Live Conflict Ukraine-Russia War

Ravager

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This is a thread of Ukro-russo war isn't ?? Were i visiting the wrong thread ?? Just because the " supposedly " protagonist were kinda beaten down at the moment . It doesn't mean it has to transformed into something else just for a sake of pride's vanity ...
 

MaciekRS

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Poland has a now government . In case of Ukraine support nothing changes, thay have our support.
"
WARSAW, Poland -- New Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk said Tuesday that his government will mobilize to keep the world committed to helping Ukraine.

Tusk said it hurts him to hear that Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has to keep trying to persuade world leaders about the need to continue supporting Kyiv’s struggle against Russian aggression.

He said it will be a priority for his coalition government to persuade leaders that they need to continue to help Ukraine defend itself, and that is also in the interests of the free world.

He said he would “loudly and decisively demand the full mobilization of the free world, the Western world, to help Ukraine in this war.”

“There is no alternative to this way of thinking. I can no longer listen to some European politicians from other Western countries who say something about being tired of the situation in Ukraine. They are tired. They say it to President Zelenskyy’s face that they no longer have the strength, that they are exhausted.” Tusk said."
 

UkroTurk

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Gary

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Maybe this has something to do with the plummeting democracy in Ukraine.

GAwCqx_WoAIKih0
 

Deliorman

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Maybe this has something to do with the plummeting democracy in Ukraine.

GAwCqx_WoAIKih0


Ukraine is a country in war, that is under attack every day for the past 600 days and they are under Martial law. Generally you don't hold elections when your country is under Military rule because first it won't be fair, second- nobody in the country even cares about politics when the survival of the homeland and it's people is at stake.

But yeah, continue talking how democratic Russia is and how huge of a dictatorship Ukraine is.
 

Gary

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Ukraine is a country in war, that is under attack every day for the past 600 days and they are under Martial law. Generally you don't hold elections when your country is under Military rule because first it won't be fair, second- nobody in the country even cares about politics when the survival of the homeland and it's people is at stake.

But yeah, continue talking how democratic Russia is and how huge of a dictatorship Ukraine is.
And Russia is not at war ? Only Ukraine seems to have all the burden of having the nation's sons and daughters killed , cities bombed,. Only Ukraine have to worry what will the outcome of the war be, only Ukraine have to worry about losses in equipment and productions ?

Generally your idealism is only as good as the practical steps you take to bring it into reality. While having a vision or set of ideals is essential, the true measure of their impact lies in their implementation. It's easy to articulate lofty goals, but the challenge lies in translating them into tangible actions that yield positive outcomes.

It's easy to talk freedom this, freedom that, liberalism this and that, but the true test of your bullshit comes under pressure. Russia the poster child of authoritarianism doesn't crack when it comes to democracy, Ukraine does.

Second, because the stated reason of defending Ukraine is defending democracy, doesn't it make sense to abandon it once they abandon democracy as well ? Anyone thinks the same ?
 

Deliorman

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And Russia is not at war ? Only Ukraine seems to have all the burden of having the nation's sons and daughters killed , cities bombed,. Only Ukraine have to worry what will the outcome of the war be, only Ukraine have to worry about losses in equipment and productions ?

Generally your idealism is only as good as the practical steps you take to bring it into reality. While having a vision or set of ideals is essential, the true measure of their impact lies in their implementation. It's easy to articulate lofty goals, but the challenge lies in translating them into tangible actions that yield positive outcomes.

It's easy to talk freedom this, freedom that, liberalism this and that, but the true test of your bullshit comes under pressure. Russia the poster child of authoritarianism doesn't crack when it comes to democracy, Ukraine does.

Second, because the stated reason of defending Ukraine is defending democracy, doesn't it make sense to abandon it once they abandon democracy as well ? Anyone thinks the same ?


Even according to Russia they are not in a war but in a "Special Military Operation". If you call it a "War" you can go to jail so be careful.

Russia is the one that is waging a war on Ukraine- war that is being fought on Ukrainian territory.
99% of Russians don't feel the consequences of the war: they don't have their cities destroyed, they don't get bombed, they don't live like refugees by the millions, they don't have problems with the heating in the winter, they don't have their schools closed down or receive humanitarian aid etc. For them it is all "business as usual" and life goes on. In Ukraine there is destruction and death and suffering for 600 days now but you act like you don't see a difference.
 

Gary

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Even according to Russia they are not in a war but in a "Special Military Operation". If you call it a "War" you can go to jail so be careful.
I mean the U.S slapped the 'freedom' sticker when they invaded Iraq in 2003… Special Military Operations sounds just fine, in fact Special Military Operations is actually representative of the nature of the conflict.

The word 'special' implies that this particular military op is out of the ordinary, and there's every reasons to believe that conflict this size is not in the ordinary.

The fact that Putin jails people for using the word 'war' is something many people has yet to be grateful of, considering Russia is a nuclear state and the sheer amounts of protests by Russian ordinary people urging to launch nuclear strike early in the war.

Guy is preventing the world into a wasteland
Russia is the one that is waging a war on Ukraine- war that is being fought on Ukrainian territory.
99% of Russians don't feel the consequences of the war: they don't have their cities destroyed, they don't get bombed, they don't live like refugees by the millions, they don't have problems with the heating in the winter, they don't have their schools closed down or receive humanitarian aid etc. For them it is all "business as usual" and life goes on. In Ukraine there is destruction and death and suffering for 600 days now but you act like you don't see a difference.
Had it not for the Ukrainian military regularly updating how good their air defense are at shooting Shaheds and Iskanders, I would have believed you. But the fact is, Ukrainians are living in tranquility under the protection of Western supplied air defense. There's no reason to turn authoritarian.

On the other hand, just a quick look on Pro Ukraine accounts and it's easy to find footage of large fires, explosions in Russian cities due to the war.
Yet they still have a functioning democracy.

Weird stuff. Makes you wonder if the West is really that good in propaganda.
 

Relic

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USA 🇺🇸 announced new $200 million usd defense package for Ukraine. It was announced by Biden package on live television, with Zelensky in attendance. For those deeply concerned that USA is going to run out of drawdown authority funding for Ukraine in the near future, USA still has $4.4 Billion usd worth of approved drawdown left, before they'll require additional funding to be passed. Therefore, they have until at least February / March before they seriously need to be concerned about running out of money.

Contents of the latest package include the following...

- Additional GMLRS for HIMARS
- Additional HAARM missiles
- Additional Javelin anti-armor systems
- Additional AT4 anti-armor rockets
- Additional 155mm artillery shells
- Additional 105mm artillery shells
- Additional AIM-9 air defense missiles
- Air defense system components
- Additional TOW missiles
- 4 million rounds of ammunition
- Munitions for obstacle clearing
- Spare parts and other equipment
- Equipment to protect critical infrastructure

 
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Nilgiri

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Conducting or not conducting elections especially when own territory is under occupation/facing war directly is not hallmark in of itself of democracy functioning or not.

The UK under Churchill's war cabinet delayed elections till 1945 when the war result was ascertained. There were provisions for this within the law....given the war emergency. Similar to what I would imagine Ukraine has declared.

In the US constitution (given its actually explicitly written unlike the UK one) the provisions are much more limited. Elections were indeed conducted during the civil war, though of limited credibility in the end given polling could not be done in southern states under its CSA regime.

This was the only war I can think of where US territorial integrity was intensely contested and fought over after it's nationstate was set up.

Other wars of intensity concerning the US were across oceans on other continents....territorial integrity was not a concern....so elections proceeded during WW2 for example (both 1942 midterm and 1944 general) and were credible (unlike the civil war) being held in all states as usual.

Totalitarian regimes like Germany under the NSDAP (1933 - 1945) also ran elections in, iirc, 1936 and 1938 (peacetime). Doesn't mean they are credible displays of democracy. Same war emergency effect came into play after it (given threats to German territorial integrity the NSDAP both perceived and faced) that got rid of these perfunctory elections too.

So conducting elections during war time and its link to deeper democratic credibility/institutionalization is not direct one. More context needed.
 

Gary

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Very undemocratic move if true, in their own land they're doing their best to sabotage democracy and pave way for one man strong-man rule under Volodymyr Zelensky, now they wanted to extend those authoritarianism on areas they don't control.

Sums up the sabotage of democracy in Europe, but then again I don't expect anything less.


KYIV, UKRAINE —​
Ukraine on Saturday strongly condemned Russia’s plans to hold presidential elections on occupied Ukrainian territory in the spring.​
Ukraine’s Foreign Ministry called the planned elections “null and void” and pledged that any international observers sent to monitor them would “face criminal responsibility.”​
Lawmakers in Russia on Thursday set the country’s 2024 presidential election for March 17.​
Russian President Vladimir Putin on Friday moved to prolong his repressive and unyielding grip on Russia for at least another six years, announcing his candidacy in the election. He is all but certain to win.​
Russian authorities plan to arrange voting in Donetsk, Luhansk, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson — territories Moscow illegally annexed from Ukraine in September last year but does not fully control — together with the Crimean Peninsula, which Russia illegally annexed in 2014. The announcement of the presidential election follows local elections for Russian-installed legislatures in occupied parts of Ukraine in September. The votes were denounced as a sham by Kyiv and the West.​
“We call on the international community to resolutely condemn Russia’s intention to hold presidential elections in the occupied Ukrainian territories, and to impose sanctions on those involved in their organization and conduct,” Ukraine’s Foreign Ministry said.​
 

MaciekRS

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Very undemocratic move if true, in their own land they're doing their best to sabotage democracy and pave way for one man strong-man rule under Volodymyr Zelensky, now they wanted to extend those authoritarianism on areas they don't control.

Sums up the sabotage of democracy in Europe, but then again I don't expect anything less.


KYIV, UKRAINE —​
Ukraine on Saturday strongly condemned Russia’s plans to hold presidential elections on occupied Ukrainian territory in the spring.​
Ukraine’s Foreign Ministry called the planned elections “null and void” and pledged that any international observers sent to monitor them would “face criminal responsibility.”​
If you knew something about russia and elections you would thow that EVERY elections that they are doing on other country soil is just a fake show .
Stupid Roosevelt and Truman also believed uncle Stalin and in effect Stalin took whole eastern Europe for himself "in true democratic elections"
We, people born in eastern Europe know exactly how those "elections" looks.
 

Gary

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If you knew something about russia and elections you would thow that EVERY elections that they are doing on other country soil is just a fake show .
Stupid Roosevelt and Truman also believed uncle Stalin and in effect Stalin took whole eastern Europe for himself "in true democratic elections"
We, people born in eastern Europe know exactly how those "elections" looks.
I might not know in detail about Russia, but I know what an election is, it's basically a system of deceit, lies and political sabotage that only give the common peasant as sense of power they never actually have. It's all the same these elections everywhere.

The problem is when you have a country that is supposedly the champion of this system are unable to accept that a country long thought to be the anti-thesis of these "democracy" that are suddenly being the forefront of enabling democarcy in their own country and in disputed territory. Not only that this champion of democracy unable to practice democracy they find it hard that people's living outside areas of their control are now able to vote.

There's no bigger irony than that.
 

Relic

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Good news on the air defense front for Ukraine!

The German 🇩🇪 Luftwaffe confirmed today that they have delivered their second planned Patriot missile defense battery to Ukraine, on schedule for winter operations. The battery consists of 8 launchers and a fire control statation, as well as an estimated 60 PAC 2/3 interceptors.



Meanwhile, Norway 🇳🇴 announced that they will provide Ukraine with 8 additional NASAMS firing units and 4 additional NASAMS control units. They will also send an undisclosed number of interceptor missiles along with the systems.

 
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Gary

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As planes and ships and guns and shells are produced, your government, with its defense experts, can then determine how best to use them to defend this hemisphere. The decision as to how much shall be sent abroad and how much shall remain at home must be made on the basis of our overall military necessities.

We must be the great arsenal of democracy.
(Roosevelt)

 

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Footage from the Ukrainian M2A2 ODS Bradley infantry fighting vehicle, made in the USA, captured by Russian units during the fighting in the Avdiivka direction. The Bradley infantry fighting vehicle was used by the 47th separate mechanized brigade of the Ukrainian army and was knocked out on the northern flank of Avdiivka. As previously reported, Bradley infantry fighting vehicles could not evacuate Russian units to the rear for a long time; this was hampered by the Ukrainian army and the poor condition of the roads. As a result, this was done with the help of two military tractors. As can be seen from the video, the Bradley infantry fighting vehicle was quickly restored and is already on the move, and the external appearance of the armored personnel carrier does not look bad. It is not reported whether Russian units of the Bradley infantry fighting vehicle will be used in combat operations, or will be sent to factories for research.

 

Relic

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Per sources inside the Ukrainian Army, Ukraine 🇺🇦 now has 30 2S22 Bohdana self-propelled, 155mm howitzers in its inventory. With part creation and component sourcing in allied countries, Ukraine's alleged 400 person production operation is yielding 6 new howitzers each month.

 
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