeller you can get. I wouldn't be surprised if unit price is something like 5k USD.
GoatsMilk
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First time I've heard of such a thing.
This article claims that the Turks were the ones who planned out everything, and it was the Turks who were operating the drones.
I think this was the original source of the claim. Still, the person who wrote it seems does article seems to be on crazy levels of delusional since they claim that the only reason that Turkey can produce drones on mass scale is because of its trade with India.
IC3M@N FX
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Turkey is not obliged to support India – especially not as long as the Indian government pursues a policy that has shown increasing hostility toward Muslims for years, even toward very moderate believers within the country.
In the current conflict, it must be said in all honesty that the responsibility does not lie solely with India – Pakistan also bears some responsibility. However, the escalation of the situation clearly originated with the Indian government, whose domestic and foreign policy is characterized by a confrontational attitude. The reactions to this must be viewed against this background.
India describes itself as the world's largest democracy. At the same time, a caste system persists there that systematically discriminates against many people, in some cases in ways that can be perceived as inhumane and racist. This social reality contradicts the fundamental values of a liberal democracy in many respects.
It's a flaw in the system, and when a society treats its own people badly, you can't expect it to treat others any better.
While Western countries such as France, the US, and Russia equip India with modern military technology and weapons, any support for Pakistan by Turkey is criticized. This one-sided view reveals a clear double standard. Ultimately, all these decisions – whether in Washington, New Delhi, or Ankara – are a matter of sober interest politics. Those who engage in conflicts must expect to face the consequences and cannot complain about backlashes afterwards.
Furthermore, it is important to emphasize that India is itself arming Armenia and entering into strategic cooperation with Greece and Israel—all countries whose positions often run counter to Turkish interests. These developments are not new, but part of a long-term geopolitical orientation.
In the current conflict, it must be said in all honesty that the responsibility does not lie solely with India – Pakistan also bears some responsibility. However, the escalation of the situation clearly originated with the Indian government, whose domestic and foreign policy is characterized by a confrontational attitude. The reactions to this must be viewed against this background.
India describes itself as the world's largest democracy. At the same time, a caste system persists there that systematically discriminates against many people, in some cases in ways that can be perceived as inhumane and racist. This social reality contradicts the fundamental values of a liberal democracy in many respects.
It's a flaw in the system, and when a society treats its own people badly, you can't expect it to treat others any better.
While Western countries such as France, the US, and Russia equip India with modern military technology and weapons, any support for Pakistan by Turkey is criticized. This one-sided view reveals a clear double standard. Ultimately, all these decisions – whether in Washington, New Delhi, or Ankara – are a matter of sober interest politics. Those who engage in conflicts must expect to face the consequences and cannot complain about backlashes afterwards.
Furthermore, it is important to emphasize that India is itself arming Armenia and entering into strategic cooperation with Greece and Israel—all countries whose positions often run counter to Turkish interests. These developments are not new, but part of a long-term geopolitical orientation.
GoatsMilk
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The alliance and support of Pakistan is pretty old, in general Turkiye sees two "constant" allies Azerbaijan and Pakistan. Honestly its no surprise that Turkiye supports Pakistan, i think the only thing that changed recently was Erdogans open hostility towards India.
In general Turkiye always sided with Pakistan but i don't ever remember Turkish politicians shit talking India on the national stage constantly. I always felt this war wrong and truth be told i would prefer Turkiye to have moved in a way that could have bridged india and pakistan together. Because when we see the "large blocs" forming in the world, for example US, EU, China, a potentially larger Russia, the only block i felt Turkiye could have genuine relations with was the Pakistan, India, Bangladesh triangle.
As for involvement with Pakistan, probably to varying degrees. After America, Turkiye probably is involved in more conflicts on earth then any other nation on earth.
Oh yeah, in the early days of the Ukrainian war you could find footage where it shows Ukrainian operators striking a russian target, then you can hear Turkish insults being thrown. Implying that Turkish operators were in that room. There was also footage where you got Ukrainian soldiers on the battlefield, a guy is filming his squad and he turns to another soldier he goes to throw up the "grey wolf salute" then he catches himself and drops it moving away from the camera. You can find these sorts of footages from the first few weeks of that conflict. The idea that the Turkish military from day one would be embedded in Ukraine would not surprise me. Ukraine is a good friend and ally, but they are not considered brothers like Pakistan. It stands to reason that in a conflict Turkish soldiers would be present in some capacity on the side of Pakistan.
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If true this means that we are actually taking part in the conflict, at least indirectly, which is not good. This will bite us in the future one day.
There are a lot of Turkic people from Russia fighting for Ukraine, as well as Tartars. are you sure they are Turkish military?
Also, why would the Pakistanis need help? Pakistan developed the YIHA-III alongside Turkey; their military personnel should be familiar with its use. Ukraine didn't know how to use drones before the war started, but Pakistan should be experienced in drone warfare.
Not to mention, wouldn't it be public in Turkey if Turkey lost two soldiers? Isn't stuff like that made public pretty quickly in Turkey?
To add to my last point, how does Indian media know about the Turkish operators being killed? They keep saying a Source told India today, but never say the source. I wonder if it is some bullshit one person made up then they all repeated.
If Turkish soldiers are killed then the government needs to respond in some way.
Turkey has a trade deficit with India, and their boycott will make that worse i say Turkey should scrap the trade deal completely.
Tabmachine
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The TB2 are game-changing though, not as cutting-edge marvels, but as a democratization of access to UCAVs to deal with low-technology security challenges like guerilla groups. No country exports these drones at the scale of Turkiye afaik.India and Pakistan are Sending Turkish and Israeli Drones to War
Both India and Pakistan are armed to the teeth with a variety of lethal drones, including the Harop and TB2.
Turkish TB2 and Aknci drones were present in Pakistan-India war recently.
A lot of bad publicity is coming from Indian generated media about them.
But are there any impartial evaluation about how they performed and if their performance were substandard as claimed, were there any reasons why?
We all know that in airspaces where there are highly efficient AD systems, these drones are useless. They are also no good against interceptor fighter jets. (You can’t send boys to do a man’s job).
In airspaces like Syria, Libya, Afghanistan and Karabagh where the airspace is void of modern AD and the area in question is within LOS, these type of drones perform well. But when it comes to longer distances and satellite communication is needed and there are no EW to help them out they become vulnerable.
They are not Swiss Knives that can be used everywhere.
Any further insight?
In a conflict at the level of the Pakistan-India conflict, they have a constrained role as recon/decoys/swarming tools but any procurement officials worth their salt should be aware of that fact. I don't think that really diminishes the market for TB-2 very much, if at all. They still are the high-quality, economical tool for their target use case.
GoatsMilk
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The Russians have for hundreds of years been taking part in conflicts against us, they have in recent history supported terrorism against us and worked to destabilise us. If AK party didn't take part in this Ukrainian conflict that honestly would be treason of the highest order. I think in the future when all is said and done its going to become quite obvious that the Turkish military was engaged in this conflict to some degree. The extent of which will take many years to come out.
They wouldn't hide their identity. And its no coincidence that the style of drone warfare that Turkiye pioneered was critical in the early days of the war. Before the Ukraine war kicked off, the idea that Turkiye could end up in war with Russia was very real, be it syria, libya, or Azerbaijan. However since their global humiliation and total failure in Ukraine, Turks have quickly forgotten about the Russian threat. Their perceived as jokers currently, instead of a real threat.
Its not about whether Pakistan needs help or not its about leveraging the benefit of having an ally like Turkiye. A NATO trained nation that has been engaged in real conflicts where they have smoked the opposition using pioneering tactics. So many conflicts won in the past 10 years has had Turkiye involved to some degree. If I'm Pakistan im using that alliance. Like wise if Turkiye was ever going to enter a full on war with a nation like Russia or Isreal i would expect Turkiye to obtain some Pakistani nukes or to get the Pakistani army to deploy in Turkiye with them as insurance against our enemies.
Buts its interesting how in all these conflicts the enemies of the engaged parties are so bitter, angry and confident of Turkish involvement. Whether it be India or Armenia in recent times. The Indians have globally lost their shit against Turkiye over this conflict. Maybe Pakistan used zero percent help from Turkiye, but the Indians are behaving as if we were a critical element in this recent conflict.
When Russians bombed and killed 40 Turkish troops in idlib, where the Russians were advertising on their TV the strike, while also advertising how they bombed the ambulances sent in to retrieve the injured and dead, this AK party government tried to hide it. It was only on social media where it lit the public up like wild fire that forced erdogan to move on Idlib, ironically it was that retaliation that saved the current leaders of Syria today.
As for India, India is not perceived the way Russia is perceived. If indeed India did kill two Turkish people in this recent conflict between Pakistani and India it will just be perceived as a consequence of war.
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I doubt the claim that Turkish citizens were killed for the simple reason that if it were true, Indian media would plaster the evidence EVERYWHERE up-front. Pretty much anything to do with the Pakistani-Indian conflict is a he said, she said kind of deal 90% of the time so I wouldn't take it seriously unless solid proof is put forward or a Turkish military official confirms it down the line.
Tabmachine
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Q&A with Haluk Bayraktar - Atlantic Council
(link ^ )
It seems to me like they are really shooting for the stars, hoping to lead with a truly autonomous unmanned fighter in the long-term.
In the near-future though, is it really viable to have an independent unmanned fighter connected to a command center, playing a command and control function? I suppose if they can at least develop the planes ability to autonomously retreat and recover if its connection is jammed, that could work?
(link ^ )
It seems to me like they are really shooting for the stars, hoping to lead with a truly autonomous unmanned fighter in the long-term.
In the near-future though, is it really viable to have an independent unmanned fighter connected to a command center, playing a command and control function? I suppose if they can at least develop the planes ability to autonomously retreat and recover if its connection is jammed, that could work?
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I'm pretty sure Baykar's drones have had this capability, albeit to a limited extent, for a while now since I recall an interview with a Ukrainian drone pilot a couple of years ago where he mentioned losing connection with TB-2s in the field and having them fly back to base later on their own, damaged but still functional. So no surprise that Baykar is doubling down on this approach.
