TR UAV/UCAV Programs | Anka - series | Kızılelma | TB - series

[Zafer]

There is this mystery with TB2 about what engine it is using. There is a TEI engine with the name PG115 which seems to be custom made for TB2. So is TB2 still using Rotax engines or is it using this TEI engine which had 15.000 flight hours under its belt a year ago.

 

[triangle]

Why a higher Akinci production compared to Aksungur ? Only one of those two have domestic engine atm, and that's Aksungur, so shouldn't production rate be higher for Aksungur ?

Don't worry about the Ukrainians embargoing engines for Turkey. The political and strategic ties are too deep for that to happen.

Of course I am not taking presidential favoritism into consideration.

Well, you should. Bear in mind that it was mostly TB2's that saved Erdogans and TSK's face in Idlib.

As I see it Akinci will be tested thoroughly and will be kept ready, but the workhorse will be TB2 and Aksungur and perhaps even ANKA.

Could be, I speculate also

 

[Mis_TR_Like]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1306552665283932160

20000ft altitude, 12 MAM-L munition and 28h duration...

It's easy to overlook this as just another small step forward. But we are witnessing a major change which will completely reshape the Turkish Air Force. From around 300 active fixed wing combat aircraft that are all multi role, it will double soon (there are currently 170 UCAVs in Turkey's inventory), half will be reserved for air-to-air (F-16s and F-4s) meanwhile the other half (drones) will take care of ground targets.

Turkey's airforce has multi-role fighters, but no dedicated bombers for a long time. Turkish drones very quickly evolved from reconnaissance platforms, to light anti-infantry UCAVs, and now essentially they are turning into TuAF's fully-fledged bombers. It's safe to say that these drones are no longer just a small luxury for the Turkish airforce. They are serious combat aircraft which are forming Turkey's air-to-ground/attack aircraft fleet.

A single Aksungur or Akinci can:

• Wipe out a dozen clusters of infantry (or more depending on mounts)
• Destroy a dozen or more armoured vehicles (or more depending on mounts)
• Annihilate fortified positions and bases with guided heavy munitions (HGK, LGK & KGK)
• Destroy or disable surface vessels with SOM cruise missiles

Of course the problem with the current drones is that they are slow, and therefore quite susceptible to getting shot down. However with electronic warfare systems blinding enemy radars and F-16s providing protection against enemy aircraft, drones aren't the sitting ducks they're made out to be.

Once the Goksungur is introduced the Turkish Air Force will have fast, unnamed, bomber aircraft... F-16s will never be needed again for any air-to-ground missions. Essentially, the Turkish Air Force's combat fleet will be divided into F-16s as pure air-to-air combat vehicles, meanwhile drones will take over all air-to-ground operations. This will free up the F-16s until the TFX arrives, so maybe that'll mean less maintenance.

Overall, the introduction of the Aksungur and Akinci will be a major milestone. They will take care of ground targets, meanwhile F-16s will act as their escorts when necessary.

 

[bsruzm]

I am really interested with Aksungur's maritme capabilities...

 

[Saithan]

Every UAV platform has its usage and its price. You don't want to risk a more expensive Aksungur if you can do the job with a more affordable TB2. Also logistics must be different. TB2 is 12 meters wide where Aksungur is 24 meters. Aksungur will do coastal surveillance best among others as it has bigger payload along with longer endurance and satellite communications. So those of you who want to waste TB2 for the sake of Aksungur are not getting promotion this year.

I can understand using it for Coast, border patrol and such due to higher payload, but I was thinking of missions requiring deep strike capability. While it's true that TB2 made a significant difference along with ANKA, and the pricetag of TB2 is affordable (I think it was around 6-8 mio. usd), but the range is an issue.

Which is something I've pointed out several times before, if only the range could be increase to 200-250 km it's value would not just double it with rise exponentially.

I mean Karayel has longer range, but it hasn't landed a single deal with TSK other than lease of one...

No one here is talking about wasting any of our war potential, but we must always look forward to improve and raise our efficiency.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

It's easy to overlook this as just another small step forward. But we are witnessing a major change which will completely reshape the Turkish Air Force. From around 300 active fixed wing combat aircraft that are all multi role, it will double soon (there are currently 170 UCAVs in Turkey's inventory), half will be reserved for air-to-air (F-16s and F-4s) meanwhile the other half (drones) will take care of ground targets.

Turkey's airforce has multi-role fighters, but no dedicated bombers for a long time. Turkish drones very quickly evolved from reconnaissance platforms, to light anti-infantry UCAVs, and now essentially they are turning into TuAF's fully-fledged bombers. It's safe to say that these drones are no longer just a small luxury for the Turkish airforce. They are serious combat aircraft which are forming Turkey's air-to-ground/attack aircraft fleet.

A single Aksungur or Akinci can:

• Wipe out a dozen clusters of infantry (or more depending on mounts)
• Destroy a dozen or more armoured vehicles (or more depending on mounts)
• Annihilate fortified positions and bases with guided heavy munitions (HGK, LGK & KGK)
• Destroy or disable surface vessels with SOM cruise missiles

Of course the problem with the current drones is that they are slow, and therefore quite susceptible to getting shot down. However with electronic warfare systems blinding enemy radars and F-16s providing protection against enemy aircraft, drones aren't the sitting ducks they're made out to be.

Once the Goksungur is introduced the Turkish Air Force will have fast, unnamed, bomber aircraft... F-16s will never be needed again for any air-to-ground missions. Essentially, the Turkish Air Force's combat fleet will be divided into F-16s as pure air-to-air combat vehicles, meanwhile drones will take over all air-to-ground operations. This will free up the F-16s until the TFX arrives, so maybe that'll mean less maintenance.

Overall, the introduction of the Aksungur and Akinci will be a major milestone. They will take care of ground targets, meanwhile F-16s will act as their escorts when necessary.

The capabilities of our drones are evolving and the missions they are gng to be charged will be more difficult in every new drone program. Today, Aksungur represents long endurance but slow speed bombers, while Akinci will be relatively faster but having shorter endurance drone with the capability of carrying more heavier weapon payload for not only AG but also AA missions. These drones in TAF will be the supplementary of each other.

Next platforms to be revealed will carry out more difficult missions but they will proceed to fill the deficiency of each other on the combat environment.

Goksungur will be the turbofan-powered long-endurance bomber of TAF but MIUS will be a stealth jet drone that will be faster than Göksungur but It will have a relatively lower endurance figure than Göksungur. MIUS with its design lines will perform most difficult SEAD missions and join into AA engagements with foreign manned/unmanned fighters while jet-powered Goksungur is going to wipe the floor on enemy terrains.

 

[Bayraktar TB2]

I think they can work in tandem. TB2 lazes or gives coordinates of the target while in the harms way and aksungur drops TEBER-82 (max range 28km) or KGK(100km+) to destroy the target like an f16. Hopefully Göksungur supersonic drone will make its first flight this year and be the loyal wingman of our manned supersonic jets.

 

[Glass🚬]

This carrying capacity and endurance replaces 3 TB2/ANKA's. This can destroy a company sized armored/mechanized/artillery formation.

Once the jet-powered uav´s are finished, TAI and Baykar should build something in the size and form of B-21 Raider as an unmanned strategic drone.

 

[Sinan]

Every UAV platform has its usage and its price. You don't want to risk a more expensive Aksungur if you can do the job with a more affordable TB2. Also logistics must be different. TB2 is 12 meters wide where Aksungur is 24 meters. Aksungur will do coastal surveillance best among others as it has bigger payload along with longer endurance and satellite communications. So those of you who want to waste TB2 for the sake of Aksungur are not getting promotion this year.

Exactly, i wouldn't send Aksungurs to hunt down Pantsirs.

 

[triangle]

There is this mystery with TB2 about what engine it is using. There is a TEI engine with the name PG115 which seems to be custom made for TB2. So is TB2 still using Rotax engines or is it using this TEI engine which had 15.000 flight hours under its belt a year ago.

The PG115 is presumbly used to re-engine the heron's. It could be used on the TB2 but we have no confirmation on that. The TB2 uses a Rotax engine from Canada.

 

[Zafer]

The PG115 is presumbly used to re-engine the heron's. It could be used on the TB2 but we have no confirmation on that. The TB2 uses a Rotax engine from Canada.

It maybe a good idea to re-engine Herons but it is not a good idea to develop en engine to re-engine the half dozen (?) Herons alone. I would guess the TB2s will be fitted with PG115 down the road if not have been fitted already. TB2s fitted with a 115hp engine instead of 100hp is probably what is behind the TB2s' new payload rating of 150kg (I have seen recently) instead of the outdated 70kg. Correct me if I am wrong on these numbers.

 

[triangle]

It maybe a good idea to re-engine Herons but it is not a good idea to develop en engine to re-engine the half dozen (?) Herons alone. I would guess the TB2s will be fitted with PG115 down the road if not have been fitted already. TB2s fitted with a 115hp engine instead of 100hp is probably what is behind the TB2s' new payload rating of 150kg (I have seen recently) instead of the outdated 70kg. Correct me if I am wrong on these numbers.

Yes, I also have problems with the theory to use the PG115 to re-engine the herons. It most probably will be used on the TB2.

Do you have a source for that new payload rating for the TB2? I haven't seen or heard anything about an increase in payload for the TB2.

 

[Zafer]

Yes, I also has problems with the theory to use the PG115 to re-engine the herons. It most probably will be used on the TB2.

Do you have a source for that new payload rating for the TB2? I haven't seen or heard anything about an increase in payload for the TB2.

Baykar Savunma internet sitesi

Right when I was trying to get the link from a news site I have noticed that Baykar website already posted the payload capacity as 150kg.
No wonder TB2s are working wonders lately. They also posted engine power as 100hp.

 

[Balamir]

Temel Kotil also said that AKSUNGUR will enter the inventory. It would be stupid not to buy such an SİHA. Especially the EA / ES derivative will be used. In addition, the Turkish Navy will use Aselsan Sonobuoy and AKSUNGUR to detect submarines.

Again, there is a competition like AKINCI or AKSUNGUR.
I've written before, I'm writing again. TAI is Turkey's strategic aviation hub.

AKINCI is the flagship for Baykar.
It is an intermediate system developed for AKSUNGUR TAI over ANKA in a short time and it is very good in terms of price / performance. TAI's target is loyal wingman and swarm jet UAVs.

 

[Brave Janissary]

I have a 2 critical problem ?

1- What is the minnimum safe altittude for transition to horizontal flight on vstol aircraft ?
2- İf that altitude is X , what is the maximmum take of weight of Baykar cezeri until X ? They can reach 2000 meter altitude with 250 kg mtow .

I asked it for these reason ;

We can work a that kind of ucav upon cezeri. I used S-97 raider for show you concept bod think a body more lighter. Tail rotor will be pg-115 or pd-170 .

He can ascend until 100-200 meter and after they can open his pd-170 engine or like that . Concept is that ;

İf he can ascend and land with 1000-1500 kg aroun anka like uav we can integrate him 2x bozdoğan and he can fire it with help of mini aesa radared version of him and also he can be very deathly with 2x thrusted and ins+radar seekered kuzgun it will be good ship hunter. Also he can carry multiple mam-l, bozok etc for land attack also.

So it will be very good low cost attack for for anadolu. On the other vtol capability is important. We can be have much more uav which capable long range strike or aa capability. But if yours air bases and landing runway is hited they nothing important.

Vtol aa and long range strike capability with mobile command posts is important. That mean yours have second strike capability againts suprise first strikes with maked by b-2 and f-117 kind stealth bombers.

 

[Mustafa27]

Aksungur Endurance Testing:
Aksungur flew 28 hours with 12 MAM-L

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1306572769128308737

 

[Yoyo]

Guys, it's not a nuke. That's pretty much what a Mk-82 (225 kg HE) blast looks like from the air. Here's a vid shot from the ground for comparison:

That blast will trash anything standing within a 50m radius, including tanks. If you're standing 500m away and no shrapnel hits you. the blast wave will still knock the wind out of you and likely cause inner ear damage. It will break windows up to 1000m away.

For bigger targets we've got bigger bombs.

 

[Ronin]

I wonder if the control systems are similar, it would be a very nice thing if they were. Also I hope if we are going to replace our tb2 fleet that it'll be 1-to-1 so we get over 100+ Aksungur.

TB2 can be sold as battle proven 2nd hand to our allies, or used for training new generations of TSK drone warriors. Tunesia might be intered in some of them.

We just need to battle test them... YPG and PKK are prime targets.

Would it be prudent to say ANKA might be used by MIT or such for intelligence gathering ?

Personally I think ANKA makes much more sense for surveillance missions than TB2, our forests, mountains, seas and what not. Though the pricetag is a bit high.

I have read akıncı can control several tb2. So the range limitations would be decreased significantly. Can someone confirm?

Akıncı controlled via SATCOM and tb2 controlled via akıncı as transmitter would be a force multiplier. Imagine several tb2 as vanguard taking out pantsirs to clear the area and akıncı do the big work. If that's the case we should definitely keep tb2 in inventory.

 

[Test7]

Yeah this is possible with Relay(role). Large military-specific systems offer a number of additional improvements in communications capabilities. Many include wide-band satellite communications (SATCOM) that expand the amount and extend the range of transmittable data, providing distant ground stations with real-time ISR. Like some baseline systems, high-end systems are generally capable of line-of-sight communications with other platforms operating in their area and, for this reason, are often employed as communications relays.

 

[Saithan]

Yeah this is possible with Relay(role). Large military-specific systems offer a number of additional improvements in communications capabilities. Many include wide-band satellite communications (SATCOM) that expand the amount and extend the range of transmittable data, providing distant ground stations with real-time ISR. Like some baseline systems, high-end systems are generally capable of line-of-sight communications with other platforms operating in their area and, for this reason, are often employed as communications relays.

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If we could get ANKA to fly higher 60-70-000 feet we could have a dedicated C&C unit