Live Conflict Ukraine-Russia War

[Gary]

See my friend, we both try to be pragmatic in our own ways. But to me this is fundamental that we stand by our values in an existential crisis. In fact those values maybe the only thing that differentiate us from our enemy in the end, and makes us who we are. Hence giving us the much needed moral boost to continue fighting a conventionally superior enemy against all odds.

As we all know, one of the core competence of successful warfighting is to 'know yourself and know your enemy'.

(As fighting power consist of three components, Conceptual, Moral and Physical,) I believe this applies to the moral component as much as it does to the others two.

Back at school, we are taught that for every action, there must be an equal force of reaction. This is the law of the world that people choose to ignore. Why do people transgress? why do we have dictators like Pharaoh who torture without mercy?

This is because these people grow accustomed to doing actions without any repercussions. They know they could escalate infinitely and life will be exactly the same as normal. This is why bullies don't stop when we "politely" ask them to stop, bullies stop when we stand up our ground and punch them in the face.

That punch in the face is what an equal reaction is, and a reminder. Some sort of alarm to remind him of the consequence/reaction of his action. Don't get me wrong, I'm writing this not because I exclusively despise the Russians, I have no qualms either seeing kids evaporated...in London. And when the time comes, these people too will face the consequences of their actions. Maybe not them but certainly their sons or their son's son.

But the idea of just standing down and expecting people to stop is delusional. The concept of Tit-for-Tat is taught by god himself.

 

[Relic]

Back at school, we are taught that for every action, there must be an equal force of reaction. This is the law of the world that people choose to ignore. Why do people transgress? why do we have dictators like Pharaoh who torture without mercy?

This is because these people grow accustomed to doing actions without any repercussions. They know they could escalate infinitely and life will be exactly the same as normal. This is why bullies don't stop when we "politely" ask them to stop, bullies stop when we stand up our ground and punch them in the face.

That punch in the face is what an equal reaction is, and a reminder. Some sort of alarm to remind him of the consequence/reaction of his action. Don't get me wrong, I'm writing this not because I exclusively despise the Russians, I have no qualms either seeing kids evaporated...in London. And when the time comes, these people too will face the consequences of their actions. Maybe not them but certainly their sons or their son's son.

But the idea of just standing down and expecting people to stop is delusional. The concept of Tit-for-Tat is taught by god himself.

View attachment 61646

Bingo!

Wars of history were not won by attempting to achieve some kind of moral high ground...

"People sleep peacefully in their beds at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geore Orwell

When you're dealing with an invader, especially a powerful one, you must stand ready to do deplorable and inhumane things to ensure your survival.

When Britain sent 800 bombers to Germany and firebombed Dresden, turning upwards of 25,000 women and children of the city into liquid as they tried to hide in bomb shelters, that wasn't about being moral. It was about taking actions neccessary to win the war and prove to the aggressor that you would go to horrendous lengths to ensure their demise.

When USA dropped atomic bombs on Nagasaki and Hiroshima and vaporized 100,000-200,000 Japanese citizens, that was in response to Japan's suprise attack on Pearl Harbor and subsequent transgressions throughout the Pacific. Imperial Japan started the war and the Americans used an act of unimaginable cruelty to plunge Japan into despair and force them to bend the knee. That wasn't about achieving moral high ground, it was about saving thousands of Americans lives by not attempting a conventional attack on mainland Japan and ensuring a Japanese defeat in the process.

 

[Relic]

Sweden has announced a new $200 Million usd defense package for Ukraine, consisting of mostly artillery shells and ammunition.

Sweden pledges more military aid to Ukraine, considers fighter jets

Sweden will send Ukraine a new military support package worth 2.2 billion crowns ($199 million) - consisting mainly of artillery ammunition - and is looking into sending fighter jets, Defence Minister Pal Jonson said.

www.reuters.com

 

[Gary]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1710280187521192013

 

[Ecderha]

putin thug and his mafia circle.
Africa
Budanov: "Ukraine will destroy ruzzian war criminals anywhere in the world."

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1710244266759352663

 

[Ecderha]

Just uaoo!

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1709916491271815516

 

[Relic]

News starting to break that Russians have shot down yet another of their SU-35 aircraft. This time the shoot down occurred near Mariupol and video evidence is showing up.

Friendly fire incidents happen in war, but this is getting downright embarrassing for the Russians. Likely more uneducated, deeply intoxicated, trigger happy orcs operating AD systems. One can only hope that an experienced pilot was killed in the incident as well!

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1710288372994814073

 

[UkroTurk]

 

[Gary]

Shoigu visits the UAC plant that produces Su-34 bombers, I count around 3-4 new Su-34(M) in the production line.

@blackjack, still no sight of the Pika-M equipped Su-34(M)

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1710175196701769856

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1710265980247793878

 

[Gary]

Where are those guys counting remaining Russian missile stocks (?)

Ukraine says dozens of people killed in Russian attack on Kharkiv village

Officials say a boy, age six, among those killed in attack on Hroza village, where residents were attending a wake.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[Gary]

A casual reminder about the unpredictable nature of war

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1710550990825324744

 

[Gary]

Why is Zelensky authorizing raids on Belgorod, it doesn't help other than make Putin mad and retaliating by bombing their children with Kalibrs. Zelensky is not interested in peace he's just interested in power, war means no election.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1710637489705099776

 

[Relic]

USA is planning a new arms package for Ukraine, which will be disclosed this week. The package will come from the $5.4 Billion usd of remaining Presidential Drawdown Authority that Joe Biden has remaining from the previous bill enacted by Congress. Expect the donation to be in the $200-300 million usd range and to included artillery shells and armored vehicles.

USA can continue to send bi-weekly packages of the sort until the end of the first quarter of 2024. They are also exploring their ability to send weapons through a seperate state department budget that has already been congressionally approved.

US readies new Ukraine arms package despite tumult in Congress

The Biden administration is expected to announce a new weapons package for Ukraine next week as the Pentagon continues to use up funds discovered due to a multi-billion dollar accounting error, U.S. officials said.

www.reuters.com

 

[UkroTurk]

❗️Biden plans to request from Congress the largest package of military and humanitarian aid to Ukraine, which should be enough until the beginning of 2025, — The Telegraph with reference to sources

The size of the package may reach 100 billion dollars.

"The idea of a big package is strongly supported by many in the administration. Supporters of Ukraine want this to be a one-time big bill and not have to deal with it until the next election," said a source familiar with the discussion.

 

[Woland]

Why is Zelensky authorizing raids on Belgorod, it doesn't help other than make Putin mad and retaliating by bombing their children with Kalibrs. Zelensky is not interested in peace he's just interested in power, war means no election.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1710637489705099776

Because it shatters the Russian population's understanding of what this war means for them. Being able to strike Russian territory destroys the narrative that Putin is protecting them and this war will not affect ordinary Russians.

 

[Woland]

❗️Biden plans to request from Congress the largest package of military and humanitarian aid to Ukraine, which should be enough until the beginning of 2025, — The Telegraph with reference to sources

The size of the package may reach 100 billion dollars.

"The idea of a big package is strongly supported by many in the administration. Supporters of Ukraine want this to be a one-time big bill and not have to deal with it until the next election," said a source familiar with the discussion.

This would be a strange development. Considering US aid to Ukraine has grown politicized and less popular than before, I don't see the Biden administration asking for such a big package at this moment. Yes, the majority both in congress and among the US population continues to support aid to Ukraine, but $100 billion would invite a lot of criticism. It would be easier to pass several smaller packages spread out over time.

Edit: then again, one package might be easier to pass than numerous because it would only invite one news cycle rather than several. It would likely pass Congress if brought to the floor either way. Aid to Ukraine remains massively in the US's interests. Spending 5% of the US's annual defense budget to decimate the Russian army without a single American life lost is an incredible investment.

 

[Gary]

Because it shatters the Russian population's understanding of what this war means for them. Being able to strike Russian territory destroys the narrative that Putin is protecting them and this war will not affect ordinary Russians.

It's actually a sarcastic question

 

[Woland]

It's actually a sarcastic question

My bad, I didn't realize. If you want, you can delete your post and I'll delete mine to keep this topic clean.

 

[UkroTurk]

This would be a strange development. Considering US aid to Ukraine has grown politicized and less popular than before, I don't see the Biden administration asking for such a big package at this moment. Yes, the majority both in congress and among the US population continues to support aid to Ukraine, but $100 billion would invite a lot of criticism. It would be easier to pass several smaller packages spread out over time.

Edit: then again, one package might be easier to pass than numerous because it would only invite one news cycle rather than several. It would likely pass Congress if brought to the floor either way. Aid to Ukraine remains massively in the US's interests. Spending 5% of the US's annual defense budget to decimate the Russian army without a single American life lost is an incredible investment.

But it won't be financial aid in cash. The worth of used weapons, fighters, tanks etc from US army stocks will cost 100 billion. So it won't bring burden on American tax payers.

I think US tax payers would agree to send old used 100 f-16 C which worth 20-30billions .

300-400 old used m1abrams worth also some money but they are old in US inventory.

 

[Relic]

This would be a strange development. Considering US aid to Ukraine has grown politicized and less popular than before, I don't see the Biden administration asking for such a big package at this moment. Yes, the majority both in congress and among the US population continues to support aid to Ukraine, but $100 billion would invite a lot of criticism. It would be easier to pass several smaller packages spread out over time.

Edit: then again, one package might be easier to pass than numerous because it would only invite one news cycle rather than several. It would likely pass Congress if brought to the floor either way. Aid to Ukraine remains massively in the US's interests. Spending 5% of the US's annual defense budget to decimate the Russian army without a single American life lost is an incredible investment.

$100 Billion usd in aid would come with at least $60 billion usd in Presidential Drawdown Authority and USAI Procurement. Combined with what the EU will provide Ukraine throughout 2024 that would push Russia to the absolute brink of their ability achieve land grabs in Ukraine. $100 Billion usd, especially when we're talking about depreciated value of weapons in the U.S. inventories, is an absolutely ridiculous amount armor, ordinance and air power heading Ukraine's way...

I mean... We could be talking about the following (among plenty of other items) over the course of 2024...

- 200 M1A1 Abram MBTs
- 500 Bradley IFVs
- 500 Stryker APCs
- 100 M109 Howitzers
- 24 F-16 Fighters jets
- 2 Patriot Missile Batteries
- 2000 PAC 2 and PAC 3 missiles
- 2000 AIM-120 AMRAAMs
- 5000 AIM-9 Sidewinders
- 750,000 155MM artillery shells
- 250,000 105MM artillery shells
- 10,000 GMLRS
- 5000 Javelins
- 10,000 AT4s and M72 LAW
- 300 JASSM cruise missiles
- 200 ATCAMS
- 1000 500lb bombs
- 1000 1000lb bombs
- 5000 kamikaze drones
- 5000 Surveillance drones

That would be just scratching the surface of what they could send for $100,000 Billion usd.